teleportation

The Stars My Destination | Alfred Bester

pick

To me this read sort of like an SF take on The Count of Monte Cristo, and while that structure can be compelling, I'm just not super into revenge stories. What I found most interesting about reading this one was noticing the ways it influenced later SF—I recognize some of its DNA in the worldbuilding of the early Expanse novels, for example. In the end, I did enjoy this book but it is very much a product of its time, with everything that implies.

9 likes

sakeriver

The Stars My Destination | Alfred Bester

6 likes

MarshmallowAdventures

Impulse | Steven Gould

bailed

In an attempt to cull some of my overflowing book collection I decided to allow myself the (to me) unthinkable act of bailing on a book for any reason whatsoever, and this one just could not grab me despite making it through a quarter of the book. The concept was incredibly interesting but the pacing was strange to me, being somehow too fast and too slow. Maybe in another lifetime!

2 likes

CSeydel

The Stars My Destination | Alfred Bester

pick

This was a fascinating tale of a low-class, unremarkable man who becomes inflamed by a desire for revenge that drives him to unspeakable acts yet also somehow elevates him to a higher plane of thinking. As people, the characters were absurd, but the novel works when you understand the characters as stand-ins for various social and economic forces. Bester makes a daring case against the view that we are safest when power lies with a chosen few. ⤵️

Ruthiella, RamsFan1963

CSeydel #ClassicLSFBC 13mo

CSeydel I wasn‘t always entirely sure what the author was getting at until the final act, when he is quite clear about certain things. For having been written in 1958 I thought it was remarkably provocative about the role the wealthy play in society and how they have the freedom to, for instance, play one side against the other in war, comfortable in the knowledge that they will come out fine regardless of the outcome. 13mo

CSeydel I found this quote particularly poignant:
I believe, he thought. I have faith.
He jaunted again and failed again.
Faith in what? he asked himself, adrift in limbo.
Faith in faith, he answered himself. It isn‘t necessary to have something to believe in. It‘s only necessary to believe that somewhere there‘s something worthy of faith. 13mo

Ruthiella Nice review and great insights. It is a book one has to read with a certain perspective, you are right. And the discussion and reviews we‘ve had on Litsy have all greatly added to my understanding of it. 👍 13mo

CSeydel @Ruthiella absolutely, the discussion has been most interesting. Thanks for hosting! 13mo

42 likes5 comments

KathyWheeler

The Stars My Destination | Alfred Bester

pick

Gully Foyle is probably one of the most despicable characters I‘ve ever encountered. His desire for revenge at any expense is just extreme. He sort of has a redemptive arc, but it‘s not really redemption he gets — just change. It‘s disappointing that no sci-fi author of that time can ever seem to imagine a world where women are equal; there are characters here who had potential to be great but were limited by gender; #audiowalk #ClassicLSFBC👇

KathyWheeler 👉 I don‘t think Bester is making any kind of social commentary about gender roles either although the book is full of commentary about class and oligarchy. 13mo

Ruthiella Agree that the limited scope of women in classic sci fi (and fantasy too) is so common. 13mo

KathyWheeler @Ruthiella It truly is. These writers had so much imagination regarding everything else, but it was beyond them to imagine how women‘s roles could change. 13mo

26 likes3 comments

KathyWheeler

The Stars My Destination | Alfred Bester

I‘m listening to this for #ClassicLSFBC, and I have to say that so far, I really like it. It grabbed me from the beginning. Our main character, Gully Foyle, is not a nice guy. Today is the first day since Monday that I was actually up to walking. It was so nice. #audiowalk

24 likes

Roary47

The Stars My Destination | Alfred Bester

so-so

3✨ I can see why this is a great classic SciFi. Foyle is the strong and resilient main character powered by revenge. He was stuck with little, isolated and in a very possible position of dying. When his rescue ship passes him by after several attempts to get their attention he is pissed. Then he goes on a man hunt that leads him into more than he expected. I can get where Foyle was coming from, but he was a jerk to basically everyone.

18 likes

Roary47

The Stars My Destination | Alfred Bester

Trying to multitask and it‘s not really working. My kiddos F and S helped me make fresh pumpkin puree 🥰💛

Ruthiella Looks great! 👍 13mo

AnnR Wow. Awesome! 13mo

dabbe 🤩🤩🤩 13mo

23 likes3 comments

Ruthiella

The Stars My Destination | Alfred Bester

QUESTION 3: “Jaunting” is probably the most truly “science-fictional” aspect of the story. Do you think it could ever really be possible?

#ClassicLSFBC

KathyWheeler, Lizpixie, julesG, Deblovestoread, majkia, LeticiaToraci, kwmg40, CatLass007, CSeydel, RamsFan1963, ravenlee, TheSpineView, Bookwomble, Roary47, PageShifter

RamsFan1963 I liked the idea of "jaunting" by mental energy alone, but a mechanical method would have been more realistic, like Star Trek's transporters. 13mo

Ruthiella @RamsFan1963 Agreed. He did use it to quickly get characters from one location to another. But he also used it at the end maybe to also show Foyle‘s innate talents - his ability to jaunt further than any human had previously. 13mo

Bookwomble Psionics is the SF equivalent of fantasy magic, so, no I don't think jaunting is ever likely to become a reality. It's a fun story element, though. Again with the metaphors (!), Foyle's latent power = the potential of the oppressed to overthrow the oppressor if they can harness their inherent strength. The more I reflect, the more strongly I'm developing a specific view of what the underlying narrative is, & it's deeper than it initially seemed. 13mo

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Roary47 Honestly, I was tired of hearing the term over and over. It‘s an interesting concept and way to get characters around. However, I was thinking about how my mind just goes places without warning. As in I‘m driving in my car and think about a situation at work. Poof now I‘m at work and my car is driving itself. 😅 Or I‘m in the shower and I think about my friends house party. Poof… yikes. I hope it‘s never in my future 🤣 (edited) 13mo

Ruthiella @Roary47 😂 One does wonder how they actually managed “jaunting” traffic. 13mo

Lizpixie With the current state of the human brain, no. Maybe centuries from now when science tinkers with our dna & brain mapping enough, possibly🤔? But I think it‘ll be machines that make it possible instead. Like @RamsFan1963 said, #BeamMeUpScottie 13mo

RamsFan1963 @Lizpixie @Bookwomble @Ruthiella @Roary47 If jaunting were possible, could it create a utopia? Borders and nationalities would be meaningless. You could live anywhere you wanted, then jaunt to your job. Would you still be considered an American citizen if you lived in the South of France or Monaco, but worked in the US? It would be nice if it lead to a brotherhood of man, but more likely you'd get the corporate takeover scenario played out here. 13mo

julesG @RamsFan1963 Now that is an interesting thought. I wish globalisation was more about growing together as humans rather than exploiting resources "there" to make a profit "here". 13mo

Roary47 @julesG I agree with you on that front. Since I live so close to the boarder of Mexico. I worked with people (and still do) who live in Mexico, but work here. So they bring that revenue across the boarder. Many of our citizens and winter visitors also have doctors across the line causing us to not have quality care because doctors do not have work, or prices to inflate. 13mo

CSeydel I‘m always fascinated by quantum entanglement. While I can‘t imagine how something like jaunting could ever really happen - seems like we would have discovered it by now, if it were an innate human ability? - I know there is a tremendous amount we don‘t know about long distance forces and properties of matter. (edited) 13mo

Ruthiella @CSeydel You know, I raised my eyebrows at jaunting but had no problem accepting the quantum leap time travel of the burning man because the concept is so familiar to me from tv and movies. 🤔 13mo

RamsFan1963 @Ruthiella I think I've watched enough episodes of Doctor Who that the idea of a character meeting a future or past version of themselves didn't make me bat an eye. 13mo

kwmg40 Jaunting didn't seem very realistic to me, but then again, this is science-fiction and I'm quite willing to suspend my disbelief. 13mo

Ruthiella @kwmg40 I accepted jaunting as a given in the story, but it didn‘t seem realistic to me either. 😅 13mo

37 likes14 comments

Ruthiella

The Stars My Destination | Alfred Bester

QUESTION 2: The story has a redemptive arc. Did it work for you? Is Gully more or less victimized than victimizer?

#ClassicLSFBC

KathyWheeler, Lizpixie, julesG, Deblovestoread, majkia, LeticiaToraci, kwmg40, CatLass007, CSeydel, RamsFan1963, ravenlee, TheSpineView, Bookwomble, Roary47, PageShifter

Bookwomble I was sceptical of Bester being able to redeem Foyle, and ultimately I don't think it is a redemptive arc. It struck me as more about actualisation, of an unreflective stimulus/response 'drone' gaining self-awareness, agency, and self-determination. At no point did I like Foyle, and he didn't seem to regret any of the terrible things he'd done, but then he's an archetype or metaphor rather than a person we're supposed to sympathise with. 13mo

Bookwomble As a metaphor for a process by which an oppressed majority might finally become aware of its oppression by a powerful exploitative elite, and develop from brutal mob reaction to an organised idealistic liberationist collective, I thought it was good. 13mo

Ruthiella Maybe transitional arc would be a better term. I do think that Gully felt remorse for how he abused Robin and abandoned Jizbella (what a name!). But it was never enough for him to stop his quest for revenge. I like your metaphor, but is then the ultimate message not rather bleak? Gully tries to preach to the masses at the end, but they won‘t listen? 13mo

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Bookwomble @Ruthiella It is bleak and realistic, as people do seem to continue to support the systems and figureheads of those systems that exploit them. There's a scintilla of hope in the novel - maybe this time enough people will choose freedom and throw off their shackles! It's basically about becoming "woke", and the vehemence of the current establishment backlash against "woke" tells you how dangerous they see it to their position of privilege. 13mo

Roary47 I agree with @Bookwomble I never liked Foyle. I can understand his need for revenge considering what he had to go through for months. I can also understand that his lack of society standing would make him socially awkward in not being able to have compassion. From a teacher view I see him as a higher functioning autistic person, and it provides for me some small redemption properties, but this was written before this so… yeah not a fan. 😅 13mo

Ruthiella @Roary47 I see him more as a victim, used by the powerful as a tool to be discarded to serve their interests, only he upended the plans with his monomania of revenge. I also never liked him, though I occasionally felt sorry for him. 13mo

Lizpixie I think he was victimised but he chose to continue on the path he did. Wasn‘t much of a redemption in the end really🤷🏻‍♀️ 13mo

Ruthiella @Lizpixie Yes. I do think redemption was the wrong word. He isn‘t redeemed, but he is transformed. The ending struck me as quite cynical. 13mo

CSeydel I agree with others who said it didn‘t feel like a redemptive arc, quite. Like a lot of SF from that era, the story is less concerned with characterization than with plot and ideas. Foyle works as a metaphor for the underclass, but I didn‘t really think he made sense as a realistic character. He had no skills, no education, no ambitions, but he‘s miraculously able to acquire whatever skills he needs to advance the story. 13mo

Ruthiella @CSeydel Yes. The “hypno-learning” enabled him to learn huge amounts in such a short time was a plot device, for sure. Good point about the preeminence of ideas over characterization. I found this to be true of the Asimov books I‘ve read in the past too. 13mo

kwmg40 Gully seems equally victim and victimizer. That made it hard to relate to him as a character, though at times I felt that I ought to. I definitely agree with the comments that the ideas take precedence over characterization in this story. 13mo

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