whartonbuddyread

The Buccaneers - Book 3
#whartonbuddyread

Ok, 1st of all, I didn‘t see that marriage happening. What a devastating way to open book 3.

2nd - that‘s the end of Wharton‘s draft.

3rd - but she also left a synopsis. So we know what is going to happen. But that‘s looking ahead.

4th - so, Book 3 - thoughts on Longlands, Ushant, Dowager, Thwarte, Conchita, Testvalley, Lizzy Robinson?

5th - completion plan next week. See comments.

Lcsmcat

Graywacke Completion plan: as Wharton left a synopsis, there are a couple completions. We can discuss them Saturday Feb 22 - synopsis, completion, and the overall themes they reveal. Sound ok? (edited) 1w

Graywacke Note: My edition has a completion based on a 1990‘s television take - but doesn‘t follow the tv script, because that script changes the plot and makes Ushant openly gay (something possible but not openly suggested). It‘s a hundred pages. I admit I‘m not super enthused to read it, but willing to give it a try. Still I definitely want to discuss overarching themes. (edited) 1w

Graywacke @AllDebooks @CarolynM @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @jewright @LapReader @Lcsmcat @Leftcoastzen @TheBookHippie 1w

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Currey @Graywacke I also was upset that Nan married as she did and that it further diminished her self confidence and quirky nature so much. I rather like the fact that Testvalley was given a romantic role. Having read so much Wharton now, it does not feel as if she intended everyone to live happily ever after. The best we can hope for is for Nan to gain some self confidence. 1w

Currey @Graywacke - my book does not have the synopsis but an ending written by someone else. Can you share where to find synopsis? I do not want to read a TV ending. 1w

Currey @Graywacke I read that Wharton based Lizzy on the mother of Winston Churchill. There are many paintings of her and she was quite beautiful (in the paintings) and known to be intelligent, and ambitious for her husband and son. 1w

Graywacke @Currey Lizzy is Winston‘s mom?!! Wharton noticed Winston‘s mom in the 1930‘s? !! 1w

Currey @Graywacke https://images.app.goo.gl/23FsvTmYugGQPNu36 1w

Graywacke @Currey if i can find the synopsis online, i‘ll share a link. It‘s six pages, so tough to share here. I‘m happy to photograph the pages and email anyone interested. Email me at: dan iel . chaikin @ gmail . com (without spaces) 1w

Graywacke @Currey she was gorgeous. Was she American? 1w

Graywacke @Currey clearly yes. What a character. Premarital pregnancy, many lovers rumored. I‘m intrigued! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Randolph_Churchill 1w

Graywacke Amongst his biographers, there are varied opinions on whether he was conceived before the marriage, or born two months prematurely after Lady Randolph "had a fall." When asked about the circumstances of his birth, Winston Churchill replied: "Although present on the occasion, I have no clear recollection of the events leading up to it." 1w

Currey @Graywacke Yes, quite the beauty and quite the social manipulator for her own ends. Love the Winston quote. 7d

Lcsmcat Once again I‘m behind. 🙄 But yeah, I saw that marriage coming the way you see an accident happening and can‘t stop it. 😀 7d

Lcsmcat Wharton‘s negative view of marriage is on full display, but I‘m also getting conflicting emotions from her on the old vs. new we saw in Hudson River Bracketed. Quote below 7d

Lcsmcat “At least life in England had a background, layers and layers of rich deep background, of history, poetry, old traditional observances, beautiful houses, beautiful landscapes, beautiful ancient buildings, palaces, churches, cathedrals.” 7d

Graywacke @Lcsmcat about the marriage… i kind of wanted a next step by Ushant. Clearly he did not listen to Laura Testvalley. 7d

Graywacke @Lcsmcat my introduction argues that Wharton appreciated the value of marriage. But she had a bad marriage. It also makes parallels between Nan and Wharton (unhappy marriage), and between Testvalley and Wharton (unmarried in middle age). (It also confirmed my Buccaneers explanation mentioned late in last week‘s post. Although I suspect you and others had already worked that out) 7d

Lcsmcat @Graywacke And one wonders if she were offering an alternative to Henry James‘ The Ambassadors? 7d

Graywacke @Lcsmcat tell more! I haven‘t read James 7d

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I don‘t remember a lot about it but it‘s also about the Europe is better than America and all cultured Americans are that way because they follow Europe‘s lead. It‘s more from the male point of view, and I don‘t remember it having the depth of feeling in the female characters that Buccaneers has. 7d

CarolynM I found this last Book rather sad. In some ways Nan reminded me of Lily Bart, but here she gave in to the “need” for marriage and the consequences were tragic in their own way. The social and cultural misunderstandings also made me think of a modern American duchess… My ebook contains a brief synopsis at the end, only 2 paragraphs sketch out the intended ending. It would have been interesting to see how she would have developed it. 7d

Lcsmcat @CarolynM I saw Nan as more like Halo. She went into the marriage thinking it was a live match, and then discovered her husband‘s true personality. 6d

CarolynM @Lcsmcat I think Halo was much more sophisticated and equipped to carry out the wifely role both public and private. Neither Nan nor Lily seemed to me to have the desire for any of it. 6d

Lcsmcat @CarolynM That‘s true. I was thinking more of the motivation to get married, than the ability to handle being married. 6d

Graywacke @CarolynM @Lcsmcat interesting comparisons. Wharton certainly has several different takes on marriage, and they aren‘t particularly inspiring. ? @CarolynM - Nan‘s situation is really sad, especially as Testvalley gave the warning clearly. The Duke didn‘t listen. His take on a relationships (thinking 740 should get him sex) is remarkably unaware. He just doesn‘t see what‘s going on with Nan. He can‘t. 6d

Graywacke I surrender. I read 8 pages of Mackworth-Young completion and it was awful. No more! 😳😁 6d

Graywacke @Currey - last four paragraphs of the Synopsis
- But though she (Nan, upon marrying Tintagel) is dazzled for the moment, her heart is not satisfed. The Duke is kindly but dull and arrogant, and the man she really loves is young Guy Thwarte, a poor offcer in the Guards, the son of Sir Helmsley Thwarte, whose old and wonderfully beautiful place in Gloucestershire, Honourslove, is the scene of a part of the story. 6d

Graywacke Sir Helmsley Thwarte, the widowed father of Guy, a clever, broken-down and bitter old worldling, is captivated by Miss Testvalley, and wants to marry her; but meanwhile the young Duchess of Tintagel has suddenly decided to leave her husband and go off with Guy, and it turns out that Laura Testvalley, moved by the youth and passion of the lovers, and disgusted by the mediocre Duke of Tintagel, … 6d

Graywacke … has secretly lent a hand in the planning of the elopement, the scandal of which is to ring through England for years. 6d

Graywacke - Sir Helmsley Thwarte discovers what is going on, and is so furious at his only son's being involved in such an adventure that, suspecting Miss Testvalley's complicity, he breaks with her, and the great old adventuress, seeing love, deep and abiding love, triumph for the first time in her career, helps Nan to join her lover, who has been ordered to South Africa, and then goes back alone to old age and poverty. 6d

Graywacke - The Elmsworth and Closson adventures will be interwoven with Nan's, and the setting will be aristocratic London in the season, and life in the great English country-houses as they were sixty years ago. 6d

jewright I finally caught up. I just feel sorry for Ushant and Nan. Both of them are unhappy and seem incapable of understanding the other. What a disaster. 2d

Currey @Graywacke @jewright @Lcsmcat I broke down and read the Marion Mainwaring finish of my edition. It was awful. It got all the main points across but did it in such a way that it might as well have been: and then Nan and Ushant….and then Testvalley and…awful. I know if Wharton had finished the novel it would have been bittersweet, with some coming together of love while losing much of what they valued including his inheritance. now

Currey @Grawywacke @jewright @Lcsmcat And Testvalley should have been heartbreaking now

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Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

The ruins of Tintagel castle in Cornwall

The Buccaneers - Book 2
#whartonbuddyread

Scene switch: We‘re in England, and new American wealth collides with English heirs. Nan has romantic interludes. Lady Churt confronts Seadown and Virginia. Then, Tintagle confronts Testvalley. What would you have liked Testvalley to say?

Where are you all with this, within your Wharton mindset?

Lcsmcat

Graywacke @AllDebooks @CarolynM @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @jewright @LapReader @Leftcoastzen @TheBookHippie 2w

Currey @Graywacke Well, I am having fun reading it. The themes of new money versus old money, and English class versus the class climbing Americans, is soap opera ish enjoyable. The book is a bit messy but maybe that is just the amount of characters one has to keep track of and who they are all being courted by. On the other hand, it doesn‘t really seem to have Wharton‘s core gravitas. A touch in Nan and Testvalley but everyone else are a bit thin. 2w

TheBookHippie I‘m having fun reading it. I‘ve also been binging American Viscountess on YouTube and she mentions often how very young American brides saved castles. This is more soap opera and not as sophisticated maybe as other books. Can‘t put my finger on it. It is however fun. I do love Nan. 2w

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Graywacke @Currey @TheBookHippie i agree with you both. Entertaining but light and soap opera-y. I ask myself, what is she trying to accomplish with this? And also, how much would she have kept if she had been able to finish and refine it. 2w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke @Currey @TheBookHippie I wonder how much stronger this would have been if it were a finished work. I‘ve not studied Wharton‘s writing practices enough to know how much rewriting she did. But also, was it unfinished because she wasn‘t that thrilled with it herself,or because she ran out of time? Does anyone know? 2w

Lcsmcat Love that you found a photo of the castle ruins! So cool. 2w

Lcsmcat I only highlighted one quote this time. It‘s about Nan. “she never felt herself matched against things greater than herself, but softly merged in them;” I think it does so much in one sentence to define her character. 2w

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat I have no idea, I did wonder if she would have totally reworked it. Was it just notes? I guess should look all this up… Have you seen the Apple TV version 😳… talk about reworked. 2w

Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie I haven‘t seen that one. I think the one I saw was the 1995 version. 2w

Graywacke Nan is practically un-dislikable. Everyone with taste loves her. 2w

Graywacke @TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat - i gave the series two episodes and abandoned it. This mixing of time period and contemporary was too much for me. The music had me completely out of touch. 2w

TheBookHippie @Graywacke It was ......something. WOWOWOWOWOW. The young people adore it.... 2w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Is it like the DiCaprio Romeo & Juliet where they are saying the lines about swords while holding pistols? 2w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat it‘s more like show how contemporary American attitudes can take over Victorian England. Well, that‘s where i stopped. 2w

Graywacke @TheBookHippie did it get better? 2w

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat it‘s like Bridgeton. (edited) 2w

TheBookHippie @Graywacke NO. New season coming soon. I‘m curious how it ends. At this point it‘s a creepy Bridgeton with pretty colors and current music… 2w

Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie 😂 2w

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat 😵‍💫 2w

Leftcoastzen I didn‘t finish book 2 as quickly as I would have liked. I agree , wondering if Wharton would have rewritten it, flushed some of the characters out more. Nan & Testvalley are the most interesting and have the usual Wharton depth..I do enjoy the Americans enjoying the really old houses & estates.The reactions of the English being appalled and then charmed by the difference in the American lifestyle. 2w

Graywacke @AllDebooks @Currey @Leftcoastzen @TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat - my 🦥 brain had a realization last night. We tend to sympathize with our main characters. From the British perspective, these American girls are real buccaneers, pirates looting the British of their titled bachelors. Hence the title. Perhaps we are reading about the villains? (edited) 2w

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen the cultural clashes are entertaining. And Testvalley‘s efforts to keep the girls oblivious, heightening the contrast, is entertaining in its own right. 2w

Currey I just started Book 3. This is not what I wanted for Nan at all!! 2w

Graywacke @Currey i had a shock moment too. It‘s sad. (That‘s also what led to my question. I started rethinking why. Then i thought of Nan as a reluctant pillager of England. The sentimental melancholic pirate. Well, it‘s a charming image, anyway) 2w

Currey @Graywacke - Yes, I see it now. A pirate has to do what a pirate has to do…. 2w

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Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

Getting started. #whartonbuddyread

Leftcoastzen Gotta join in ! 4w

Leftcoastzen 😻 4w

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen yay! Please do! 4w

50 likes3 comments

Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

Reminder - two weeks till next #whartonbuddyread 😍

Graywacke @AllDebooks @CarolynM @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @jewright @LapReader @Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie 1mo

Lcsmcat Looking forward to it! 1mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Wharton prose always settles my thinking. I‘m looking forward to that too. 1mo

See All 26 Comments

Graywacke By the way - i‘m only tagging anyone who has re-expressed interest. So we‘re at a group of 9 at the moment. 1mo

CatLass007 I‘ve never read any Edith Wharton before, but I do understand that she has written many books that are considered classics. Is there a master list for the books the group will be reading in 2025? Would you please add me to your tag list? Thank you. 1mo

TheBookHippie @Graywacke I‘m very happy to be reading this !!! 1mo

Graywacke @CatLass007 hi. There is a website called The Mount that has a lot of info. As for this group - we have read most of her works of fiction at this point. Buccaneers is actually her last novel, and also unfinished. We will read Fast & Loose, her first novel, published posthumously. And, i think, A Backward Glance, her memoir (that probably doesn‘t reveal anything). I‘m also hoping to read her biography by Hermione Lee. 1mo

Graywacke @CatLass007 You are certainly welcome to join us. By the way, the website is: https://www.edithwharton.org 1mo

Graywacke @TheBookHippie 🙂 1mo

CarolynM Looking forward to it.🙂 1mo

AllDebooks Thanks for the reminder. Looking forward to it. I loved the tv show. 1mo

CatLass007 Thank you. 1mo

Graywacke @CarolynM @AllDebooks 💙 1mo

Graywacke @CatLass007 you‘re welcome. Let me know if you decide to join in. 1mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke @CatLass007 Weren‘t we also going to read the novella The Bunner Sisters, or am I misremembering? 1mo

CatLass007 @Graywacke @Lcsmcat I think that since you‘re wrapping up your Wharton buddy read, I won‘t be joining in, especially since The Buccaneers is not available in audio format from my library and and it‘s one of the few Wharton books that‘s not free on Audible. That‘s been my format of choice for the last few years. 1mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I keep forgetting those poor sisters… no, you‘re not misremembering. 1mo

Graywacke @CatLass007 bummer about Buccaneer audio access. I‘m curious where you will begin your own Wharton journey. You have such wonderful reading ahead. I think each reader might have their own answer on where to start, but my own suggestion is to begin with House of Mirth. (Wonder who reads it) 1mo

CatLass007 There are seven renditions of The House of Mirth on Audible, two of which are free. One is narrated by Anna Fields and the other is narrated by Eleanor Bron. I am not familiar with either narrator so I probably will listen to a sample of each and then decide. Thank you for your advice. I think with seven different narratives from which to choose, your advice is sound. 1mo

CatLass007 And it seems the version narrated by Anna Fields is no longer free. So, decision made. 1mo

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen - i hadn‘t tagged you here 4w

Leftcoastzen Yes , I was a Wharton world dropout for a couple of the titles ! 4w

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen it‘s nice to have you back 🙂 4w

Currey Yes, I am hanging in until we get to “those sisters”. I would also like to read a biography. 4w

Graywacke @Currey maybe we should read them next? @Lcsmcat ? 4w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Sure. I‘m game. 4w

44 likes26 comments

CarolynM

Hudson River Bracketed | Edith Wharton

pick

Catch up review from mid year 5/5

I‘m reviewing these 2 together because they are 2 parts of a whole. The tagged book follows the early career of a young man from a small town who achieves literary success but struggles in society. In the sequel (tagged in comments) he struggles to replicate that success while travelling through Europe with his mistress. In both books he is oblivious to making a lot of people unhappy.

Read for #WhartonBuddyRead

CarolynM

The Gods Arrive

2mo

54 likes1 comment

LitsyEvents

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

repost for @Graywacke:

- #whartonbuddyread
- Feb 1 - Book 1
- Feb 8 - Book 2
- Feb 15 - Book 3

An unfinished novel. We‘ll discuss book 1 in six weeks.

#BuddyRead

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Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

- #whartonbuddyread
- Feb 1 - Book 1
- Feb 8 - Book 2
- Feb 15 - Book 3

An unfinished novel. We‘ll discuss book 1 in six weeks.

Lcsmcat, Currey

Graywacke @AllDebooks @amysisson @Ann_Reads @arubabookwoman @batsy @BookishTrish @CarolynM @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @Cathythoughts @cindyash @Crazeedi 2mo

Graywacke @dabbe @Daisey @emilyhaldi @IMASLOWREADER @IndoorDame @jewright @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie 2mo

Graywacke @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Suet624 @Tamra @TheBookHippie @willaful 2mo

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Graywacke Special request - let me know if you want to continue to be tagged. I think i tagged everyone who has been involved in the #Whartonbuddyread in the past. But the interest in this late unfinished novel might a lot less than normal - which is fine. (edited) 2mo

Currey @Graywacke I am in. 2mo

IMASLOWREADER yes pls tnx 2mo

CarolynM I‘m in. Thanks Dan. 2mo

Suet624 I seem to have abandoned Wharton. 🥴 2mo

AllDebooks I really enjoyed the recent tv series. I'm in! 2mo

Lcsmcat Looking forward to it! 2mo

Liz_M @LitsyEvents 2mo

Graywacke @Suet624 that‘s ok. (She‘ll forgive you ☺️) 2mo

Graywacke @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @CarolynM @AllDebooks @Lcsmcat wonderful! ❤️ 2mo

Suet624 @Graywacke it makes me sad though. 2mo

Graywacke @Suet624 hugs. Wharton is always there when the mood strikes. 2mo

LapReader I‘m keen. 2mo

Graywacke @LapReader hi. Fantastic. I‘ll add you 2mo

Graywacke @TheBookHippie @jewright hi guys. Let me know whether you‘ll join in for this one. No pressure, just you guys are regulars. (Ok, and i‘ll miss you if you don‘t join. ☺️) 2mo

TheBookHippie Oh yes!!!!! I have a pretty shiny new copy and I watched this on Apple TV 🫣🫠 recently … so I needed a new copy to read it. 2mo

Graywacke @TheBookHippie yay. I tried the TV series. Got about two episodes in. The music was just so jarring for the period piece. 2mo

jewright I‘m in, please! 2mo

Graywacke @jewright oh good. Happy to see that 2mo

jewright @Graywacke I‘ve so enjoyed reading Wharton in this group. 2mo

Graywacke @jewright ❤️ me too! 2mo

34 likes24 comments

Currey

The Bunner Sisters | Edith Wharton

#whartonbuddyread
Hello and Happy Holidays to all. I was wondering if we are going to continue or take a break until the New Year. Also, are there many more books to go? Maybe The Gods was her last?

Lcsmcat, Graywacke

Lcsmcat The Buccaneers was her last written (and unfinished) novel, but Fast and Loose was published last. I‘m fine with waiting until January - December is really busy for me - but will make time for it if others want to read in December. 3mo

Graywacke Thanks for the nudge. I‘m thinking Buccaneers in January at a slow pace because i made conflicting plans. There‘s also A Backward Glance. And i was wondering there might be interest in the Hermione Lee biography. @Lcsmcat 3mo

Currey Great. I will assume a Wharton starting in January. Have a wonderful December. 3mo

9 likes3 comments

Graywacke

The Gods Arrive | Edith Wharton

pick

Not sure exactly what Wharton was doing here as her artist wanders through all sorts of writing and social circumstances, and his one time muse, now lover, gets neglected, left behind, forgotten. I waited for her seek independence, but Wharton wasn‘t writing for me. I merely got a wink. Still, it‘s pleasant reading. #whartonbuddyread @Lcsmcat

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