Day 5—"workplace books." I'm interpreting this prompt as "sexism and/or women's issues in the workplace."
These deal with workplace harassment, equal pay, patriarchal corporate structure, male-reinforcing hiring patterns & how to combat these things. ?
What Works presents skills workplaces can utilize to hire & treat women fairly. Because of Sex outlines the start of workplace sex harassment laws. ??⚖
#SeptPhotoChallenge #SomethingforSept
Martyn_J_Pass I work in a place that could do with this book... 8y
BookishFeminist @TheBear With which one? Where do you work?! That sounds awful if your workplace desperately needs it. 😳 8y
Martyn_J_Pass @BookishFeminist All of them lol. Obviously I can't go into great detail online but the attitude to women here is a joke. Hopefully as younger management take over this will slowly die away. 8y
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BookishFeminist @TheBear That sounds awful and arcane. It baffles me why so many of these problems still exist in 2016. I feel awful for everyone in your workplace, women especially, because when one group is trodden down everyone is. I hope new younger management fixes it eventually too. I used to work in law and I had many issues in places where management was significantly older, better success in places with younger management. 8y
Martyn_J_Pass @BookishFeminist That's exactly the problem, it's an age thing with a history of this kind of behaviour being the norm. Hopefully it will improve but by then I'm hoping to have left to make my fortune writing fiction that deals with these gender issues properly ha ha ha 8y
Vinjii In my old job my boss, a woman, was in the committee for gender equality. She herself refused another woman a promotion saying as a mother of 3 the job would be impossible for her. I know she meant well. It was one of those 8AM-10PM jobs that could blow up into your face at any moment making it necessary for you to stay in the office and my boss had lived through that for years and worried the other lady might miss out on seeing her kids regularly 8y
BookishFeminist @TheBear Yea, that's unfortunately common. A lot of it keeps staying around, too, since the economic crash several years back have led folks to retire later and not let younger management move up as would have otherwise been the case in many instances. Sad and frustrating. I hope you take every ounce of your frustration out in your fiction! 8y
Vinjii BUT. Those facts were well known to this lady. She wanted the job and her husband had flexible working hours and wanted to do his part with the children and support his wife. So my boss, a WOMAN, stood in that lady's career path because of nothing. And was part of the gender equality committee of the company. I'm still annoyed. Years later. 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii 😐😐 That's baffling to me. I've also experienced workplace sexism at the hands of female management- it's sadly not that uncommon. What an awful position your old coworker was in! So much of workplace sexism handed down by women is built into the system. Also I've noticed that it's common for women to feel threatened when other women want to be high achieving and have a family when they wouldn't opt to do the same- rather than take ... 8y
Martyn_J_Pass @Vinjii That's the flip side of the coin then? Wow. 8y
Martyn_J_Pass @BookishFeminist I certainly will be doing. I'm quite happy that my reader demographic is mostly women so I hope that means I'm doing something right... 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii ... each woman's choices and experiences as her own, women's decisions as they pertain to career/family balance is something many other women feel the need to police so they don't feel outdone by these women. It's very frustrating and awful to those who want the promotions & can handle them. Some women can, some can't or don't want too. All are fine options but it's individual choice! I'd still be frustrated too. (And I am now lol) 8y
BookishFeminist @TheBear Not always the flip side! A lot is sadly borne out of ignorance & female management often does similar things bc they have pressure from male management. Sadly the system is 💯💯 messed up in many workplaces, but not all of them. 8y
BookishFeminist @TheBear I hope that means you are too! It can be tricky to navigate in writing but it's important to address, especially if you have privilege (because that sadly means other men and even women are more likely to listen 😐). 8y
Dedebimp Everyday sexism is such a great/infuriating little book. 8y
BookishFeminist @Dedebimp Isn't it though? I found myself relating to more of it than I'd even considered before. And it looks so innocent! 8y
Dedebimp @BookishFeminist I had the exact same experience. I could almost tick of every story as either experiencing it myself or know a friend/family member who experienced it. Was not anticipating it. 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist My boss brought up 3 children before starting to work. She was 60 at the time this happened. And she clearly said the lady's children are too young (5,8,11) and she'll be missing out. She couldn't understand that the father wanted to be the main parent and the lady wanted a career. Even though she was told. And it was explained. 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist "You will regret it." I even raised it with HR also a woman who said "Boss is right, the job has hours that aren't compatible with being a mother." ?? 8y
Vinjii I'm so baffled as to how women can stand in each other's ways like that! 😰 8y
TheLondonBookworm Great interpretation! I think I'm adding all of this to the TBR 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii UGHH that's awful. Making a judgment about your family life and career choices doesn't mean your priorities are everyone's! 🙄😡😡 it reminds me a bit of a conversation I had with my partner's mom regarding our current presidential election. We're both planning to vote for Hillary in the fall, and she said I wonder who will run instead of her after her term is up? I was like what do you mean? She might run for reelection so it's early ... 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii ... to speculate about whether someone would run in her stead when her term is up. She said in response, "I'm her age and I wouldn't want to run for a second term!" I actually rolled my eyes ? why would she put this energy to run & not think about a 2nd term??women making choices and judgment calls about other women's careers based on their own personal preferences & limitations is just so baffling and ridiculous to me. 8y
BookishFeminist @Dedebimp The worst/best types of books are the ones we're unprepared to experience but take away so much from 8y
BookishFeminist @TheLondonBookworm Let me know whether you enjoy them! I haven't read all of the titles in full yet & I'd love to hear others' thoughts. 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist Right? Right. I understand making an assumption or giving advice about something because of your own preferences and limitations and experience. But be open to the possibility it might be entirely different for someone else? And respect that? How hard is that? 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii It shouldn't be hard! This woman can obviously empathize if she's been in similar shoes to this woman. Maybe instead of limiting her options she would want to help provide better support for a working mother in this stressful job and figure out a way to make it more doable for busy people. But no. 🙄 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii Also just the refusal to understand how a husband and father can have a lead role in care taking for the family is just infuriating. 😡😡 Would she have said the same thing if this woman told her she had a full-time nanny for her children? That's not uncommon either and allows women a lot of flexibility in busy, stressful careers. I can guarantee you women have managed more than this specific job w/a family as well. 8y
Notafraidofwords You have no idea how many times I've gone to a job interview (especially after I graduated from college) and have been asked if I have kids... 8y
BookishFeminist @Notafraidofwords I bet I do have an idea! (I've been asked on nearly every job interview.) also I've been chastised for not being engaged while living with my partner. 😡😡 as if my martial status is a) any of their fucking business b) their decision or c) relevant 8y
Notafraidofwords @BookishFeminist yep!! I don't have kids so I always replied as such. However, I have a niece so I have a car seat in the back. I've had women coworkers assume I have lied about having kids because of the car seat. 8y
Owlizabeth @Vinjii @BookishFeminist my husband is a stay at home dad and I'm the one who works outside the home and this is SO CONFUSING to so many people!! I get a lot of "what does he do all day??" I'm like, clean, cook, laundry, kid stuff...? I'm always asked how I get him to do these things, like I've forced him into it. Or women saying "I wish my husband would do xyz". My response is: Demand equality in your own damn home?!?!? #womendoingwork 8y
Notafraidofwords What does your married life or unmarried life have to do with anything. 8y
BookishFeminist @Notafraidofwords 😡😡 well that's just infuriating because why would anyone else have a car seat unless they've popped a baby out? Nannies don't exist and obviously don't have car seats either 🙄 even if yours is for your niece. Such narrow mindedness! You're much nicer than I am- I've flat out told interviewers it's none of their business. One actually called me back, lol. 8y
BookishFeminist @Notafraidofwords Oh you didn't know? If I'm not married I am obviously not to be trusted. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 8y
BookishFeminist @Owlizabeth Right! Like the stuff a woman would also do at home to take care of family and children. My partner and I don't have kids and aren't married yet (though we have been engaged for a while), and he does most of the housework bc it just works out that way. When I say my partner's got dinner ready they go WHAT WHERE'D YOU FIND HIM? I mean jeez these people exist! It's ridiculous that some folks are caught up in the "norms" that they ... 8y
Notafraidofwords @BookishFeminist of course the untrustworthy woman. It's infuriating. 8y
BookishFeminist @Owlizabeth ... can't see outside of them. Props to you guys for sticking with it and making it work! I know it can be hard but I am happy you ask for equality & he is willing to provide a safe place for it. 👍🏼 8y
BookishFeminist @Notafraidofwords Yep, we're witches or sluts unless we've got a good man at home. 🙄 So infuriating. 😡 8y
BookishFeminist @Notafraidofwords You know what the worst part is while I'm fuming over this again? Many women are not offered jobs bc they have family and children. To question a woman's marital status for the exact opposite as if we aren't trustworthy w/o being married, only to have it flipped on us when we are because even if we aren't planning on children, the *potential* is now there, is beyond ridiculous. We obvs can't be trusted to make decisions. 😡💀💀 8y
Notafraidofwords @BookishFeminist well clearly it doesn't make any sense. But the system has placed inside a box and then are quick to dismiss the box. It's just the way it's been and I only see it getting worse with the elections. 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist She was very much insisting on a child needing her mother and a mother regretting any minute she didn't spend with that child later on. I don't think she would have accepted anything else. 8y
Vinjii @Notafraidofwords My partner points out early in interviews that she is in a gay relationship because she knows being female and 32 would otherwise lower her chances of getting a job because they think she's about to become pregnant or something :/ 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii Ughhh really?! That's awful, especially since I know that can hurt her chances of getting a job if interviewed by the wrong bigoted person. I can't with people. Done. 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist I take care of household, dogs, cooking etc. while working part time, freelance from home. My partner has a well paid job and she's glad I make it possible for her to have home cooked meals etc. I keep being told "you don't have a job" "you're just a housewife" etc. and it really bothers me :/ also mostly by women btw. 8y
BookishFeminist @Notafraidofwords Agreed. The sexism these days is strong, especially the nasty micro aggressive kind leveled against high achieving or powerful women. I have leveled many pointed arguments at people who "dislike" Hillary for her "untrustworthiness" which is likely something she's faced her entire career & keeps a distance on stage bc that's how she's had to play the game her whole life to succeed. Politics aside, that is some sexist BS. 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist Yeah. She says she puts that statement in before the "do you have children" question pops up because she's so sick of it. She also says if she misses out on a job because they're against gay people she'd rather not work there. So for her it's also a way to make sure she doesn't end up in a bigoted environment. 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii I get the same comments! I part-time freelance from home. My (male) partner works full time yet constantly it's why don't you get a job too?! Like I can't with you people anymore. If I worked hard you would tell me to relax. If I "don't work" in your narrow vision of what work is in a domestic partnership, that's your problem, not mine. Ughhh I knew this post of mine would make me angry this morning lol 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist The sad thing is it also checks the "we need to add diversity" to the company box. Because apparently sadly as a woman just having a strong CV isn't enough ? 8y
Notafraidofwords @BookishFeminist completely agree! 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii Hugs- with you in solidarity. People are obnoxious. It bothers me too but we'll support and vent on here, and it will be better because we'll have the anger of a thousand women backing us up online. 💪🏼💪🏼✊🏼 (and that makes sense- I would feel similarly in your partner's shoes I think- sort of nips the bigotry & the children question in the bud with one go. So frustrating when neither are relevant. 😡) 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist I moved from Switzerland to the UK because she has a job she loves and I fancied a change. I invested my entire savings into the deposit, the furniture and used the rest of it to support myself for a while trying to build a portfolio. I am cooking meals from scratch every day, dinner & lunch, take care of 2 dogs and keep the house clean. Why do they think they can make fun of me? :/ 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii Ughhhh! Pity jobs. Can I just send all her past current and future workplaces this "What Works" book? It's basically how not to be a discriminatory jerk to women and other less privileged folks 101 without pandering to them lol. 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist It's nice to see that the Internet is filling with angry women. Wish it wasn't necessary though. It's 2016! 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii They have no right to make fun of you. Same here. A lot of my work winds up being "unpaid" because I'm doing career development stuff & freelance on the side. Different priorities. I always say if you're so concerned for our wellbeing why don't you pay our bills then? It's literally no one's business but you and your partners. 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii Jealous that the UK has mandated paid maternity leave for women at least- we are one of few countries that DOESN'T. 😡😡😡 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii It is nice and I agree- angry women are definitely a force to be reckoned with so there's that at least. It should not be necessary. At all. Especially when some of the language and ideas behind these sexist things in the workplace hasn't evolved one bit, which is even more baffling to think about. All this time, some progress, no where near enough where it counts. 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist Oh yes. It baffles me how a country who is so adamant against abortion offers so little support to women once they've had their children. Assuming you're in the US? And I fully agree. Even if you decided to do nothing paid and were, I don't know, painting or reading all day it would be between you and your partner and wouldn't be anyone else's business. 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii Yep, in the US. Don't even get me started on the abortion stuff. I am SO done with religious/patriarchal/conservative takeover of women's issues in this country I could blow a gasket that would land us on Mars. 8y
Vinjii @BookishFeminist Sometimes I do think a different planet would be nice 😜 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii Hey I would be down for a matriarchal colony even, some days my feminism borders more on misandry than others. 😜 8y
BookishFeminist @Vinjii Speaking of female only societies, have you read this book by Charlotte Perkins Gilman? It's wonderful and sarcastic and awesome and literally just makes fun of men the whole time when a few of them bombard their female only colony.![[tagged book]](https://image.librarything.com/pics/litsy_webpics/icon_taggedBook@3x.png)
Herland: Easyread Comfort Edition 8y
Herland: Easyread Comfort EditionVinjii @BookishFeminist No. It sounds very interesting though. Putting it onto my list. 8y
TheNextBook @BookishFeminist I hope more people read this feed! This is a conversation that everyone needs to be engaged in. I think people take for granted how sexism can run rampant at a work place. I've had great work experiences, especially as of late, but I'm very aware of the problem and how easily it can be ignored. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 We have to speak up on it or it will keep getting ignored! Great post. 8y
TheWellReadOwl This is a great booklist and a great thread. @Owlizabeth My husband isn't stay at home but because of my job he handles the bulk of the housework and the child transportation during the week. The worst is when his own peers ask him things like "how do you put up with that?" Like *sharing* housework and parenting duties is beneath them. ? Thank goodness my husband is enlightened. 8y
RealLifeReading Thanks for this great interpretation of the prompt. And what a reading list. 8y
Dragon Very informative list and a great thread. When I started my professional career there were not a lot of jobs in the city and I had to move away- the jobs went to Caucasian men first and they got higher wages. Today I work with a majority of women of different ethnic backgrounds and with equal pay. Things have improved but it seems like it's backsliding and rights we fought so hard for are being threatened 8y
ImaginativeMom This is a terrific conversation! I know it's about the workplace and I don't want to divert that conversation, but I have to stand up against the "just a housewife" line of thinking. My being at home is not only the right decision for me and my family, but frees me up to support friends who work: picking up their kids at school when they're sick, airport/car repair/dr visit runs, etc. Feminism covers all of our choices. The home is my workplace 8y