The Fragrance of Sweet-Grass

The Fragrance of Sweet-Grass: L.M. Montgomery's Heroines and the Pursuit of Romance | Elizabeth Rollins Epperly

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead - Fragrance of Sweet-Grass discussion (4/4)

Were there new insights or perspectives that you gained through this reading?
Did this reading cause you to notice anything about LMM‘s work that you hadn‘t noticed before?

rubyslippersreads, TheAromaofBooks, willaful

willaful I'll have to answer this one later. I'm at my mom's (she just had surgery -- is doing fine!) and couldn't bring the book with me to check my bookmarks. 10mo

TheAromaofBooks I appreciated that Epperly seemed more into fitting LMM's writing into a larger, world-events kind of context more than the nitty-gritty of LMM's personal life. It was interesting to think about which books were written before, during, and after WWI, and how those feelings impacted LMM's writing and themes. For instance, it made a lot of the weirdo-obsessions of Pat make more sense in the larger theme of “the war has changed everything.“ 10mo

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Yes, I appreciated that aspect of her writing as well. She didn't try to shoehorn every book into a specific biographical context or match up every plot point to events in LMM's life. The current events context made much more sense--and really enriched my understanding of House of Dreams and Rainbow Valley especially. And YES about Pat. Like you, I thought the comparison of Pat and Jane was really well done. 10mo

BarbaraJean @willaful Glad your mom is doing well!! Upon @TheAromaofBooks suggestion, I may post some more placeholders for further thoughts on different sections! I have quite a few notes and underlines that I could share and I know Sarah has plenty of notes, too 😁 10mo

willaful I just finished -- handily, got three space on the March #ISpyBingo with this 😂 --and I agree with @TheAromaOfBooks that getting the wider context for the books was really interesting. I was also intrigued by learning about all the references and allusions. 10mo

17 likes5 comments

BarbaraJean

The Fragrance of Sweet-Grass: L.M. Montgomery's Heroines and the Pursuit of Romance | Elizabeth Rollins Epperly

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead - Fragrance of Sweet-Grass discussion (3/4)

What significant points do you think Epperly really got right?
Were there any significant points you disagreed with?

rubyslippersreads, TheAromaofBooks, willaful

willaful I agreed with most of her personal reactions--about the way Anne loses her personality over time, & the richness of the Emily books.

My main disagreement was re Teddy & Dean. I haven't reread the Emily books in a long time & I came to them later than Anne, when there was a revival of interest in Montgomery and many more books of hers were available than were at my childhood libraries. But I'm positive I was not on Dean's side of the triangle. 10mo

willaful I think it's kind of funny that the author, while clearly seeing how far superior Teddy is for Emily as a life partner, is still captivated by Dean's broody Rochester-ness and assumes everyone else is too. 😂 10mo

TheAromaofBooks I did agree with most of what she had to say (except about Anne of Avonlea; I felt like she was way too harsh on that book). There were also times that she made very sweeping statements about heroines only struggling because of their female status, without remotely exploring other possibilities (i.e. would Emily's family have been excited to have a BOY who was into writing poetry instead of farming...?? Maybe, maybe not). Like @willaful I felt ⬇ 10mo

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TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) that she was WAY to easy on Dean. He's literally a groomer, but she doesn't really touch on the super creepy aspect of their age difference within the context of him “claiming“ her when she is a CHILD and then purposefully “molding her mind“ over the next decade. Instead, Epperly acts like they are intellectual equals, thus making Dean's “friendship“ a positive aspect of Emily's life. Very debatable. ⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) Things I liked - I thought her analysis of Rilla was really well done, and I actually loved her analysis of House of Dreams, especially within its context of being written/published during the war. Aside from Dean, I thought the views on the Emily trilogy were quite good. Overall, while I quibbled with some details in each chapter, I found myself mostly agreeing with overall themes. ⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) If you feel like posting a specific discussion spot for each section and/or chapter, I could probably share many more feelings 😂 I made a LOT of marginal notes! 10mo

willaful @TheAromaofBooks Yes, she was overly harsh on AoA Anne. I don't think Montgomery ever meant Anne to be perfect. 10mo

willaful @TheAromaofBooks Oh, good point about Dean grooming! (edited) 10mo

TheAromaofBooks @willaful - I think she kind of ignores Anne being 16/17 in that book. It's an age where Anne is becoming an adult & learning the difference between imagination & reality, and learning that “magic“ doesn't have to be dramatic; romance CAN be found in the every day. Epperly caught some of that, but didn't give Anne a lot of grace. It's not a perfect book, but to say it's a book that “only children“ can really enjoy felt unduly harsh on both book ⬇ (edited) 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) and readers!! 10mo

BarbaraJean @willaful “captivated by Dean's broody Rochester-ness“😂 I can't stand Rochester (I think he's an ass) & I don't find Jane Eyre romantic AT ALL. But I did find the Rochester comparison very apt--they're both older men manipulating a young woman. Epperly does such a great job of pointing out all the little clues about Dean's possessiveness & manipulation, but never acknowledges the creepy groomer factor which NEEDS acknowledgement. @TheAromaofBooks 10mo

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks @willaful I thought the AoA chapter was the weakest & disagreed with a lot of it, but her emphasis on the difference between narrators in the various Anne books was fascinating. I'd never thought about it, but it makes sense—and I think she's right, it's one of the reasons Anne of Avonlea feels flat in so many places. Overall, I agreed with most of the points she makes and appreciated her close analysis of so many textual details. 10mo

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Maybe we should have done this as a chapter-a-day style read!! I'm super interested to hear more of your notes - maybe I will go ahead and write several posts for discussion of each section!! I'll go back through my notes as well. 10mo

willaful @BarbaraJean Yes, I kind of wish we had! It's hard to remember everything. 10mo

TheAromaofBooks Some of the chapters were long, so it would have been a little more difficult to set up a reading schedule, but I did find myself scribbling a lot of marginal notes, both positive and negative. We all know I love expressing my opinions on books, and especially on books about books I love 😂 10mo

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BarbaraJean

The Fragrance of Sweet-Grass: L.M. Montgomery's Heroines and the Pursuit of Romance | Elizabeth Rollins Epperly

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead - Fragrance of Sweet-Grass discussion (2/4)

What would you say is Epperly‘s overall thesis about LMM‘s heroines and their quest for romance?
Is it clear throughout the book?
Do you agree with her conclusions?

rubyslippersreads, TheAromaofBooks, willaful

willaful Unfortunately I'm not quite done, so I'm not sure I can answer this. I think she does demonstrate some progression on Montgomery's expression of the ideas, but I'm not sure all her conclusions were supported. 10mo

TheAromaofBooks I appreciated that Epperly seemed to recognize that LMM's different heroines were seeking different types of romance beyond just girl+boy=marriage. I especially enjoyed her chapter on Pat/Jane and their romance of the home. Where she fell down a little for me were times that she said that LMM only had her characters find love/marriage because it was “expected“ - in a negative way. I don't think LMM loved writing romance, but I don't think it's ⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) because she didn't like romance or didn't want her characters to be married. I just think it wasn't her favorite thing to write. When Epperly quoted someone who said Dean was “the nearest L.M. Montgomery ever got to creating a plausible lover“ I kind of threw up in my mouth. 😖 I'm not sure why the analysis we've read all are down on Gilbert/Gilbert and Anne together/seem to think LMM was reluctant to have them together. @willaful 10mo

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willaful @TheAromaofBooks LOL! Yes, I also found the negativity around Gilbert odd. Perhaps she blames Gilbert for the diminishing of Anne in some of the later books? Not really fair to him. 10mo

TheAromaofBooks @willaful - I think I've never been bothered by the “diminishing“ of Anne, because I just feel like the focus was on other characters. Being an established, married, humdrum adult in your 30s/40s just isn't as interesting or engaging reading as a focus on the younger generation. I never felt like Anne herself became less of herself, she's just not as prominently featured. I thought Epperly's constant complaint about it was a little strange. ⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) Especially when she was griping about it in Rilla... literally the name of the book is RILLA of Ingleside, so I don't find it strange that Anne isn't the main character?? 10mo

BarbaraJean @willaful @TheAromaofBooks I also liked Epperly's expansion of “romance“ to include beauty & home, not just love+marriage. BUT I got annoyed at how many times she criticized LMM for including a traditionally romantic happy ending. Yes, LMM was writing in a time when that was expected, but as Epperly points out, she subverts so many conventions on the way there. That's where I disagree with Epperly--the love/marriage ending doesn't cancel out the ⬇ 10mo

BarbaraJean (Cont'd) rest of what LMM was doing in challenging conventions. Just because Valancy and Barney end up married doesn't negate the way Valancy flaunts conventions in nursing Cissy and staying with her and Roaring Abel. I wished there had been a better/longer analysis of Blue Castle, because I think there's a lot more there to explore re: Epperly's theme of the pursuit of romance. 10mo

BarbaraJean @willaful @TheAromaofBooks I also don't get the negativity about Gilbert + Anne. I think LMM does SO much by showing how Anne's pursuit of romance gradually changes & grows as she matures. The shift from a schoolgirl fascination with melancholy, inscrutable heroes to realizing that love is found in someone who fits you as a companion and friend, as well as a lover. THAT to me is the common thread in (and what I love about) an LMM romance! 10mo

willaful @BarbaraJean Yes, I think that progression is valuable. And there's nothing wrong with it ending in a happy ending with the right person!

10mo

TheAromaofBooks @BarbaraJean - I completely agree. You did a great job voicing what was nagging me about Epperly's sort of anti-traditional-ending attitude - I never feel like LMM's heroines are compromising themselves/the lessons they learned/their personal growth to achieve that HEA. Anne marrying Roy would have been a tragedy because doing so would mean Anne wasn't true *to herself* - same with other alternates (Emily/Teddy vs Emily/Dean). Epperly somewhat ⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) glosses over the idea that LMM's insistence that her heroines end up marrying someone who is an equal partner to them, who respects them, who listens to their opinions and thoughts, who is unafraid of their intelligence and independence - that that in and of itself subverts the “traditional“ HEA of the time, and I think is a huge part of the reason that her stories have remained so popular and feel, in a way, timeless. I would say that ⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) Kilmeny is a much better example of romance from the time. And while it's a perfectly pleasant tale, it completely lacks the emotional depth of her other books, in part because I've never felt confident in Kilmeny's long-term happiness, because I've never been confident that Eric genuinely loves/respects Kilmeny as a person instead of just Kilmeny as an object. Contrasted to other HEAs throughout LMM's work - even less in-depth ⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) ones like Peter/Donna in A Tangled Web - there is such a difference in the way LMM presents women and their right to their own autonomy within a relationship. @willaful 10mo

willaful @TheAromaOfBooks Having finished now, I get a sense -- possibly based on my own strong bias towards romance -- that the author felt conflicted as an academic/feminist and as a romance reader. It probably didn't help that romance in the 90s was pretty dire in many ways. Note how she says that Valancy and Barney being so similar is unconventional in romance, which is no longer at all true. cont.
(edited) 10mo

willaful And I don't think was entirely true then; the only type of romance she specifically mentions is Harlequins, which leaves an entire world unexplored. She seems to personally favor the “Rochester“ sort of romantic hero: “Could the boy next door inspire worship? And passion coupled with friendship seems to work against the most powerful patterns of conventional romance, where mystery discourages friendship.“ cont. (edited) 10mo

willaful She may be genuinely noting what she saw in the literature here, but I also got a sense that it reflected her own tastes -- very much prefering Dean to Teddy, for example.

She does give Montgomery credit at the end for the “liberating contribution to the conventional romance story--having the friend become the lover“ but without seeming to truly appreciate the value of that.

I'd love to see her update this book using current romances! 10mo

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BarbaraJean

The Fragrance of Sweet-Grass: L.M. Montgomery's Heroines and the Pursuit of Romance | Elizabeth Rollins Epperly

I am behind and haven‘t finished the last two chapters yet! But I thought I‘d go ahead and put some questions out there and then go finish my reading 😆

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead - Fragrance of Sweet-Grass discussion (1/4)

Have you read much literary analysis/literary criticism before?
What was it like reading this type of analysis of beloved, well-known favorites like the Anne and Emily books?

rubyslippersreads, TheAromaofBooks, willaful

rubyslippersreads I‘m behind (although I‘m pretty sure I read the Emily chapters years ago). Will try to catch up soon and answer. 10mo

willaful This is honestly just the sort of literary criticism I enjoy. It's not too academic for me to understand and has an emotional component to it. It probably helped that I mostly agreed with her. 😁 10mo

TheAromaofBooks I'm with @willaful - I felt like this was approachable but still felt “legit“ in its tone and structure. I haven't read a lot of literary analysis because I get really emotionally attached to books and don't always want to hear what others think 😂 10mo

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BarbaraJean @willaful Me too! It's accessible, and pretty much based in the text rather than pulling from esoteric literary theories. And I enjoy a closer reading of books I love. @TheAromaofBooks Yes, exactly--it was scholarly without being exclusive. 😂 😂 on the emotional attachment--I think this was one of the issues we both had with Magic Island!! 10mo

willaful @BarbaraJean “pretty much based in the text rather than pulling from esoteric literary theories.“ Yes! And I don't mind reading critique I don't agree with when it's coming from a place of love. 10mo

TheAromaofBooks It felt like Magic Island was bending over backwards to connect every single thing that happened in every single LMM story connect to LMM's personal life, so it devolved into what felt more like conspiracy theories than actual literary critique haha Epperly had a much more balanced approach so that for the most part I appreciated her thoughts even when I didn't agree with them. 10mo

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LitsyEvents

The Fragrance of Sweet-Grass: L.M. Montgomery's Heroines and the Pursuit of Romance | Elizabeth Rollins Epperly

via @BarbaraJean So apparently the 24th is next Saturday—who knew? 😆 I‘m not as far into this as I‘d like, but am hoping to catch up and get some questions posted next weekend! All are welcome to join in—let me know if you‘re not tagged and you‘d like to be. #KindredSpiritsBuddyRead

LitsyEvents original post https://www.litsy.com/web/book/2545/The-Fragrance-of-Sweet-Grass-L-M-Montgomerys... 10mo

37 likes1 comment

BarbaraJean

The Fragrance of Sweet-Grass: L.M. Montgomery's Heroines and the Pursuit of Romance | Elizabeth Rollins Epperly

So apparently the 24th is next Saturday—who knew? 😆 I‘m not as far into this as I‘d like, but am hoping to catch up and get some questions posted next weekend! All are welcome to join in—let me know if you‘re not tagged and you‘d like to be. #KindredSpiritsBuddyRead

rubyslippersreads, TheAromaofBooks, LitsyEvents, willaful

TheAromaofBooks I just finished the Rilla chapter yesterday, so I am plugging away haha I am actually enjoying this more than I thought I would. While I don't agree with everything, she makes a lot of good points/parallels/connections that don't feel nearly as much of a stretch as some of the others we've read! Still feel like she was unduly harsh on poor Avonlea! 😂 10mo

TheAromaofBooks I can't seem to remember.... do we have a March book to read?? 10mo

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks We do not… I‘ve been thinking about taking a break for a few months, but seeing if there‘s interest in continuing with reading the journals together. Or some related books that have come up—I‘m fascinated with all the connections Epperly is making with Jane Eyre/Aurora Leigh/Story of an African Farm. And I‘ve been told that the Ladies of Missalonghi is a complete ripoff of The Blue Castle, and would be interested in comparing!

The Ladies of Missalonghi

10mo

TheAromaofBooks Keep me in the loop!! I'd be interested in reading some other things (although probably not Jane Eyre again... I just can't seem to get my head around the Brontes haha) I honestly have a strange desire to reread LMM's works in the order that she published them (except Mistress Pat...) I'm excited about our discussion of this book; I've enjoyed it way more than I thought I would and feel like Epperly makes a lot of great points (and some not 😂) 10mo

26 likes4 comments

BarbaraJean

The Fragrance of Sweet-Grass: L.M. Montgomery's Heroines and the Pursuit of Romance | Elizabeth Rollins Epperly

@TheAromaofBooks - I‘m on the Anne of Avonlea essay and am arguing with the author in the margins. 😒 So far, I‘m finding her analysis to be a lot better supported than Magic Island, though. I‘m appreciating a lot of the details she points out—even if I‘m disagreeing with a lot of her conclusions! #KindredSpiritsBuddyRead

rubyslippersreads, willaful

willaful I like your comments. Alas, I'm reading an ebook. 😂 10mo

TheAromaofBooks I didn't really care for the Avonlea chapter (at one point she says something like “many children enjoy this book“ which felt pretty insulting for anyone who is NOT a child an enjoys the book), but now I am reading the Island chapter and it's better (because the author likes it better??) Her thoughts don't seem as wildly opinionated as Magic Island, but I do feel that she's a bit harsh on Anne, who is only 17ish in Avonlea - I've always felt that⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) this was a growing pains kind of book. To me, in GG she's always had to live in her imagination because real life sucked, so now that real life is good, she is having trouble separating imagination from reality. In Avonlea, she's learning that romance/magic can be found in everyday life, but still has a tendency to add too much imagination, which can distort/unbalance her perspective. She's gaining perspective, but still takes herself ⬇ 10mo

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TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) too seriously sometimes. In Island, she's learned to laugh at herself much more readily, which I think is one of the biggest lessons she learned in Avonlea (Epperly doesn't seem to mention it), but still has a lot of romantic ideals for the future. What Epperly seems to ignore is that a lot of growing up, in general, is about learning what is ACTUALLY important and what will ACTUALLY make you happy. And to me that's what Anne learns in ⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) Island - she realizes that a lot of her romantic ideals, about both marriage and general life, won't actually make her happy in real life. All the romantic pairings we see in that story illustrate it in different ways as various individuals make choices about what will make them happy. Epperly is down on Island's “preoccupation with marriage,“ but no matter how you cut it, finding a life mate always has been and still is a big part of ⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) life and growing up. Some of the reasons for wanting to find that person change from generation to generation, but I don't think it's an outdated or that LMM would have necessarily written the story differently if she was writing now instead of when she did. And maybe that's part of why a lot of these commentaries have bothered me a little - the assumption that if LMM had had a “choice“ she would have written completely different stories⬇ 10mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) that she was just “trapped“ by “convention“ into writing what she did. I am not sure that I agree that the essence of LMM's stories and characters would have changed so drastically. But maybe I'm wrong haha And also I appear to be writing a book myself in these comments, so I'll stop for now. In short, I am enjoying the chapter on Island more, and my margins are also getting quite a few !??! written in them 😂 10mo

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BarbaraJean

The Fragrance of Sweet-Grass: L.M. Montgomery's Heroines and the Pursuit of Romance | Elizabeth Rollins Epperly

I‘m super excited about February‘s #KindredSpiritsBuddyRead pick! Examining LMM‘s heroines‘ pursuit of romance is perfect for February. I‘m hoping we fare better with this critical study of LMM‘s work than we did with Magic Island. 😏

Discussion will be on Saturday, Feb. 24th—all are welcome! Let me know if you‘d like to be added to the tag list.

rubyslippersreads, TheAromaofBooks, willaful

TheAromaofBooks I really thought I had already ordered this book, but can't find it or any receipts for it, so did I imagine the entire thing?! 😂 Off to see if I can find a copy on eBay, apparently! 11mo

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Ha! I did kind of the opposite—partway through last year, I discovered I‘d bought a copy of this but hadn‘t added it to the Kindred Spirits schedule 😂 Which may be why you thought you‘d bought it but hadn‘t? It might be my fault for adding it late… 😬 11mo

TheAromaofBooks I think maybe I looked at a few used copies last month but didn't actually pull the trigger on one. It's on the way now 😂 Hopefully I don't end up rage reviewing it like Magic Island!! 11mo

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BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks I hope so too!!! I just want one book of LMM literary analysis that is actually good!! 11mo

TheAromaofBooks Well, I'm reading about ten pages of this one a day, and so far have a lot of ?!?!?! in the margins 😂 10mo

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks I‘m halfway through the AoGG essay and so far I‘m liking it much more than Magic Island! 10mo

TheAromaofBooks It's a lot more scholarly than Magic Island, but I still feel that she leans too heavily (so far, anyway; I just finished the AoGG chapter this morning) into the “Anne had to smother her true, independent, free-thinking self so she could be with Gilbert, and only because Montgomery had to succumb to gender norms of the times.“ I just don't see marriage as Anne's inevitable dead-end that society backed her into. 10mo

willaful @TheAromaofBooks I do think she makes valid points about how Anne's character changes throughout the series. 10mo

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