The Rose and the Yew Tree

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

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I‘m a little behind on the monthly #LMWBR #MaryWestmacott #BuddyRead books, but at least managed to finish this month‘s read…a couple weeks late!

What I like about Agatha Christie‘s non-mystery titles are the slow buildup of action and almost a psychological analysis of characters and situations. They‘re cunning, smart, and a pure delight! In this one, I liked viewing things from Hugh‘s POV. It was a good read. #192025 #1947

CSeydel

kspenmoll In the Lucy Worsley‘ Agatha Christie biography there is a chapter(30) on her Westmacott books which makes me want to read them all! 14mo

Librarybelle @kspenmoll Awesome! It‘s been fun to see a different side of Christie! 14mo

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BarbaraJean

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

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I‘m finding the Mary Westmacott novels so fascinating to read! This one is such a rich character study, focusing on two unique and puzzling personalities and how they interact, against the backdrop of an election in the English village of St. Loo. I‘m still not sure how I feel about some of the directions the plot takes, or about the ending of the novel, but still—fascinating & worth the read! #LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead #192025 - 1947

Librarybelle, CSeydel

Ruthiella I listened to the BBC A Good Read podcast discussion about this title and they suggested that there‘s an unpunished crime hinted at the end? I don‘t see it? Do you! 14mo

Librarybelle I‘m almost done with this one, and I completely agree! 14mo

BarbaraJean @Ruthiella Oh, interesting!! I don't see it, either! I'll have to go back and examine it more closely. 14mo

Ruthiella OK. I have thought way too much about this. BUT, what if Hugh had paid that student to kill John Gabriel…and he only found out years later that he inadvertently killed Isabella? 🤔 That‘s why he says in the second to last paragraph, “so that was the end…” 14mo

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CSeydel

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

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What does this mean? Do you think Teresa is right about Isabella “knowing her own design” for life, as opposed to the design Hugh wants to fit her into?

CSeydel @ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads 1y

Ruthiella I do think Teresa is right here. She followed her passion instead of taking the expected course. 1y

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CSeydel

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

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#LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

I have to honest here, I didn‘t fully understand the attraction between Isabella and Gabriel. I understood why Gabriel wanted to possess her, but I couldn‘t fathom what Isabella was feeling.

CSeydel @ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads #westmakittens 1y

Ruthiella Was she drawn to his energy and drive? She was very passive. I think her sacrifice is what jolted Gabriel and made him devote his energies towards trying to make a difference for good in the world with no thought of remuneration or recognition. We saw that in his final action with Millie Burt and how he did the right thing, even if it cost him his ambitions. 1y

willaful It's a fascinating relationship. At first I read it as similar to a Jane Austen runaway couple, just based on physical attraction, but obviously there was a lot more there.

I think Gabriel had a basic goodness that had been corrupted by his class hatred and ambition. The fact that Isabella, the “princess,“ would sacrifice herself for him perhaps made him value his own potential more. He couldn't bring her to his level; he had to reach for hers. 1y

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BarbaraJean I found the ending very unsatisfying, because I don't think Gabriel's transformation was believable. I feel like I need to hear more about the intervening years in order to decide how I feel about how or if he really changed! The Isabella/Gabriel attraction didn't make sense to me, and neither did their relationship--other than that they stayed together because they were each so puzzled by the other and by their attraction! 14mo

Ruthiella @BarbaraJean I feel that maybe a life of self sacrifice, but surrounded by adoring acolytes like Catherine Yougoubian, probably appealed to Gabriel‘s ego. So he didn‘t change so much as his ambitions changed. 14mo

CSeydel @BarbaraJean I totally agree! Very curious about Gabriel‘s later years. @Ruthiella that is an excellent point. 14mo

CSeydel @willaful I think you‘re totally right about that! I wonder if Isabella‘s love helped him let go of that defensiveness and that accounts for his transformation, allowing him to be more gracious and generous in later life. 14mo

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CSeydel

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

#LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

CSeydel @ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads 1y

Ruthiella I do believe in evil. Not in a religious sense, but as part of the human spectrum. But I don‘t agree with Teresa fully (though she is absolutely my favorite character). I think she is perhaps referencing the banality of evil and how most humans (myself included) are quite complacent. 1y

BarbaraJean @Ruthiella I don't agree with Teresa here, either. This sounds like “well, everyone means well...“ and I very much disagree with that! I agree that a lot of harm is caused by the weak--people not getting involved, or indeed having good intent but bad outcomes. But there are so many who act with ill intent. Motives are certainly mixed, and Gabriel is a prime example of that, but harm is certainly often caused by those who very much mean to do so. 14mo

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CSeydel

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

#LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

“It is a world of calculation of effect, of persuasion, of a thousand small subtleties, coupled with that large amount of sheer, uninteresting drudgery that is, again, the female quota to existence.”

CSeydel @ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads #westmakittens 1y

Ruthiella I know very little about politics. I avoid them whenever possible. So I can‘t say if this observation is accurate or even what Christie meant by it. 1y

willaful Shoot, I missed that we were reading this. I'll try to catch up and answer soon. 1y

BarbaraJean The political subplot was fascinating--so many parallels to current politics. I kind of see what Christie was getting at by saying the political world of St. Loo was “essentially female“--but I don't know if I agree. The “drudgery“ part of it (I'm assuming canvassing, behind the scenes work, etc.) makes sense, for the time, to characterize as female, but there was so much calculation and persuasion being done, on all sides, regardless of gender. 14mo

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CSeydel

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

Hugh, Teresa and Robert have a lengthy conversation about Isabella, comparing her with Fortinbras from Hamlet. What did you think of Isabella? Do you think she would be perceived as strange today, or was she merely strange for the context in which she lived?

#LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

CSeydel @ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads #westmakittens 1y

Ruthiella First I had to look up Fortinbras! 😂 I think she‘s a realistic character. Plenty of people are exceptionally smart in one area or another but not so much in another. I do think, were she a man, her intellectual capability might‘ve been more encouraged by her family. She‘s unusual in that she doesn‘t care what others think-that‘s still pretty uncommon, IMO. (edited) 1y

willaful I got a sense that she might be neurodiverse in some way, though hard to put a finger or a diagnosis on it. Her directness and tendency towards the literal are indicitive.

I think she fit in well with her world, because of her ease with acceptance and would probably continue to fit in well. 1y

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BarbaraJean @willaful - Yes, she would definitely make sense as neurodiverse! She was such a unique character and I could never quite figure her out, or figure out how I felt about her. I don't think she was unrealistic, but she was very very specific. Hugh's characterization of her as a “lazy thinker“ made so much sense, but it also didn't quite fit--she wasn't lazy per se, just uninterested in examining her emotions and reactions. She was fascinating to me. 14mo

willaful @BarbaraJean “Very specific“ -- an excellent way to put it. And kind of unusual for Christie, who tended towards types. I guess she got to play around more with character in her Westmacott books. 14mo

BarbaraJean @willaful I think you're right, that she plays with character more in these books. What has stood out to me with every one of the Westmacott novels is how richly the characters are drawn. Which feels like a feature of her fiction across the board, but it's much more complex in these books. 14mo

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CSeydel

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

#LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

Most of the book takes place during the election season at St Lol, but Hugh‘s character is set up with a backstory about his romance with Jennifer, which ended after a car accident leaves him disabled. What did you think that added?

rubyslippersreads, quietjenn, kspenmoll, KathyWheeler, BarbaraJean, Librarybelle, batsy, Ruthiella, Roary47, peanutnine, willaful

Ruthiella I think Jennifer was there to better enable Hugh to understand Milly Burt and her situation and John Gabriel‘s desire to ameliorate it. I don‘t think all humans fit into limited psychological patterns-each person is complex. But I have met plenty of people who seem to be wedded to their suffering. 1y

rubyslippersreads I‘m behind again, but will catch up soon. 1y

willaful it's an opportunity to show how out of touch Hugh can be with his own feelings, and his tendency to romanticize 1y

BarbaraJean I agree with both @Ruthiella and @willaful - the romance with Jennifer deepens Hugh's understanding of other people, and it also deepens the reader's understanding of Hugh's blind spots. Hugh's backstory made him more than just a handy invalid who can be a sounding board/sort-of impartial observer--and it gives us context for the person who's our filter throughout the events of the novel. 14mo

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BarbaraJean

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

“…isn‘t that what politics really boil down to in the end? What people will believe, what they will stand, what they can be induced to think? Never plain fact.”

Yikes. Feels like this has never been more true.
#LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

CSeydel

Balibee146 Yikes indeed.... We have gone the same way in the UK at the moment 💔 1y

Ruthiella I think this was true back in Roman times. Each generation has to recognize it anew. But canny politicians know it and wield it accordingly. 1y

CSeydel Yes! I tagged this quote also. Extremely insightful. 1y

CSeydel I also love examples like this because every generation, people think politics are somehow worse than ever, people are worse than ever, divisions are worse than ever, people are voting based on all the wrong reasons, etc. And yet so much of this is constant, just human nature wrapped up in different trappings 1y

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Ruthiella

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

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A twisted psychological novel. Told from the perspective of an outsider to the actual drama. The narrator, Hugh Norreys is confined to a wheelchair and because he is unable to move independently, people tend to come and bare their souls to him. So does he encounter the upper class, strange , and strangely beautiful 19 year old Isabella Charteris and the lower class ambitious politician and attractively ugly John Gabriel in Cornwall. #LMWBR

CSeydel

Ruthiella I listened to the BBC A Good Read podcast on this book again and was struck by the proposal that there‘s an unpunished crime hinted at at the end? I don‘t see it? What am I missing? 🤔 1y

Leftcoastzen Cool old cover 1y

Ruthiella It is! Not the cover I read, but I picked it for my review for its cool factor! 😂 1y

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batsy This sounds so intriguing! 1y

Jess_Read_This Nice review and I‘m very intrigued! The main character confined in a wheelchair and having to listen to everyone reminds me a bit of the Monica Dickens book. Or maybe even the Rear Window movie?

The Happy Prisoner

Ruthiella @Jess_Read_This I‘ve not read the Monica Dickens, but I will put it on the list. Rear Window isn‘t actually a bad comparison. Hugh does get involved in the lives of others as an occupation and way to keep himself stimulated, not unlike the Jimmy Stewart character. The stories are very different, but that motivation of someone physically but not mentally immobilized is a point in common. (edited) 1y

Ruthiella @batsy It is. It‘s my second favorite so far. 1y

LeahBergen Ooo, stacked! 1y

Ruthiella I hope you like it! 1y

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CSeydel

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

Hey #westmakittens

Just wanted to let you know I haven‘t forgotten about this month‘s discussion—today has been busy, but I‘ll post the questions later tonight or tomorrow. If you‘ve finished the book please do post your own reviews and tag the group! I am eager to hear what everyone thought of this one.

#MaryWestmacottBuddyRead #LMWBR

BarbaraJean I just started reading yesterday, but will jump in as soon as I can! I also realized I never got back to last month‘s discussion when I finished the book 🤦🏻‍♀️ I‘ll be catching up with both this week! 1y

CSeydel Anytime! The posts stay up! Maybe I should hide them behind spoiler tags though - I hadn‘t thought of that 1y

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CSeydel

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Mary Westmacott

Hey everyone, sorry haven‘t been active the last week or so. I was traveling, and then we had the Thanksgiving holiday here so I have fallen behind on reviews as well as discussion posts. Hope everyone enjoyed Absent in the Spring as much as I did! Just a reminder that our #LMWBR book for December will be The Rose and the Yew Tree. Start looking for a copy! I‘ll plan the discussion for Dec 16. #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

Ruthiella I‘ve already started reading it! 😂 1y

CSeydel @Ruthiella Nice! 1y

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Martta

The Rose and the Yew Tree | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

so-so

This didn't work as an audio book. It had the feeling of the writer wanting to unload her emotional frustration through her characters. It was like listening the emotional aftermath of some other struggle but not knowing the real reason for them.

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Martta

The Rose and the Yew Tree | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

Started listening to this 😁🎧

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truthinfiction

The Rose and the Yew Tree | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

"It has had the inevitable disillusionments and disappointments, the secret childish agonies; it has had also the excitements, the harmonies, the intense satisfactions arising from oddly inadequate causes. I can choose from which angle I will view my life – from the angle of frustration, or as a triumphant chronicle. Both are true. It is, in the end, always a question of selection."

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quietjenn

The Rose and the Yew Tree | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

Seeing what Dame Agatha is like when she turns her hand to not-mystery.

LeahBergen I‘ve always wanted to try one of her books written under this pen name. 6y

erzascarletbookgasm I‘ve never tried her books under this pen name either. 6y

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quietjenn

The Rose and the Yew Tree | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

Thank you so much for my #achristieswapisannounced package, @Emilymdxn - and to @Sophoclessweetheart for organizing. I 💙 that my items came from iconic British museum and bookstores! Looking forward to reading my books!

Emilymdxn So glad you liked it!! I had some edible goodies that the FDA wasn‘t too keen on unfortunately but I found good replacements luckily 😅 6y

mabell Oooo I love the Treasures of Ancient Egypt from the British Museum! How cool! 6y

LeahBergen Lovely! I‘ve been meaning to try one of Christie‘s novels written under her Westmacott pen name. 6y

Sophoclessweetheart I LOVE THIS! The British Museum cards are perfect! 6y

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Martta

The Rose and the Yew Tree | Agatha Christie

I saw a documentary about Agatha Christie a few months ago and ever since I've been wanting to read some of her books written as Mary Westmacott. I saw this and it sounded different from the detective stories I've read from her earlier. I just had to buy it.

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