WhartonbuddyRead

Whose up for a buddy read of this? It‘s 100 pages. I suggest we chat July 26, in one month.

#whartonbuddyread

@AllDebooks @CarolynM @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @jewright @LapReader @Lcsmcat @Leftcoastzen @TheBookHippie

Lcsmcat I‘m in, although I may comment late. The 26th is my Mom‘s 90th birthday celebration. Thirty people, four generations, lots of food! 10h

dabbe @Lcsmcat How cool is this? Happiest of birthdays to your mom! 🤩😍🤩 9h

Graywacke @Lcsmcat wow. That‘s really special. We‘ll celebrate for her a little here in Litsy. 9h

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Currey @Lcsmcat How wonderful. I hope you got her genes and fortitude!! 9h

Currey @Graywacke Absolutely I am in and that day is good for me. 9h

Lcsmcat @dabbe @Graywacke Thanks! And yes, @Currey I hope so too. She is still very independent. 9h

IMASLOWREADER me🙋🏻‍♀️ 7h

CarolynM I'm in. Thanks Dan 6h

Graywacke @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @CarolynM Great news guys! 5h

jewright I‘m in, please! 4h

Graywacke @jewright how did i not tag you? !! I‘m really glad you found this post 3h

Graywacke @jewright ok. Sorry. I did tag you. I feel better. Disregard… 3h

Leftcoastzen I would like to join in ! 2h

28 likes13 comments

CarolynM

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

pick

Wharton‘s last, unfinished novel explores the experience of wealthy American girls, shunned by New York society, who go on to marry into the British aristocracy. While the toffs like the money and the girls like the feeling that they have beaten NY, the culture clash prohibits marital harmony. Wharton‘s writing is as glittering as ever & it is a great shame that we will never know how she would have developed her intended story. #WhartonBuddyRead

Rissreadswithcats This sounds so good but I hate not knowing the outcome of things. I can‘t watch those true crime shows unless there is an outcome. Unsolved mysteries do my head in! 3mo

57 likes1 comment

Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

so-so

Wharton never finished this, and she never reached the really dramatic parts she sketched out in her synopsis. The title refers to rich American young girls who in the 1870's raided the English nobility for marriages like pirates. We follow 5 girls rejected by NY society. One, Nan, has a special governess who advises they go to England. They all do and we get to a darker part of the story before the manuscript stops.
#whartonbuddyread

Lcsmcat, CarolynM, TheBookHippie, Leftcoastzen, Currey, jewright, AllDebooks

CarolynM Great review. And thanks for the reminder that I need to post a review of this one too🙂 4mo

53 likes1 comment

Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

The Buccaneers - the unwritten conclusion
- #whartonbuddyread

Wharton never finished this. Her manuscript ends with Book 3. She had written a synopsis and others have filled in completions.

I found my copy‘s completion unreadable. I read 8 pages and quit.

I think the synopsis changes and reveals themes. The book is no longer about a playful clash of cultures, but about love struggles, sacrifice and loneliness. Themes Wharton lived. Thoughts?

Lcsmcat

Graywacke Sorry for the really late post guys, i wasn‘t reading anymore and forgot! 🙈🙁 4mo

Graywacke @AllDebooks @CarolynM @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @jewright @LapReader @Leftcoastzen @TheBookHippie 4mo

CarolynM At the end of my book is a synopsis for the whole of the novel, with only 2 paragraphs for the unfinished part. It seems to me that the written part strayed from the synopsis, so the story could well have become something other than the original idea. 4mo

See All 12 Comments

Graywacke @CarolynM I noticed that too. Good point. Any thoughts on where it was going? 4mo

Lcsmcat I agree that you‘re right about the themes - the culture clash is part of what causes the misunderstandings that cause the misery of the marriages, but isn‘t the main point. It‘s classic Wharton unhappy marriage plot, but what shone out to me was how well she depicted female friendship. That part seemed new to me. 4mo

CarolynM If the synopsis is to be believed, Miss Testavalley was going to have a story of her own, as well as her involvement with Nan. I wonder if EW might have been planning to contrast a love story that ends happily because the lovers abandon respectability, with a love story that ends sadly because the lovers won‘t or can‘t do so. 4mo

Lcsmcat @CarolynM I wish we could read her ending! 4mo

TheBookHippie Sorry missed last week! I agree about female friendships, seemed more intimately connected and important? At any rate I‘m with @Graywacke I read a bit of the “ending” and bailed 😵‍💫🤪 I too wish we knew where she was going with it. And I like your idea @CarolynM 4mo

TheBookHippie I think loneliness seeps through the pages… 4mo

Graywacke @TheBookHippie I posted the relevant synopsis in last weeks comments (under spoiler skull thingy) 4mo

TheBookHippie @Graywacke ah thx!!! 4mo

jewright I wish she would have finished this one. It‘s so hard to say exactly what would have happened. 4mo

49 likes12 comments

Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

The Buccaneers - Book 3
#whartonbuddyread

Ok, 1st of all, I didn‘t see that marriage happening. What a devastating way to open book 3.

2nd - that‘s the end of Wharton‘s draft.

3rd - but she also left a synopsis. So we know what is going to happen. But that‘s looking ahead.

4th - so, Book 3 - thoughts on Longlands, Ushant, Dowager, Thwarte, Conchita, Testvalley, Lizzy Robinson?

5th - completion plan next week. See comments.

Lcsmcat

Graywacke Completion plan: as Wharton left a synopsis, there are a couple completions. We can discuss them Saturday Feb 22 - synopsis, completion, and the overall themes they reveal. Sound ok? (edited) 4mo

Graywacke Note: My edition has a completion based on a 1990‘s television take - but doesn‘t follow the tv script, because that script changes the plot and makes Ushant openly gay (something possible but not openly suggested). It‘s a hundred pages. I admit I‘m not super enthused to read it, but willing to give it a try. Still I definitely want to discuss overarching themes. (edited) 4mo

Graywacke @AllDebooks @CarolynM @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @jewright @LapReader @Lcsmcat @Leftcoastzen @TheBookHippie 4mo

See All 39 Comments

Currey @Graywacke I also was upset that Nan married as she did and that it further diminished her self confidence and quirky nature so much. I rather like the fact that Testvalley was given a romantic role. Having read so much Wharton now, it does not feel as if she intended everyone to live happily ever after. The best we can hope for is for Nan to gain some self confidence. 4mo

Currey @Graywacke - my book does not have the synopsis but an ending written by someone else. Can you share where to find synopsis? I do not want to read a TV ending. 4mo

Currey @Graywacke I read that Wharton based Lizzy on the mother of Winston Churchill. There are many paintings of her and she was quite beautiful (in the paintings) and known to be intelligent, and ambitious for her husband and son. 4mo

Graywacke @Currey Lizzy is Winston‘s mom?!! Wharton noticed Winston‘s mom in the 1930‘s? !! 4mo

Currey @Graywacke https://images.app.goo.gl/23FsvTmYugGQPNu36 4mo

Graywacke @Currey if i can find the synopsis online, i‘ll share a link. It‘s six pages, so tough to share here. I‘m happy to photograph the pages and email anyone interested. Email me at: dan iel . chaikin @ gmail . com (without spaces) 4mo

Graywacke @Currey she was gorgeous. Was she American? 4mo

Graywacke @Currey clearly yes. What a character. Premarital pregnancy, many lovers rumored. I‘m intrigued! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Randolph_Churchill 4mo

Graywacke Amongst his biographers, there are varied opinions on whether he was conceived before the marriage, or born two months prematurely after Lady Randolph "had a fall." When asked about the circumstances of his birth, Winston Churchill replied: "Although present on the occasion, I have no clear recollection of the events leading up to it." 4mo

Currey @Graywacke Yes, quite the beauty and quite the social manipulator for her own ends. Love the Winston quote. 4mo

Lcsmcat Once again I‘m behind. 🙄 But yeah, I saw that marriage coming the way you see an accident happening and can‘t stop it. 😀 4mo

Lcsmcat Wharton‘s negative view of marriage is on full display, but I‘m also getting conflicting emotions from her on the old vs. new we saw in Hudson River Bracketed. Quote below 4mo

Lcsmcat “At least life in England had a background, layers and layers of rich deep background, of history, poetry, old traditional observances, beautiful houses, beautiful landscapes, beautiful ancient buildings, palaces, churches, cathedrals.” 4mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat about the marriage… i kind of wanted a next step by Ushant. Clearly he did not listen to Laura Testvalley. 4mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat my introduction argues that Wharton appreciated the value of marriage. But she had a bad marriage. It also makes parallels between Nan and Wharton (unhappy marriage), and between Testvalley and Wharton (unmarried in middle age). (It also confirmed my Buccaneers explanation mentioned late in last week‘s post. Although I suspect you and others had already worked that out) 4mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke And one wonders if she were offering an alternative to Henry James‘ The Ambassadors? 4mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat tell more! I haven‘t read James 4mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I don‘t remember a lot about it but it‘s also about the Europe is better than America and all cultured Americans are that way because they follow Europe‘s lead. It‘s more from the male point of view, and I don‘t remember it having the depth of feeling in the female characters that Buccaneers has. 4mo

CarolynM I found this last Book rather sad. In some ways Nan reminded me of Lily Bart, but here she gave in to the “need” for marriage and the consequences were tragic in their own way. The social and cultural misunderstandings also made me think of a modern American duchess… My ebook contains a brief synopsis at the end, only 2 paragraphs sketch out the intended ending. It would have been interesting to see how she would have developed it. 4mo

Lcsmcat @CarolynM I saw Nan as more like Halo. She went into the marriage thinking it was a live match, and then discovered her husband‘s true personality. 4mo

CarolynM @Lcsmcat I think Halo was much more sophisticated and equipped to carry out the wifely role both public and private. Neither Nan nor Lily seemed to me to have the desire for any of it. 4mo

Lcsmcat @CarolynM That‘s true. I was thinking more of the motivation to get married, than the ability to handle being married. 4mo

Graywacke @CarolynM @Lcsmcat interesting comparisons. Wharton certainly has several different takes on marriage, and they aren‘t particularly inspiring. ? @CarolynM - Nan‘s situation is really sad, especially as Testvalley gave the warning clearly. The Duke didn‘t listen. His take on a relationships (thinking 740 should get him sex) is remarkably unaware. He just doesn‘t see what‘s going on with Nan. He can‘t. 4mo

Graywacke I surrender. I read 8 pages of Mackworth-Young completion and it was awful. No more! 😳😁 4mo

Graywacke @Currey - last four paragraphs of the Synopsis
- But though she (Nan, upon marrying Tintagel) is dazzled for the moment, her heart is not satisfed. The Duke is kindly but dull and arrogant, and the man she really loves is young Guy Thwarte, a poor offcer in the Guards, the son of Sir Helmsley Thwarte, whose old and wonderfully beautiful place in Gloucestershire, Honourslove, is the scene of a part of the story. 4mo

Graywacke Sir Helmsley Thwarte, the widowed father of Guy, a clever, broken-down and bitter old worldling, is captivated by Miss Testvalley, and wants to marry her; but meanwhile the young Duchess of Tintagel has suddenly decided to leave her husband and go off with Guy, and it turns out that Laura Testvalley, moved by the youth and passion of the lovers, and disgusted by the mediocre Duke of Tintagel, … 4mo

Graywacke … has secretly lent a hand in the planning of the elopement, the scandal of which is to ring through England for years. 4mo

Graywacke - Sir Helmsley Thwarte discovers what is going on, and is so furious at his only son's being involved in such an adventure that, suspecting Miss Testvalley's complicity, he breaks with her, and the great old adventuress, seeing love, deep and abiding love, triumph for the first time in her career, helps Nan to join her lover, who has been ordered to South Africa, and then goes back alone to old age and poverty. 4mo

Graywacke - The Elmsworth and Closson adventures will be interwoven with Nan's, and the setting will be aristocratic London in the season, and life in the great English country-houses as they were sixty years ago. 4mo

jewright I finally caught up. I just feel sorry for Ushant and Nan. Both of them are unhappy and seem incapable of understanding the other. What a disaster. 4mo

Currey @Graywacke @jewright @Lcsmcat I broke down and read the Marion Mainwaring finish of my edition. It was awful. It got all the main points across but did it in such a way that it might as well have been: and then Nan and Ushant….and then Testvalley and…awful. I know if Wharton had finished the novel it would have been bittersweet, with some coming together of love while losing much of what they valued including his inheritance. 4mo

Currey @Grawywacke @jewright @Lcsmcat And Testvalley should have been heartbreaking 4mo

Lcsmcat @Currey I‘m glad I didn‘t rush out and buy a “finished” version! Mine ends with Wharton‘s outline, but very perfunctory, as an outline should be. And yes, lots of heartbreak to go around, but especially Testvalley who was heartbroken for herself and her Nan. 4mo

Graywacke @jewright it‘s really sad - the marriage. Hopeless. 4mo

Graywacke @Currey you‘re a masochist. One thing my 8 pages of completion reminded of, is that Wharton could write. She makes stuff look easy, but she has a sense of drama, and manages nuance expertly 4mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat that seems to be the best way to end it. 4mo

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Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

The ruins of Tintagel castle in Cornwall

The Buccaneers - Book 2
#whartonbuddyread

Scene switch: We‘re in England, and new American wealth collides with English heirs. Nan has romantic interludes. Lady Churt confronts Seadown and Virginia. Then, Tintagle confronts Testvalley. What would you have liked Testvalley to say?

Where are you all with this, within your Wharton mindset?

Lcsmcat

Graywacke @AllDebooks @CarolynM @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @jewright @LapReader @Leftcoastzen @TheBookHippie 5mo

Currey @Graywacke Well, I am having fun reading it. The themes of new money versus old money, and English class versus the class climbing Americans, is soap opera ish enjoyable. The book is a bit messy but maybe that is just the amount of characters one has to keep track of and who they are all being courted by. On the other hand, it doesn‘t really seem to have Wharton‘s core gravitas. A touch in Nan and Testvalley but everyone else are a bit thin. 5mo

TheBookHippie I‘m having fun reading it. I‘ve also been binging American Viscountess on YouTube and she mentions often how very young American brides saved castles. This is more soap opera and not as sophisticated maybe as other books. Can‘t put my finger on it. It is however fun. I do love Nan. 5mo

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Graywacke @Currey @TheBookHippie i agree with you both. Entertaining but light and soap opera-y. I ask myself, what is she trying to accomplish with this? And also, how much would she have kept if she had been able to finish and refine it. 5mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke @Currey @TheBookHippie I wonder how much stronger this would have been if it were a finished work. I‘ve not studied Wharton‘s writing practices enough to know how much rewriting she did. But also, was it unfinished because she wasn‘t that thrilled with it herself,or because she ran out of time? Does anyone know? 5mo

Lcsmcat Love that you found a photo of the castle ruins! So cool. 5mo

Lcsmcat I only highlighted one quote this time. It‘s about Nan. “she never felt herself matched against things greater than herself, but softly merged in them;” I think it does so much in one sentence to define her character. 5mo

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat I have no idea, I did wonder if she would have totally reworked it. Was it just notes? I guess should look all this up… Have you seen the Apple TV version 😳… talk about reworked. 5mo

Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie I haven‘t seen that one. I think the one I saw was the 1995 version. 5mo

Graywacke Nan is practically un-dislikable. Everyone with taste loves her. 5mo

Graywacke @TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat - i gave the series two episodes and abandoned it. This mixing of time period and contemporary was too much for me. The music had me completely out of touch. 5mo

TheBookHippie @Graywacke It was ......something. WOWOWOWOWOW. The young people adore it.... 5mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Is it like the DiCaprio Romeo & Juliet where they are saying the lines about swords while holding pistols? 5mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat it‘s more like show how contemporary American attitudes can take over Victorian England. Well, that‘s where i stopped. 5mo

Graywacke @TheBookHippie did it get better? 5mo

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat it‘s like Bridgeton. (edited) 5mo

TheBookHippie @Graywacke NO. New season coming soon. I‘m curious how it ends. At this point it‘s a creepy Bridgeton with pretty colors and current music… 5mo

Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie 😂 5mo

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat 😵‍💫 5mo

Leftcoastzen I didn‘t finish book 2 as quickly as I would have liked. I agree , wondering if Wharton would have rewritten it, flushed some of the characters out more. Nan & Testvalley are the most interesting and have the usual Wharton depth..I do enjoy the Americans enjoying the really old houses & estates.The reactions of the English being appalled and then charmed by the difference in the American lifestyle. 5mo

Graywacke @AllDebooks @Currey @Leftcoastzen @TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat - my 🦥 brain had a realization last night. We tend to sympathize with our main characters. From the British perspective, these American girls are real buccaneers, pirates looting the British of their titled bachelors. Hence the title. Perhaps we are reading about the villains? (edited) 5mo

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen the cultural clashes are entertaining. And Testvalley‘s efforts to keep the girls oblivious, heightening the contrast, is entertaining in its own right. 5mo

Currey I just started Book 3. This is not what I wanted for Nan at all!! 5mo

Graywacke @Currey i had a shock moment too. It‘s sad. (That‘s also what led to my question. I started rethinking why. Then i thought of Nan as a reluctant pillager of England. The sentimental melancholic pirate. Well, it‘s a charming image, anyway) 5mo

Currey @Graywacke - Yes, I see it now. A pirate has to do what a pirate has to do…. 5mo

Leftcoastzen Late to the party. Doubt I can finish the “finished “ version judging by the comments. I liked the contrasts between American & English styles , and was sad about the marriage that was doomed from the onset. Not her best work but I wish for a finished Wharton version. 4mo

Leftcoastzen I never attempted the show ! 🙄😂 I‘m all for let Bridgerton be Bridgerton , but don‘t want Wharton mixed up in all that! 😏 4mo

41 likes27 comments

Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

Getting started. #whartonbuddyread

Leftcoastzen Gotta join in ! 5mo

Leftcoastzen 😻 5mo

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen yay! Please do! 5mo

50 likes3 comments

Graywacke

The Buccaneers: A Novel | Edith Wharton

Reminder - two weeks till next #whartonbuddyread 😍

Graywacke @AllDebooks @CarolynM @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @jewright @LapReader @Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie 5mo

Lcsmcat Looking forward to it! 5mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Wharton prose always settles my thinking. I‘m looking forward to that too. 5mo

See All 26 Comments

Graywacke By the way - i‘m only tagging anyone who has re-expressed interest. So we‘re at a group of 9 at the moment. 5mo

CatLass007 I‘ve never read any Edith Wharton before, but I do understand that she has written many books that are considered classics. Is there a master list for the books the group will be reading in 2025? Would you please add me to your tag list? Thank you. 5mo

TheBookHippie @Graywacke I‘m very happy to be reading this !!! 5mo

Graywacke @CatLass007 hi. There is a website called The Mount that has a lot of info. As for this group - we have read most of her works of fiction at this point. Buccaneers is actually her last novel, and also unfinished. We will read Fast & Loose, her first novel, published posthumously. And, i think, A Backward Glance, her memoir (that probably doesn‘t reveal anything). I‘m also hoping to read her biography by Hermione Lee. 5mo

Graywacke @CatLass007 You are certainly welcome to join us. By the way, the website is: https://www.edithwharton.org 5mo

Graywacke @TheBookHippie 🙂 5mo

CarolynM Looking forward to it.🙂 5mo

AllDebooks Thanks for the reminder. Looking forward to it. I loved the tv show. 5mo

CatLass007 Thank you. 5mo

Graywacke @CarolynM @AllDebooks 💙 5mo

Graywacke @CatLass007 you‘re welcome. Let me know if you decide to join in. 5mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke @CatLass007 Weren‘t we also going to read the novella The Bunner Sisters, or am I misremembering? 5mo

CatLass007 @Graywacke @Lcsmcat I think that since you‘re wrapping up your Wharton buddy read, I won‘t be joining in, especially since The Buccaneers is not available in audio format from my library and and it‘s one of the few Wharton books that‘s not free on Audible. That‘s been my format of choice for the last few years. 5mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I keep forgetting those poor sisters… no, you‘re not misremembering. 5mo

Graywacke @CatLass007 bummer about Buccaneer audio access. I‘m curious where you will begin your own Wharton journey. You have such wonderful reading ahead. I think each reader might have their own answer on where to start, but my own suggestion is to begin with House of Mirth. (Wonder who reads it) 5mo

CatLass007 There are seven renditions of The House of Mirth on Audible, two of which are free. One is narrated by Anna Fields and the other is narrated by Eleanor Bron. I am not familiar with either narrator so I probably will listen to a sample of each and then decide. Thank you for your advice. I think with seven different narratives from which to choose, your advice is sound. 5mo

CatLass007 And it seems the version narrated by Anna Fields is no longer free. So, decision made. 5mo

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen - i hadn‘t tagged you here 5mo

Leftcoastzen Yes , I was a Wharton world dropout for a couple of the titles ! 5mo

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen it‘s nice to have you back 🙂 5mo

Currey Yes, I am hanging in until we get to “those sisters”. I would also like to read a biography. 5mo

Graywacke @Currey maybe we should read them next? @Lcsmcat ? 5mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Sure. I‘m game. 5mo

44 likes26 comments

CarolynM

Hudson River Bracketed | Edith Wharton

pick

Catch up review from mid year 5/5

I‘m reviewing these 2 together because they are 2 parts of a whole. The tagged book follows the early career of a young man from a small town who achieves literary success but struggles in society. In the sequel (tagged in comments) he struggles to replicate that success while travelling through Europe with his mistress. In both books he is oblivious to making a lot of people unhappy.

Read for #WhartonBuddyRead

CarolynM

The Gods Arrive

6mo

54 likes1 comment

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