ArguingForABetterWorld

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

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Has ‘political correctness‘ gone too far? Is there any such thing as ‘politically correct‘ or is it just human decency?
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TheBookHippie Human decency has left the building. The wheels are off the bus. Decorum gone. Politically - correctness left awhile ago. I do think it should be decency moral ethical …. Honestly politeness got us here and it needs to stop. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I get the sentiment of it all. It‘s just not being practiced. And I don‘t think it ever was. It was all a long game to get here. But yes if you think of decorum there did use to be politeness. Across the aisle work. 1w

kspenmoll I agree with @TheBookHippie such politically correctness can be used as a tool to declare how anti whatever someone is. We went thru training years ago at work & those I would consider racist/sexist in certain ways,did not see not see themselves that way at all.Totally believed in their perception.I remember one student calling out US history teacher for not teaching about any indigenous people unless they were warriors scalping whites, or⬇️ 1w

kspenmoll ⬆️ or women - or black hispanic history except in wars- never got out of the 1950s. He retired a few years ago… Now all that has changed. 1w

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TheBookHippie @kspenmoll YES!!! Great examples! 1w

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie yes to both of you. Yes to all of this. We need to stop trying to be polite and stop giving the benefit of the doubt. Take people at their word, because people are being stunningly honest about their intentions and thoughts right now. They‘re saying the quiet part loud and proud. I hate to say these folks need to have their feelings hurt, but they do. Your feelings are harming others in very physical, real, life and death 7d

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie ways. Getting just their feelings hurt is fine. We need to stop trying to convince people. We need to stop hoping people will “come around.” We need to be direct. We need to be brutally honest. We need to stop accepting intolerance in the name of acceptance and tolerance. 7d

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics EXACTLY. Decorum is currently dead. 7d

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GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

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Can you be racist to a white person?
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Sorry I didn‘t post earlier. I‘m still getting my brain working today.

TheBookHippie I don‘t think so. Privilege at the end of the day. I understand people‘s arguments. I just don‘t think so. White for being just white nothing else. At the end of the day, being white is your privilege. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I agree. Also “Karen” is neither sexist nor racist. I think the answer to all of it is “check your privilege!” 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie did this chapter read as pompous as the intro? 2w

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TheBookHippie @GingerAntics no, misguided maybe. I am interested though and I think it‘s something to read that‘ll give insight to differing ways of thought processes. 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie some of it did sound like maybe giving a pass to behaviours that shouldn‘t be given passes, if that sounds right. That could be my own privilege. I just think the right approach isn‘t “hey, it‘s fine to make race jokes and comments as long as they‘re against white people.” I think that‘s just confirming white nationalist fears that black and brown people are going to do the same things the white people have done to them. 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I don‘t think we should cater to white nationalists by any means, and their fears are entirely unfounded by any measure. I just don‘t think continuing to make skin color an insult is the solution. We need to get away from that entirely. It never should have started, but we can choose to do better, and we need to choose better, and choose to eradicate that entirely. That‘s just my take on it. 2w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics the comments should not be said. That‘s it. 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie exactly! I agree it doesn‘t have the same history behind it, but that doesn‘t make it okay or right. 2w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics 🎯 2w

AlaSkaat I made the mistake of reading the second chapter last week so I just got to this one. If it‘s the case of ‘can you or can‘t you‘ it‘s simple. You can. Although racism towards white people is more or less just the present hate and ignorance and not part of a long history of oppression, violence and exclusion, it doesn‘t make it okay 7d

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat well, it‘s never bad to be ahead! Yeah, this one doesn‘t have a simple answer. If it has to be simple, “sorta” might due. lol 6d

AlaSkaat I feel she had the attitude of ‘other people have it worse‘ in this chapter. I absolutely hate that. It minimises the impact of individual experiences. I was called an immigrant and told to go back to my country at just 13 years old. Is it comparable to what black people, especially women, go through? No. But is that to say it wasn‘t impactful and I should be grateful cause it‘s not worse? 6d

AlaSkaat Racism towards black people is a huge issue that shouldn‘t be compared. It‘s a whole different kind of racism than we white people experience. I just didn‘t think the argument was right and comparable here 6d

AlaSkaat People are racist towards me through entitlements mostly, the ‘they‘re stealing our jobs‘ lol, that‘s not the same as hating someone for thinking them so beneath you in human form? Tbf, now I think about it, in this case, you CAN‘T be racist to a white person. But all this really needs a new separate name haha 6d

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat yeah, there is racism, there is xenophobia, there is prejudice, sexism, agism that all play a roll in this. Unfortunately, those often get lumped into “racism,” which is a big enough problem without that. I agree with her point that everyone is an intersection of many different isms. You‘re female. You‘re an immigrant. I‘m a female. I‘m poor. We‘re both outspoken and stand up for what we believe in. (edited) 6d

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat there is definitely space to say that we have been persecuted, we have dealt with prejudice, without minimising either our experience or black and brown people‘s experiences; there is room to say what happened to us is wrong and it has harmed us while simultaneously knowing that other people are treated worse. Neither is right. Neither is okay. We definitely shouldn‘t act like it‘s only the worst evils that we should deal with or think 6d

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat are bad or wrong or whatever. If one person is treated with prejudice, then we are all at risk of it, so all of it must go! I definitely see what you‘re saying about her minimising anything that isn‘t black or brown people as not as bad so it can‘t be racism. 6d

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GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

How is everyone doing after the intro? What are your thoughts going forward?
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TheBookHippie I‘ll get to it!! 🤦🏻‍♀️😵‍💫 3w

kspenmoll I will get to intro etc this week! 3w

AlaSkaat I like the idea of Show your working, especially in thought/opinion.
When she said how disappointing it is people are so focused on being ‘right‘ and oftentimes not even forming their own opinion, just borrowing others for the sake of being right… and then ‘it‘s not my job to educate you‘ when asked to explain… I wonder how many Trump followers blindly follow him and scream his words without really understanding them.. 3w

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AlaSkaat Maybe not not understanding it, but rather never forming their own opinion and following his. Cause anyone in their right mind who has really thought about it (enough to show their work in this sense) would go the other way… 3w

AlaSkaat This reminded me of the tagged book. Good can vary from parson to person. I‘m curious to see how she explains each topic in every chapter. Can you be racist to a white person… there are people of each opinion. Which one is the ‘right‘ one? I hope she goes into detail!

What is Good?: The Search for the Best Way to Live

TheBookHippie She reads pompous know it all but I‘m eager to see how she carries the themes out. I too am of the SHOW your working. I get the call day after CheetoSatan gets elected “ OHNO-what do I do ? What are YOU doing to stop this?” Pisses me off. I‘m doing the same damn thing everyday I always do. Look in the mirror people… own your privilege and use it. 3w

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I loved her idea of showing your work as well. It made so much sense. I had the same thoughts. How many people are just regurgitating ideas without a thought? The next chapter should be interesting. I think “reverse racism” is used often times in ways that aren‘t actually racist. Although, I do think there are situations where people think negative things about white people just because they‘re white, and that IS racism. 3w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie in the audio I don‘t feel like she came off very pompous, but I was also wasn‘t paying attention to that as much when I was listening. I‘ll have to listen for it this week. My new catch phrase is “have the day you voted for.” So many people upset because his BS is actually harming them now. You voted for this. Have the day you voted for, folks! 3w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics exactly -have the day you voted for !!! 3w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie that‘s my new catch phrase! I love it! 3w

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GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi