DeadPhilosophersSociety

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

This post contains spoilers

Has ‘political correctness‘ gone too far? Is there any such thing as ‘politically correct‘ or is it just human decency?
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 @DrSabrinaMoldenReads @TheBookHippie

TheBookHippie Human decency has left the building. The wheels are off the bus. Decorum gone. Politically - correctness left awhile ago. I do think it should be decency moral ethical …. Honestly politeness got us here and it needs to stop. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I get the sentiment of it all. It‘s just not being practiced. And I don‘t think it ever was. It was all a long game to get here. But yes if you think of decorum there did use to be politeness. Across the aisle work. 6d

kspenmoll I agree with @TheBookHippie such politically correctness can be used as a tool to declare how anti whatever someone is. We went thru training years ago at work & those I would consider racist/sexist in certain ways,did not see not see themselves that way at all.Totally believed in their perception.I remember one student calling out US history teacher for not teaching about any indigenous people unless they were warriors scalping whites, or⬇️ 6d

kspenmoll ⬆️ or women - or black hispanic history except in wars- never got out of the 1950s. He retired a few years ago… Now all that has changed. 6d

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TheBookHippie @kspenmoll YES!!! Great examples! 6d

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie yes to both of you. Yes to all of this. We need to stop trying to be polite and stop giving the benefit of the doubt. Take people at their word, because people are being stunningly honest about their intentions and thoughts right now. They‘re saying the quiet part loud and proud. I hate to say these folks need to have their feelings hurt, but they do. Your feelings are harming others in very physical, real, life and death 5d

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie ways. Getting just their feelings hurt is fine. We need to stop trying to convince people. We need to stop hoping people will “come around.” We need to be direct. We need to be brutally honest. We need to stop accepting intolerance in the name of acceptance and tolerance. 5d

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics EXACTLY. Decorum is currently dead. 5d

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GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

This post contains spoilers

show me

Can you be racist to a white person?
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 @DrSabrinaMoldenReads @TheBookHippie
Sorry I didn‘t post earlier. I‘m still getting my brain working today.

TheBookHippie I don‘t think so. Privilege at the end of the day. I understand people‘s arguments. I just don‘t think so. White for being just white nothing else. At the end of the day, being white is your privilege. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I agree. Also “Karen” is neither sexist nor racist. I think the answer to all of it is “check your privilege!” 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie did this chapter read as pompous as the intro? 2w

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TheBookHippie @GingerAntics no, misguided maybe. I am interested though and I think it‘s something to read that‘ll give insight to differing ways of thought processes. 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie some of it did sound like maybe giving a pass to behaviours that shouldn‘t be given passes, if that sounds right. That could be my own privilege. I just think the right approach isn‘t “hey, it‘s fine to make race jokes and comments as long as they‘re against white people.” I think that‘s just confirming white nationalist fears that black and brown people are going to do the same things the white people have done to them. 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I don‘t think we should cater to white nationalists by any means, and their fears are entirely unfounded by any measure. I just don‘t think continuing to make skin color an insult is the solution. We need to get away from that entirely. It never should have started, but we can choose to do better, and we need to choose better, and choose to eradicate that entirely. That‘s just my take on it. 2w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics the comments should not be said. That‘s it. 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie exactly! I agree it doesn‘t have the same history behind it, but that doesn‘t make it okay or right. 2w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics 🎯 2w

AlaSkaat I made the mistake of reading the second chapter last week so I just got to this one. If it‘s the case of ‘can you or can‘t you‘ it‘s simple. You can. Although racism towards white people is more or less just the present hate and ignorance and not part of a long history of oppression, violence and exclusion, it doesn‘t make it okay 5d

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat well, it‘s never bad to be ahead! Yeah, this one doesn‘t have a simple answer. If it has to be simple, “sorta” might due. lol 5d

AlaSkaat I feel she had the attitude of ‘other people have it worse‘ in this chapter. I absolutely hate that. It minimises the impact of individual experiences. I was called an immigrant and told to go back to my country at just 13 years old. Is it comparable to what black people, especially women, go through? No. But is that to say it wasn‘t impactful and I should be grateful cause it‘s not worse? 4d

AlaSkaat Racism towards black people is a huge issue that shouldn‘t be compared. It‘s a whole different kind of racism than we white people experience. I just didn‘t think the argument was right and comparable here 4d

AlaSkaat People are racist towards me through entitlements mostly, the ‘they‘re stealing our jobs‘ lol, that‘s not the same as hating someone for thinking them so beneath you in human form? Tbf, now I think about it, in this case, you CAN‘T be racist to a white person. But all this really needs a new separate name haha 4d

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat yeah, there is racism, there is xenophobia, there is prejudice, sexism, agism that all play a roll in this. Unfortunately, those often get lumped into “racism,” which is a big enough problem without that. I agree with her point that everyone is an intersection of many different isms. You‘re female. You‘re an immigrant. I‘m a female. I‘m poor. We‘re both outspoken and stand up for what we believe in. (edited) 4d

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat there is definitely space to say that we have been persecuted, we have dealt with prejudice, without minimising either our experience or black and brown people‘s experiences; there is room to say what happened to us is wrong and it has harmed us while simultaneously knowing that other people are treated worse. Neither is right. Neither is okay. We definitely shouldn‘t act like it‘s only the worst evils that we should deal with or think 4d

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat are bad or wrong or whatever. If one person is treated with prejudice, then we are all at risk of it, so all of it must go! I definitely see what you‘re saying about her minimising anything that isn‘t black or brown people as not as bad so it can‘t be racism. 4d

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GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

How is everyone doing after the intro? What are your thoughts going forward?
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 @DrSabrinaMoldenReads @TheBookHippie

TheBookHippie I‘ll get to it!! 🤦🏻‍♀️😵‍💫 3w

kspenmoll I will get to intro etc this week! 3w

AlaSkaat I like the idea of Show your working, especially in thought/opinion.
When she said how disappointing it is people are so focused on being ‘right‘ and oftentimes not even forming their own opinion, just borrowing others for the sake of being right… and then ‘it‘s not my job to educate you‘ when asked to explain… I wonder how many Trump followers blindly follow him and scream his words without really understanding them.. 3w

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AlaSkaat Maybe not not understanding it, but rather never forming their own opinion and following his. Cause anyone in their right mind who has really thought about it (enough to show their work in this sense) would go the other way… 3w

AlaSkaat This reminded me of the tagged book. Good can vary from parson to person. I‘m curious to see how she explains each topic in every chapter. Can you be racist to a white person… there are people of each opinion. Which one is the ‘right‘ one? I hope she goes into detail!

What is Good?: The Search for the Best Way to Live

TheBookHippie She reads pompous know it all but I‘m eager to see how she carries the themes out. I too am of the SHOW your working. I get the call day after CheetoSatan gets elected “ OHNO-what do I do ? What are YOU doing to stop this?” Pisses me off. I‘m doing the same damn thing everyday I always do. Look in the mirror people… own your privilege and use it. 3w

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I loved her idea of showing your work as well. It made so much sense. I had the same thoughts. How many people are just regurgitating ideas without a thought? The next chapter should be interesting. I think “reverse racism” is used often times in ways that aren‘t actually racist. Although, I do think there are situations where people think negative things about white people just because they‘re white, and that IS racism. 3w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie in the audio I don‘t feel like she came off very pompous, but I was also wasn‘t paying attention to that as much when I was listening. I‘ll have to listen for it this week. My new catch phrase is “have the day you voted for.” So many people upset because his BS is actually harming them now. You voted for this. Have the day you voted for, folks! 3w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics exactly -have the day you voted for !!! 3w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie that‘s my new catch phrase! I love it! 2w

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AlaSkaat

Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness | Peter Godfrey-Smith

A little late for the book, but what a cute sticker I found! #DeadPhilosophersSociety

kspenmoll, TheBookHippie, JaclynW, CatLass007, GingerAntics, ravenlee, RavenLovelyReads, ChrissyReads

ravenlee 😆 3w

CatLass007 Do squids have 10 legs? 3w

AlaSkaat @CatLass007 I cannot tell you, lol. I just thought it cute and it fits the book! Unfortunately didn‘t have an Octopus one 3w

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CatLass007 I‘m just being a goof! 3w

kspenmoll 🐙💕 3w

GingerAntics @CatLass007 @AlaSkaat if I remember correctly, the tagged book said something about them having 8 legs and 2 tentacles as the main thing that distinguished them from octopi. 3w

GingerAntics This is beyond adorable! 3w

CatLass007 @GingerAntics Hmmm. Interesting… 3w

GingerAntics @CatLass007 I only remembered that there were two additional appendages (whatever they‘re called) because two of them on the sticker were different. They do something different… I can‘t remember what now. 3w

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GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

Read the into today. Enjoying it so far. Can‘t wait for our discussions.
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety

kspenmoll I have this in a pile-thanks for the reminder! 3w

GingerAntics @kspenmoll I almost missed it. June seriously snuck up on me. I‘m glad I checked my calendar! 3w

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GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

Sorry guys, it‘s been a crazy few weeks. I finally got this done. If this is too early to start, we can push it back some. Let me know.

1 June - Intro
8 June - Can You Be Racist to a White Person?
15 June - Has'Political Correctness' Gone Too Far?
22 June - What's Wrong with Dog Whistles?
29 June - Is It Sexist to Say'Men Are Trash'?
13 July - Do All Lives Matter?
20 July - Who Should We Believe?
👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻

GingerAntics 27 July - Where Does a Mansplainer Get His Water?
3 Aug - Who Is Cancelling Whom?
10 Aug - Are We Responsible for Structural Injustice?
17 Aug - Conclusion #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 2mo

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie this thing is getting rude! 2mo

CatLass007 Thank you for including me in your post group. I look forward to the discussions. 2mo

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TheBookHippie lol!!!! I‘m ready to go put book on hold it was on shelf so I‘m all set! 2mo

Chrissyreadit looks good 2mo

kspenmoll I am ready too! 2mo

DrSabrinaMoldenReads What is this all about? 2mo

GingerAntics @DrSabrinaMoldenReads it‘s the next book we will be reading for the dead philosophers society. You can join us if you‘d like. 2mo

DrSabrinaMoldenReads Thanks!!! That sounds interesting! Please include me. (edited) 2mo

AlaSkaat I‘ve still got to buy this book but it sounds interesting. I‘m slowly getting back into a normal reading routine after the bad few months I‘ve had, so I‘ll try to engage more this time around 🤞 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I hope everything is getting better. Ease yourself back in if you need to. No rush. No pressure. 1mo

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics thank you. I‘ve had a lot of health issues come up in the middle of my grief and the past 3 months have been sooo hard. But it‘s all settling slowly… I‘m definitely making rest a priority now so will definitely have time to read! 1mo

AlaSkaat Thanks for still including me btw, I‘ve been awol for so long haha I came back here after I think a year or more? And you guys were still having these discussions! So awesome 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat oh no, I‘m so sorry. That always seems to make things worse. Rest is always a good time to read. Yeah, we‘re still chugging along. I‘m so glad you‘re getting to come back, though. We‘ve missed you. 1mo

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics thank you! I‘ve missed it here too. It‘s really nice to be back, even if I‘m easing in slowly while I get everything back on track. I just hope the world has given me enough ‘lessons‘ for a while and I can stick to reading about them instead 😅 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat girl, I know that feeling. Fingers crossed on reading instead of living the lessons. Ugh. 4w

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics 🤞🤞 the book came today. I‘ll make a start on it. I saw a lot of mixed reviews about it 🧐 3w

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat fingers crossed, we shall see 3w

Sace I just ordered a copy today. I know I won‘t get to the discussion, but I‘m enjoying the comments and conversation. 6d

GingerAntics @Sace that‘s fine. Just jump in when you get there. 5d

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GingerAntics

The Brain | David Eagleman

pick

This is amazingly philosophical. It addresses the neurology behind in-groups and out-groups. It clearly lays out the ways perception is entirely inside of our brains, and even how by the time we are aware of any given moment, that moment has already passed. Eagleman takes a profoundly complex topic and makes it accessible to the masses to the point that it becomes entirely enjoyable.
#DavidEagleman #TheBrain #ReadByTheAuthor #science #philosophy

GingerAntics This could absolutely be a #DeadPhilosophersSociety read. 2mo

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GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

Do we want to read this book next, or one of our back catalogue? Also, should we go back to having discussion questions, or did you like having a more informal format?
#Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll I would like to read this tagged book. Informal is fine- discussion questions if you have the inclination & time. 2mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll I‘m thinking if I do questions, maybe I would just pick one for the chapter instead of trying to come up with as many as possible. Not looking at everything as a possible discussion question really let me take in the book more. 2mo

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics yes sounds good!! Informal one per chapter is fine by me! 2mo

Chrissyreadit I was able to get it through Libby and intend to read this one with all of you. 2mo

GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit WOOOOOHOOOOOO!!! 2mo

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GingerAntics

Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness | Peter Godfrey-Smith

Tonight on The Americas, we got to see this octopus mate and her babies born. It wasn‘t long, but it was amazing! Highly recommend!!!
#TheAmericas #TomHanks #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007

TheBookHippie Oooooo!!! 2mo

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie the whole series is totally worth a watch! It‘s SO good! The octopus was especially exciting, though. I‘ve been looking forward to it since the series started in the middle of reading Other Minds. 2mo

vlwelser That series is amazing. 2mo

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GingerAntics @vlwelser 💯 2mo

AnnCrystal 💕🐙💝. 2mo

Chrissyreadit ❤️❤️❤️ 2mo

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