Arguing for a Better World

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

I am so sorry. It‘s been a crazy weekend.
Do all lives matter?
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 @DrSabrinaMoldenReads @TheBookHippie

GingerAntics In reality, yes. Socially, no. It‘s why we have to say “Black Lives Matter” in the first place! 4d

TheBookHippie Right?!?!?! the “not all men” makes me vomit. Yes. Men. Most of them. Almost all. So sit down. 4d

Eggbeater All lives aren't currently being treated by society as though they matter. But if you're a rich, white billionaire with a penis, you just hit the jackpot. 4d

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TheBookHippie @Eggbeater 💯💯💯💯💯 4d

Deblovestoread @Eggbeater Got it in one 🎯 4d

Amiable All lives should matter. But they don‘t. Which is why Black Lives Matter! 4d

lil1inblue @Eggbeater 🎯🎯🎯 4d

lil1inblue @TheBookHippie I'm so sick of not all men, too. I just say, "It's all men until it's no men." 4d

TheBookHippie @lil1inblue 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 4d

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie EXACTLY!!! Stop acting like you‘re being attacked and claiming it‘s not you, and tell a man who IS doing this crap to stop. Then we can talk. 4d

GingerAntics @Eggbeater 🎯🎯🎯 spot on! 4d

GingerAntics @lil1inblue 1000% yes 4d

GingerAntics @Amiable EXACTLY!!! If Black Lives Matter or “this guy assaulted me” offends you, then maybe you should ask yourself why instead of acting like you‘re somehow offended. You‘re not offended, you‘re pissed that someone is daring to question your authority as a white person or as a man. 4d

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics yes this. 4d

AnnCrystal All Lives Do Matter! Indigenous Americans highlights “All Children Matter.“

I believe that schools need to begin teaching lessons on empathy, and the necessity of being humane. 4d

GingerAntics @AnnCrystal I totally agree! I would love to see that happen. 4d

GingerAntics @lil1inblue @TheBookHippie Knitting Cult Lady told a story about this time she was in a local community group online, and this woman was asking for help moving because her husband was abusive and she wanted to get her and the kids out… not a single man volunteered. When asked why, every one of them said “he might hurt me.” Bro, you‘re afraid? What do you think she is? Only the women would help her. 4d

GingerAntics @lil1inblue @TheBookHippie these are the same people who say “why didn‘t she just leave if she was so afraid of him?” 🙄 until men start calling out other men‘s behaviour, until men by default believe women when they say they‘ve been abused, until men show up for women, don‘t come at me with “not all men.” 4d

lil1inblue @GingerAntics 🎯 🎯 🎯“Until men start calling out other men's behaviour“ 🙌 4d

lil1inblue I guess along the same lines, it's also Black Lives Matter until all lives matter! 4d

21 likes20 comments

kspenmoll

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

I need this early morning philosophy in this hot,war torn world. #adventuresinphosophy #philosophyforsocialjustice

I am only on p. 40 between underlining,note taking,stickies. 🐢🐢

TheBookHippie, GingerAntics, ravenlee

TheBookHippie 🙃 1w

AnnCrystal 🫂📚💝. 1w

49 likes2 stack adds2 comments

GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

This post contains spoilers

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Is it sexist to say ‘men are trash‘? Maybe it‘s better to ask: Can you be sexist to a man?

#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 @DrSabrinaMoldenReads

TheBookHippie There are no repercussions for being male. Name me a law CURRENTLY that controls men‘s bodies, ability to have a credit card, own property, CHANGE back to your maiden name with out signed permission, etc etc. you cannot be sexist to someone in power. It‘s impossible. White men obviously … but even in other cases the male factor over rides. The government legislates our bodies. So I may be a bit anger biased. 2w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie 1000000% agree! 2w

kspenmoll I cannot say it any better than @TheBookHippie 1w

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Sace

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

#bookmail #BlameItOnLitsy

@GingerAntics

46 likes

kspenmoll

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

New information for me. My book is so marked up!
#adventuresinphilosophy

GingerAntics

IriDas It‘s truly one of the best kept secrets. When you try to tell people this they just won‘t believe you. 2w

GingerAntics This was eye opening. I did not know this existed. I can‘t imagine anyone ever thought it was cool that the descendants of slaves pay taxes toward the reimbursement of their ancestors‘ slave owners. That is just gross. Racism is seriously mind bending. 2w

quietlycuriouskate I knew about the "compensation" but not the scale of it, nor the fact that my family and I were still paying it back until recently. ? 2w

sarahbarnes Ludicrous. Especially considering the pushback against the idea of reparations for Black families impacted by slavery in the US. 2w

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kspenmoll

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

#adventuresinphilosophy

Only 14 pages in, but so much “meat.” Some info I am familiar with but enjoy the historical evidence, research entailed in writing this book. It is always good to review because for me it brings this knowledge to the forefront of my mind & creates pathways to new thinking. Poe‘s tail! 😻😹

GingerAntics

Librarybelle Hi to Poe! 3w

KadaGul Poe is giving his approval of your reading. 3w

AnnCrystal 😍Kittycat tail💕🐈💝. 3w

dabbe Perfect #kittytailbookmark! 🤩🤩🤩 3w

56 likes4 comments

GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

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Has ‘political correctness‘ gone too far? Is there any such thing as ‘politically correct‘ or is it just human decency?
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 @DrSabrinaMoldenReads @TheBookHippie

TheBookHippie Human decency has left the building. The wheels are off the bus. Decorum gone. Politically - correctness left awhile ago. I do think it should be decency moral ethical …. Honestly politeness got us here and it needs to stop. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I get the sentiment of it all. It‘s just not being practiced. And I don‘t think it ever was. It was all a long game to get here. But yes if you think of decorum there did use to be politeness. Across the aisle work. 3w

kspenmoll I agree with @TheBookHippie such politically correctness can be used as a tool to declare how anti whatever someone is. We went thru training years ago at work & those I would consider racist/sexist in certain ways,did not see not see themselves that way at all.Totally believed in their perception.I remember one student calling out US history teacher for not teaching about any indigenous people unless they were warriors scalping whites, or⬇️ 3w

kspenmoll ⬆️ or women - or black hispanic history except in wars- never got out of the 1950s. He retired a few years ago… Now all that has changed. 3w

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TheBookHippie @kspenmoll YES!!! Great examples! 3w

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie yes to both of you. Yes to all of this. We need to stop trying to be polite and stop giving the benefit of the doubt. Take people at their word, because people are being stunningly honest about their intentions and thoughts right now. They‘re saying the quiet part loud and proud. I hate to say these folks need to have their feelings hurt, but they do. Your feelings are harming others in very physical, real, life and death 3w

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie ways. Getting just their feelings hurt is fine. We need to stop trying to convince people. We need to stop hoping people will “come around.” We need to be direct. We need to be brutally honest. We need to stop accepting intolerance in the name of acceptance and tolerance. 3w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics EXACTLY. Decorum is currently dead. 3w

9 likes7 comments

kspenmoll

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

After a tough week,news,work, allergies,Netanyahu,Israel/Iran,LA,45 million? we are paying for little t‘s birthday parade, India‘s plane crash, my son‘s rising anxiety due to all this, I dealt with the myriad of feelings these things evoked in me,by having a moscow mule.That‘s not my usual way to cope.I am hoping my exhaustion, anxiety, etc. will lift after Robert & I join in Hartford‘s Protest at the Capital tomorrow.
#NoKingsRally

Librarybelle ❤️❤️❤️ 3w

AllDebooks ❤️ 3w

Amiable 🥺 3w

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TheBookHippie Sending love & light!!! 3w

willaful Best of luck tomorrow! Action helps! 3w

GingerAntics Good luck. Stay safe! 3w

AnnCrystal ✊🏼🫂🙏🏼💝💝💝. 3w

66 likes7 comments

GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

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Can you be racist to a white person?
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 @DrSabrinaMoldenReads @TheBookHippie
Sorry I didn‘t post earlier. I‘m still getting my brain working today.

TheBookHippie I don‘t think so. Privilege at the end of the day. I understand people‘s arguments. I just don‘t think so. White for being just white nothing else. At the end of the day, being white is your privilege. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 4w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I agree. Also “Karen” is neither sexist nor racist. I think the answer to all of it is “check your privilege!” 4w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie did this chapter read as pompous as the intro? 4w

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TheBookHippie @GingerAntics no, misguided maybe. I am interested though and I think it‘s something to read that‘ll give insight to differing ways of thought processes. 4w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie some of it did sound like maybe giving a pass to behaviours that shouldn‘t be given passes, if that sounds right. That could be my own privilege. I just think the right approach isn‘t “hey, it‘s fine to make race jokes and comments as long as they‘re against white people.” I think that‘s just confirming white nationalist fears that black and brown people are going to do the same things the white people have done to them. 4w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I don‘t think we should cater to white nationalists by any means, and their fears are entirely unfounded by any measure. I just don‘t think continuing to make skin color an insult is the solution. We need to get away from that entirely. It never should have started, but we can choose to do better, and we need to choose better, and choose to eradicate that entirely. That‘s just my take on it. 4w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics the comments should not be said. That‘s it. 4w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie exactly! I agree it doesn‘t have the same history behind it, but that doesn‘t make it okay or right. 4w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics 🎯 4w

AlaSkaat I made the mistake of reading the second chapter last week so I just got to this one. If it‘s the case of ‘can you or can‘t you‘ it‘s simple. You can. Although racism towards white people is more or less just the present hate and ignorance and not part of a long history of oppression, violence and exclusion, it doesn‘t make it okay 3w

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat well, it‘s never bad to be ahead! Yeah, this one doesn‘t have a simple answer. If it has to be simple, “sorta” might due. lol 3w

AlaSkaat I feel she had the attitude of ‘other people have it worse‘ in this chapter. I absolutely hate that. It minimises the impact of individual experiences. I was called an immigrant and told to go back to my country at just 13 years old. Is it comparable to what black people, especially women, go through? No. But is that to say it wasn‘t impactful and I should be grateful cause it‘s not worse? 3w

AlaSkaat Racism towards black people is a huge issue that shouldn‘t be compared. It‘s a whole different kind of racism than we white people experience. I just didn‘t think the argument was right and comparable here 3w

AlaSkaat People are racist towards me through entitlements mostly, the ‘they‘re stealing our jobs‘ lol, that‘s not the same as hating someone for thinking them so beneath you in human form? Tbf, now I think about it, in this case, you CAN‘T be racist to a white person. But all this really needs a new separate name haha 3w

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat yeah, there is racism, there is xenophobia, there is prejudice, sexism, agism that all play a roll in this. Unfortunately, those often get lumped into “racism,” which is a big enough problem without that. I agree with her point that everyone is an intersection of many different isms. You‘re female. You‘re an immigrant. I‘m a female. I‘m poor. We‘re both outspoken and stand up for what we believe in. (edited) 3w

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat there is definitely space to say that we have been persecuted, we have dealt with prejudice, without minimising either our experience or black and brown people‘s experiences; there is room to say what happened to us is wrong and it has harmed us while simultaneously knowing that other people are treated worse. Neither is right. Neither is okay. We definitely shouldn‘t act like it‘s only the worst evils that we should deal with or think 3w

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat are bad or wrong or whatever. If one person is treated with prejudice, then we are all at risk of it, so all of it must go! I definitely see what you‘re saying about her minimising anything that isn‘t black or brown people as not as bad so it can‘t be racism. 3w

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kspenmoll

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

Early morning coffee. Nearby rooster crowing,bird song, cool air, blue skies with powder puff clouds. And of course, coffee and a book.
#coffeesndbooks #adventuresinphilosophy #porchlife

GingerAntics

monalyisha What a perfect morning! 1mo

AnnCrystal Bliss 🤩👍🏼💝💝💝. 1mo

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GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

How is everyone doing after the intro? What are your thoughts going forward?
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 @DrSabrinaMoldenReads @TheBookHippie

TheBookHippie I‘ll get to it!! 🤦🏻‍♀️😵‍💫 1mo

kspenmoll I will get to intro etc this week! 1mo

AlaSkaat I like the idea of Show your working, especially in thought/opinion.
When she said how disappointing it is people are so focused on being ‘right‘ and oftentimes not even forming their own opinion, just borrowing others for the sake of being right… and then ‘it‘s not my job to educate you‘ when asked to explain… I wonder how many Trump followers blindly follow him and scream his words without really understanding them.. 1mo

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AlaSkaat Maybe not not understanding it, but rather never forming their own opinion and following his. Cause anyone in their right mind who has really thought about it (enough to show their work in this sense) would go the other way… 1mo

AlaSkaat This reminded me of the tagged book. Good can vary from parson to person. I‘m curious to see how she explains each topic in every chapter. Can you be racist to a white person… there are people of each opinion. Which one is the ‘right‘ one? I hope she goes into detail!

What is Good?: The Search for the Best Way to Live

1mo

TheBookHippie She reads pompous know it all but I‘m eager to see how she carries the themes out. I too am of the SHOW your working. I get the call day after CheetoSatan gets elected “ OHNO-what do I do ? What are YOU doing to stop this?” Pisses me off. I‘m doing the same damn thing everyday I always do. Look in the mirror people… own your privilege and use it. 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I loved her idea of showing your work as well. It made so much sense. I had the same thoughts. How many people are just regurgitating ideas without a thought? The next chapter should be interesting. I think “reverse racism” is used often times in ways that aren‘t actually racist. Although, I do think there are situations where people think negative things about white people just because they‘re white, and that IS racism. 1mo

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie in the audio I don‘t feel like she came off very pompous, but I was also wasn‘t paying attention to that as much when I was listening. I‘ll have to listen for it this week. My new catch phrase is “have the day you voted for.” So many people upset because his BS is actually harming them now. You voted for this. Have the day you voted for, folks! 1mo

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics exactly -have the day you voted for !!! 1mo

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie that‘s my new catch phrase! I love it! 1mo

24 likes10 comments

GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

Read the into today. Enjoying it so far. Can‘t wait for our discussions.
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety

kspenmoll I have this in a pile-thanks for the reminder! 1mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll I almost missed it. June seriously snuck up on me. I‘m glad I checked my calendar! 1mo

19 likes2 comments

GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

Sorry guys, it‘s been a crazy few weeks. I finally got this done. If this is too early to start, we can push it back some. Let me know.

1 June - Intro
8 June - Can You Be Racist to a White Person?
15 June - Has'Political Correctness' Gone Too Far?
22 June - What's Wrong with Dog Whistles?
29 June - Is It Sexist to Say'Men Are Trash'?
13 July - Do All Lives Matter?
20 July - Who Should We Believe?
👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻

GingerAntics 27 July - Where Does a Mansplainer Get His Water?
3 Aug - Who Is Cancelling Whom?
10 Aug - Are We Responsible for Structural Injustice?
17 Aug - Conclusion #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp @CatLass007 2mo

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie this thing is getting rude! 2mo

CatLass007 Thank you for including me in your post group. I look forward to the discussions. 2mo

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TheBookHippie lol!!!! I‘m ready to go put book on hold it was on shelf so I‘m all set! 2mo

Chrissyreadit looks good 2mo

kspenmoll I am ready too! 2mo

DrSabrinaMoldenReads What is this all about? 2mo

GingerAntics @DrSabrinaMoldenReads it‘s the next book we will be reading for the dead philosophers society. You can join us if you‘d like. 2mo

DrSabrinaMoldenReads Thanks!!! That sounds interesting! Please include me. (edited) 2mo

AlaSkaat I‘ve still got to buy this book but it sounds interesting. I‘m slowly getting back into a normal reading routine after the bad few months I‘ve had, so I‘ll try to engage more this time around 🤞 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I hope everything is getting better. Ease yourself back in if you need to. No rush. No pressure. 1mo

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics thank you. I‘ve had a lot of health issues come up in the middle of my grief and the past 3 months have been sooo hard. But it‘s all settling slowly… I‘m definitely making rest a priority now so will definitely have time to read! 1mo

AlaSkaat Thanks for still including me btw, I‘ve been awol for so long haha I came back here after I think a year or more? And you guys were still having these discussions! So awesome 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat oh no, I‘m so sorry. That always seems to make things worse. Rest is always a good time to read. Yeah, we‘re still chugging along. I‘m so glad you‘re getting to come back, though. We‘ve missed you. 1mo

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics thank you! I‘ve missed it here too. It‘s really nice to be back, even if I‘m easing in slowly while I get everything back on track. I just hope the world has given me enough ‘lessons‘ for a while and I can stick to reading about them instead 😅 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat girl, I know that feeling. Fingers crossed on reading instead of living the lessons. Ugh. 1mo

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics 🤞🤞 the book came today. I‘ll make a start on it. I saw a lot of mixed reviews about it 🧐 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat fingers crossed, we shall see 1mo

Sace I just ordered a copy today. I know I won‘t get to the discussion, but I‘m enjoying the comments and conversation. 3w

GingerAntics @Sace that‘s fine. Just jump in when you get there. 3w

17 likes20 comments

GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

Do we want to read this book next, or one of our back catalogue? Also, should we go back to having discussion questions, or did you like having a more informal format?
#Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll I would like to read this tagged book. Informal is fine- discussion questions if you have the inclination & time. 3mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll I‘m thinking if I do questions, maybe I would just pick one for the chapter instead of trying to come up with as many as possible. Not looking at everything as a possible discussion question really let me take in the book more. 3mo

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics yes sounds good!! Informal one per chapter is fine by me! 3mo

Chrissyreadit I was able to get it through Libby and intend to read this one with all of you. 3mo

GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit WOOOOOHOOOOOO!!! 3mo

20 likes5 comments

GingerAntics

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

This came up on Apple Books as a recommendation. This could be perfect for us. Thoughts?
#ArianneShahvisi #ArguingForABetterWorld #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll Sounds interesting & relevant. I vote yes. 3mo

TheBookHippie Yes 3mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll my thoughts exactly! 3mo

20 likes3 comments

RaeLovesToRead

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

so-so

If you're looking for a book to get more people on board with current social justice discourse, this is not the one.

There's certainly lots of food for thought and I agree with most of what's being said, but there isn't enough empathy with opposing views to truly build a bridge.

Ironically, I found Shahvisi a lot more convincing in later chapters when she loses some of the certainty and allows more nuance into her arguments.

Also, cake!

yourfavouritemixtape Oh god, that cake 🤤 5mo

RaeLovesToRead @yourfavouritemixtape Buttercream!!!!! 🥰🥰 5mo

68 likes2 comments

RaeLovesToRead

Arguing for a Better World: How to talk about the issues that divide us | Arianne Shahvisi

Keep dreaming of a better world 💙

Jess I‘m not going to lie, it is quite tough today to see any hope. Maybe tomorrow? Thanks for the encouragement though. 8mo

RaeLovesToRead @jess 🫂🫂🫂🫂 8mo

82 likes2 comments

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