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9 Lessons in Brexit
9 Lessons in Brexit | Ivan Rogers
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Remember the words of Ivan Rogers the next time you hear some plausible posh boy in a suit telling you no deal wouldnt hurt at all and might even be a jolly good thing. J.K. Rowling Two and a half years after Britain voted to leave the European Union, the political debate over Brexit seems as intense and as complicated as ever. Who and what can we trust? And how on earth do we make sense of it all? Ivan Rogers, the UKs former ambassador to the EU, is uniquely placed to tell some home truths about the failure of the British political class and the flaws, dishonesty and confusion inherent in the UKs approach to Brexit so far. In this short, elegant essay, Rogers draws up nine lessons that we, as a soon-to-be third country, need to learn from the last few years, if the next few years indeed the next decade are not to be even more painful.
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9 Lessons in Brexit | Ivan Rogers
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I hadn‘t intended to read this one, but it was a freebie on Amazon, which is always a winner! I‘ve been looking forward to using this bath bomb all week and it was definitely worth the wait! It‘s a Lush Geode and has very fine gold glitter that swirls and ripples in the water. The smell is amazing too! It almost makes reading about the shitshow that is Brexit bearable! Almost... 🛀 🧼 🛁 📖 📚 🇬🇧 ⭐️ 💣

9 Lessons in Brexit | Ivan Rogers
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So I read this at work the other night and was expecting to be posting a lot of angry quotes from it but I just don‘t have it in me right now.
It‘s a short book based on a lecture he gave and covers some of the main problems we will have with the actual process of leaving. I found this quite neutral on politics although I doubt many leavers would think think so and I saw this in a few reviews on Amazon.

Weaponxgirl I need to be honest and say I‘m not someone who understands economics so some of what he is talking about goes straight over my head. I‘m just someone who thinks that if someone is saying something that sounds to good to be true (like all the magical trade deals we will suddenly get when we leave the eu) then it probably is. I will generally trust professionals in their opinion when the general consensus seems to be something is a bad idea. (edited) 7mo
Weaponxgirl He talks about the fallacy of brexit means brexit which has always been a sticking point for me. People didn‘t necessarily vote for a no deal brexit and this is a dishonest representation of the referendum and how other countries are also sovereign states and will look out for their best interests too. They aren‘t suddenly going to be bending over backwards for us like some people seem to be making out. 7mo
Weaponxgirl Mostly I‘m just tired and upset and I can‘t imagine how it must look to someone like the author who has a great deal of knowledge on the subject. Mostly he does a good job at showing how this isn‘t a simple thing to do or talk about and that has been how I wish talks about this whole debacle could have been carried out throughout. Rather than the shouting match we seem to have atm with some people shouting they are right, the will of the people 7mo
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Weaponxgirl And how anyone saying anything else is just being pessimistic and traitorous to democracy. 7mo
CarolynM Re your 2nd comment - Exactly. (edited) 7mo
Weaponxgirl @CarolynM it‘s scary how toxic even talking about it has become. I kinda feel bad posting it on here tbh as I know this is a place others use to get away from politics and how stressful they are in the world right now. 7mo
GingerAntics It‘s amazing how quickly so many things have become so very decisive. It‘s like every major, first world country has something and the whole bloody world knows about it, too. 7mo
Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics yes! And just how badly we are all handling these things. 7mo
GingerAntics Right? It‘s a miracle the whole western world hasn‘t had a collective aneurism or coronary or something. So much freakin stress, and walking on egg shells to make sure you don‘t say the wrong thing to the wrong person because you know all hell will break loose if you do. 🙄 It‘s exhausting. 7mo
sisilia I‘m trading the currencies and have long given up any hope for any positive developments 😅 7mo
Emilymdxn I‘m with you on all of that. Having any kind of conversation about brexit has just got so exhausting and frightening. I‘m so afraid of ending up in conversation with leavers cause I‘m just miserable and exhausted 7mo
Weaponxgirl @sisilia so have I! 7mo
Weaponxgirl @Emilymdxn same, it‘s impossible to talk to people when we can‘t all agree on facts and the truth that we are even starting on. 7mo
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9 Lessons in Brexit | Ivan Rogers
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Look what just became available from my libraries overdrive account. You all ready for some rage and sadness from me?

Lynnsoprano We‘ve had some interesting conversations with people we‘ve met during our trips to England the last couple of years. Looking forward to reading your posts about this. 7mo
TrishB Makes me so angry 😡 7mo
Weaponxgirl @Lynnsoprano it‘s a hard situation, mainly from the disinformation and false promises that are being made. I‘m very much a remainer but would like to be able to actually discuss it properly rather than just stand there slack jawed going “you believe that?” 7mo
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Weaponxgirl @TrishB you and me both! I feel it‘s time to sharpen my knowledge 7mo
Lynnsoprano @Weaponxgirl Most of the people we spoke with were remain, as well. From my perspective, leaving doesn‘t make sense. It sounds like it‘s trying to talk to a Trump supporter. Not good for my blood pressure 😂 7mo
Herschelian Hello, another Remainer here! I dread the effect leaving will have, but as you both say, trying to have a reasoned discussion with a Leaver is well nigh impossible - it‘s like they are brainwashed members of a cult.☹️☹️☹️ 7mo
kathedron It's a horrible, painful situation. My next door neighbour and my dearest friend are both leavers: I can't bear talking about it anymore. 7mo
GingerAntics Let‘s do this thing!!! 7mo
AlaMich Everything that you UK folks say about Brexit and the divide in your country are exactly the things we here in the US say about those who voted for Trump and those who are terrified of the direction we are going in. Sorry for the run-on sentence there. 7mo
SW-T 😢How can anyone not be angry? Look forward to your posts. 7mo
CarolynM From the outside, the arguments for Brexit look like delusion. I can't understand how anyone thinks they'll be better off. 7mo
Weaponxgirl @Lynnsoprano it‘s hard when someone is throwing false facts and opinions out. You can‘t reason with someone who doesn‘t believe the experts but does believe farage. Who trump has praised in the past so that kinda tells you what you need to know really. 7mo
Weaponxgirl @Herschelian tell me about it! I was in a conversation with one the other day who doesn‘t think that climate change is a big deal either. Threw in the older than me so I should listen to them too. Kinda frustrating as I‘m in my 30s now and I haven‘t heard that one in a while 😫 7mo
Weaponxgirl @AlaMich no worries on that. It‘s how it feels to me, I have so much sympathy for you guys too. It has exposed a dark underbelly to this country that left me rocked to my core. I was never a nationalistic kind of person but I did used to be proud of how multicultural and mostly tolerant we were (not without problems obviously) now I just feel sad. 7mo
Weaponxgirl @SW-T everyone is angry, just all for different reasons unfortunately. 7mo
Weaponxgirl @kathedron I understand, my dad is on the leave side and unfortunately we have had rows about it. He tries to use the daily mail as a source sometimes and it never ends well. 7mo
Weaponxgirl @CarolynM it‘s as deluded as building a wall and making Mexico pay for it methinks. 7mo
SW-T @Weaponxgirl Sadly, yes 😢 7mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @AlaMich I honestly think when the dust clears, probably long from now, there will be significant evidence that Russia manipulated both of those votes to cause chaos. The lengths they went to here, which only a few who read the report know, are scary... but the propagated disinformation and disbelief of the other side, organized actual rallies against, massive social media campaigns, etc... 7mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ...I think it‘s why Trumpers and Leavers seem to be showing the same entrenchment to discussion. They were all prey to the same manipulation machine. And considering how effective it was, and how little blowback they‘ve gotten, they‘ll be back with more cyber warfare in the future too. 7mo
AlaMich @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I think you‘re absolutely right. I have a coworker, a trump supporter, who considers all of it to be a “difference in political views.” No, that‘s what you have when everyone is working with the same set of facts. Our current situation is so far beyond that, she just can‘t comprehend. 7mo
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