Litsy

The Burden | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

pick

I‘m finally catching up my last few reviews from February. This was the last book I read for the #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead, and while it was worthwhile, I think it was the weakest of the bunch. The Westmacott novels have all been so rich in their character development and examination of human nature, but here, the plot she chose to explore these particular characters didn‘t seem to serve her purposes well. (Cont‘d) ⬇️

CSeydel

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) Her themes were a bit muddled—and the conclusion even more so. Her insight into human nature was masterful as always, but the plot elements just didn‘t work together coherently for me. This landed as a low “pick” for me. Thank you to @CSeydel and the #westmakittens for this fantastic buddy read! I thoroughly enjoyed reading the Westmacott novels along with the #LMWBR group. 7mo

Ruthiella My least favorite would be Unfinished Portrait, but this one would be a close second. 7mo

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BarbaraJean

A Daughter's a Daughter | Mary Westmacott

pick

Another belated review from January!

I have been blown away by the depth of psychological insight in each of the Mary Westmacott novels. This was excellent as well, but also at times excruciating to read—mainly because of that depth of insight. Christie gives such a clear view of each character, and the motivations behind their actions, while simultaneously showing their inability or refusal to see others with the clarity needed. ⬇️

BarbaraJean For me, this book echoed some the avoidance and lack of self-awareness we see with Joan in Absent in the Spring, but with much higher relational consequences here. The ending felt rushed, but still—yet another high pick for another Westmacott novel!
#LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead @CSeydel
And, this was my 1952 pick for #192025. @librarybelle (edited) 8mo

Librarybelle This one may be my favorite of the ones we read, though there are a couple that I didn‘t get to read yet. It was so good! 8mo

BarbaraJean @Librarybelle I think Absent in the Spring might be my favorite of the Westmacott novels—but honestly, they‘ve all been so good. The Burden I think was the weakest. 8mo

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Librarybelle

The Burden | Agatha Christie

pick

Can love be a burden? Westmacott/Christie writes a psychological study of family and how far one can go to protect a loved one. There are parts, especially at the end, that did not quite seem to fit with the rest of the narrative. However, it‘s Christie, and so therefore there‘s an in-depth study of human nature. Not as strong as others of her Westmacott books, but still a pick.

Thanks for hosting #LMWBR , @CSeydel !

#192025 #1956

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Karisimo

Just Curious | Jude Deveraux

Hey Littens! I'm writing a paper about reading challenges/goals. So I'm curious, how many challenges/ book clubs do you participate in on a monthly basis? Such as bookspin, natural litsy, booked in time, Litsy Scifi Book Club, etc... Or what is the most unique challenge you've ever done? Tell me all about it!

willaful One of the most interesting challenges I ever did was called “Making it Real“ and it was a monthly nonfiction challenge. A random Dewey category (400s, 700s, etc.) was picked every month and everyone chose a book catalogued with that number. It got me to read much more widely. 8mo

Ruthiella Two challenges, I‘m not that serious about them: #52BookClub24 and #pop24 and two TBR busters #TBRTarot and #Roll100 . At least seven group reads, though two just finished and another is bi-monthly: #LMWBR #FurrowedMiddlebrowClub #ClassicLSFBC #LitsySFBC #LitsyToB24 #NancyDrewBR and #pemberlittens #hashtagbrigade . I like how each makes me read more widely. 8mo

Susanita Three book clubs plus #authoramonth plus #serieslove2024 plus #readordonate … Too much??? 8mo

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thebacklistbook I try to stick to challenges that are more freeform in nature. I track them on storygraph. I usually do them with the goal of clearing some tbr. I'm doing read around the world and OWLS which are both finish at your own pace and then I have three that are finish at year end. I don't do book clubs as I find them a little to structured. 8mo

Karisimo @Ruthiella and @willaful thanks for including. “Why” you do the challenges! (edited) 8mo

Karisimo Thanks @thebacklistbook ! 8mo

Karisimo @Susanita definitely not too much 😉 8mo

Karkar I do not usually do them anymore. I found that for me it became too much like homework instead of enjoying the reading time. 8mo

Karisimo @karkar you‘re not alone! A lot of people feel the same! 8mo

StayCurious I find they motivate me and help me out of the dreaded reading slump! 8mo

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CSeydel

The Burden | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

#westmakittens #LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

@ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads

CSeydel Here we go again with the “interfering always backfires.” I think she‘s right, but I also think it can be taken too far. 8mo

CSeydel I‘m also interested in what you all thought of the discussion between Llewellyn and Wilding about human nature. Wilding says, “To believe the best of someone is to call the best into being. People respond to one‘s belief in them.” Llewellyn disagrees: “To keep up being what someone expect you to be is to live under a great strain. Too great a strain leads eventually to collapse.” Which do you believe? Can they both be right? (edited) 8mo

Ruthiella Sure, they can both be right. I think everyone needs both, but in different doses and o 100% of one or the other would be harmful. The rehashing of previous themes wearied me a bit in this one, but maybe because we‘ve read them all back to back now. 8mo

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BarbaraJean I appreciate what Christie was trying to do here, but I don't think it was executed well. Her insight into human nature is masterful, but the plot elements just didn't work together coherently for me. I agree with the “interfering always backfires,“ to a point, but wasn't the opposite the problem in A Daughter's a Daughter? I don't think it's a universal rule, and I think Christie knows it. She had a hard time communicating that complexity here. 8mo

BarbaraJean @CSeydel @Ruthiella Yes, I do think Llewellyn and Wilding can both be right about this. It depends a whole lot on who the person is who's being “believed in.“ Some people will rise to the best that is believed of them, others will collapse under the expectations, and still others will resent and therefore want to go against those expectations. I agree about the repetition of themes--but it's also clear this was the first of these novels she wrote! 8mo

quietjenn I agree with what others have said - both can be true to an extent and the balance is the key here, as it is with so many things. Very often, interfering gets you nowhere, but Not Interfering is sometimes easier said than done. I wouldn't say that this book resonated with me particularly. It's probably one of my least favorites and I'm glad it was short. 😅 And I really liked Baldock. 8mo

CSeydel @BarbaraJean @quietjenn @ruthiella Great observations! 8mo

Librarybelle Yes, I think both can be right about their human nature observations. And, I agree that this one seems to be the weakest of her non-mystery novels. I‘ve not read all of them as of yet - I plan to read those I missed this year! - but this one seemed not as polished, if that makes sense. @BarbaraJean is right that Christie had a hard time communicating the complexity of interference. @CSeydel @Ruthiella @quietjenn 8mo

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CSeydel

The Burden | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

#westmakittens #LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

@ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads

CSeydel Llewellyn and his visions were so strange to me. I‘m still ruminating on what he represents. I thought the religious overtones of Shirley “paying the price” for Laura‘s sin was discomfiting, but perhaps that was the intention. 8mo

CSeydel In this one she weaves in a religious dimension, using the story of Job to drive home the point that God has God‘s plan and we are really not capable of understanding God‘s priorities and purposes, only human ones. I think her point here is that when we “try to help” we inevitably fail because we only see from our perspective, not that of the recipient of the help. What do you think? 8mo

Ruthiella I think it was in interesting decision to include such a mystical character. I don‘t agree with his interpretation of Laura‘s actions or their results, personally. The story of Job makes me think more of Greek gods, toying with humans for their own amusement. 8mo

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BarbaraJean Other than providing a deus ex machina for Laura at the end of the book, and giving us an outside perspective of Shirley and Richard, I didn't think Llewellyn added much to the novel. I felt that last third of the book would have been better from Shirley or even Richard's perspective. I was troubled by the implications of the religious aspect: both Shirley “paying the price“ for Laura's sin, or our helplessness to understand higher purposes. 8mo

BarbaraJean I think the idea that help/interference is misguided, because we cannot understand another's perspective, isn't well-supported by the narrative. Mainly because I don't think the problem was Laura “helping,“ it was Henry being an ass, and with Richard, it was Shirley not understanding herself or what she needed. Maybe the problem was the plot Christie chose to explore these ideas! Overall, I thought the message was muddled. 8mo

quietjenn It was ... odd? I honestly found the book, overall, a bit disjointed and I definitely was not expecting a televangelist who has had visions of Laura his entire life swooping in to show her what love is! 8mo

CSeydel @BarbaraJean I was thinking of Laura killing Henry as her trying to help Shirley be happy, but it backfired. The premise seemed to me to be that Shirley would have been better off continuing to be unhappy caring for Henry rather than the soft, comfortable life she had with Wilding. It was definitely a hard message to accept. 8mo

CSeydel @quietjenn Definitely threw me for a loop as well. Not sure if it was just a device to allow a 3rd-party, objective view of Shirley‘s later life, but the visions went over my head - I didn‘t understand why that was necessary 8mo

CSeydel @BarbaraJean I agree, the religious angle in this one didn‘t sit well with me either 8mo

Librarybelle I was a bit confused as to Llewellyn‘s purpose. It seems to come out of nowhere, unless you consider Laura‘s prayers at the beginning of the novel. I‘m puzzled why Christie chose a religious discussion - it‘s a little out of character for her novels, at least to me. @CSeydel @Ruthiella @BarbaraJean @quietjenn 8mo

Ruthiella @Librarybelle It seemed out of character to me too. In her mystery novels, the few times spiritualism or the mystical comes up, it is always debunked. 8mo

Librarybelle @Ruthiella Yes! She gives many pages to the religious discussion in this one rather than her mysteries, except maybe Hallowe‘en Party (though I‘ve not read that one yet. I‘ve only seen the new Poirot movie very loosely based on it). 8mo

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CSeydel

The Burden | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

#westmakittens #LMWBR

Our final selection for the #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead ! Who‘s up for discussion? What did you think? I‘ll put my question under a spoiler tag in case anyone hasn‘t read it yet.

@ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads

CSeydel Laura longs to be loved throughout the book, and it‘s only at the end that she feels “the burden” settle on her shoulders - the burden of someone else‘s love. Do you think that‘s a fair description of love? How do you think the burden of Laura‘s love ultimately harmed Shirley? 8mo

CSeydel This was not as painful as A Daughter‘s a Daughter, but I still found it a fairly bleak representation of family relationships. 8mo

Ruthiella I think the burden goes both ways: the burden of loving and the responsibility of that care and of being loved and the expectations that come with that. I agree it‘s not as bleak as A Daughter‘s a Daughter, but it comes close. However, I think that many, many humans would see love as a privilege and an honor. I wonder how things would have turned out differently if Laura hadn‘t been saddled with a parental role at such a young age. (edited) 8mo

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BarbaraJean I'm not sure if I agree with this description of love--I think it's problematic as a description of healthy love! I do think it's a fair description when it's an unequal relationship. And honestly, I don't think the novel does a good job of bearing out the “burden of love“ as a thesis. Shirley supposedly bears the burden of Laura's love, but she doesn't seem stifled by it. She does seem stifled under the burden of Richard's love, but ⬇ 8mo

BarbaraJean (Cont'd) I think that burden is due to her own choices & lack of self-knowledge, not Laura's actions. Shirley didn't understand herself well enough to know what she needed when she turned to Richard. Shirley wasn't old enough/experienced enough to gauge Henry's character—I don't think that situation would have turned out any differently regardless of how Laura handled it. And I don't think Shirley would have been better off if Henry had lived! 8mo

willaful Sorry, I couldn't find a copy and participate. :-( 8mo

quietjenn Love is complicated and I do think that, even in the best of relationships, there are times when it can feel burdensome - especially in those moments that it feels unequal, as others have pointed out. But I think that's only a small part of it, and I think to define it just by that quality is an unfortunate and limited view of things. 8mo

Librarybelle This was definitely a bleak representation of family relationships, @CSeydel ! Love as a burden seems to be a pretty strong statement by Christie, but Laura‘s idea of love is a bit shady given what she went through at a young age. @BarbaraJean @quietjenn @Ruthiella 8mo

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Ruthiella

The Burden | Agatha Christie

pick

#MaryWestmacottBuddyRead #LMWBR

A soft pick, it rehashes some of the themes from the other novels and I found its dual narrative structure a little weird. Still, an interesting psychological portrait of sorts.

Shirley has always felt the weight of her older sister‘s love for her until Shirley falls for a faithless lover and marries him. Llewellyn gives up a powerful career, based on faith in his visions. Eventually their stories converge.

CSeydel

CSeydel Oh my gosh, I totally spaced on this one! It‘s already the third Saturday! 9mo

Ruthiella Thanks to @CSeydel for making this buddy read happen! 😃 I might never have dusted off this bind-up of the Westmacott novels that I‘ve had for 20 years now. 9mo

quietjenn @CSeydel I pretty much forgot as well. Oops! 9mo

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BarbaraJean @CSeydel @quietjenn I‘m glad it‘s not just me!! I don‘t know how it‘s the third Saturday already! (edited) 9mo

Ruthiella @CSeydel @quietjenn @BarbaraJean Well then, I‘m glad I reviewed it (because sometimes I don‘t). Consider it a public service announcement. 😆 9mo

CSeydel Yes, thank you @Ruthiella for keeping us on track! @quietjenn @BarbaraJean it sounds like it wouldn‘t be the end of the world if I post discussion questions next Saturday instead 😆 9mo

BarbaraJean @CSeydel Since I haven't started reading it yet--posting questions next Saturday would definitely not be the end of the world 😁 @Ruthiella Thank you for the PSA!! 9mo

quietjenn @CSeydel @BarbaraJean more than ok 😅 Way to keep us honest @Ruthiella 🙂 9mo

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CSeydel

The Burden | writing as Mary Westmacott, Agatha Christie

Happy February, #westmakittens! This month we read the sixth and final Mary Westmacott novel. I haven‘t read this one yet and I‘m looking forward to discussing it with you all. I‘ve really enjoyed reading everyone‘s reviews and the good discussions! Thank you for going on this journey with me.
#MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

CSeydel
@Ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads #LMWBR 9mo

Librarybelle Got my copy ready to go! 9mo

CSeydel @Librarybelle Awesome! 9mo

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CSeydel @Ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads #LMWBR 9mo

Ruthiella The last one! 9mo

CSeydel I don‘t know what‘s going on with my tag list 🤔 At first it didn‘t work. Now it looks like it showed up twice? Smh 9mo

CSeydel @Ruthiella Woohoo! 9mo

willaful I don't think I have this one. :-( 9mo

rubyslippersreads Looking forward to this. I‘ve enjoyed them all so much, I‘m going to go back and read any I‘ve missed. 9mo

BarbaraJean Thank you for organizing and leading this! I have enjoyed all of these so much. Looking forward to this final read and discussion! 9mo

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CSeydel

A Daughter's a Daughter | Mary Westmacott

Happy Saturday #westmakittens! Sorry I‘ve dragged my feet on the discussion for this book. I have to share that I find this one incredibly painful for various reasons. I quite relate to Ann and her preference for self-sacrifice over conflict. Re-reading this book now that I‘m older, it strikes me how many of my worst regrets can be traced back to this tendency.

What about you? What did you see in these characters?
#LMWBR #MaryWestmacottBuddyRead

CSeydel @Ruthiella @KathyWheeler @quietjenn @Librarybelle @kspenmoll @BarbaraJean @peanutnine @Roary47 @willaful @batsy @rubyslippersreads 9mo

CSeydel I fiercely hated Sarah and her selfish, bratty behavior. But this time around, reading it as a mother of adult children, I felt more of the blame lay with Richard for forcing a confrontation rather than being patient, and with Ann for not working on Sarah in private to communicate her feelings and try to lessen to conflict or at least get to the real source of it. 9mo

Librarybelle I felt so bad for Ann, sacrificing so much. Sarah and Richard were terrible. They put Ann in a terrible position, and as someone who also tries to keep everyone happy, I can relate to the strain Ann felt as she tried to “referee.” 9mo

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rubyslippersreads @CSeydel Sarah was a brat, but Richard was the adult in the situation and could have behaved better. And Ann was an adult too, and could have communicated better, as you pointed out. An interesting book, but not a comfortable one. 9mo

willaful @CSeydel It was definitely different for me too, reading as the mother of an adult child now. A&R could have done a lot more to defuse the situation.

Personally, I think it was very wrong of Ann to make a sacrifice that she couldn't do without bitterness and anger. It wasn't a reasoned choice, but a desperate one and she really did it more for herself than Sarah, and then took it out on her. For years. (Not that Sarah wasn't cruel & awful.) 9mo

quietjenn If like to think that I couldn't really relate to any of them 😅, although that might be denying my worst tendencies. I think they all handled the situation terribly and deserved some blame. 9mo

Ruthiella Dame Laura! The reader can intuit where the plot is going but is powerless to prevent anything. 9mo

willaful @Ruthiella Yes, Dame Laura is a good audience stand-in. She sees it all but no one listens to her. 9mo

CSeydel @willaful she‘s dead-set against giving advice as well 9mo

BarbaraJean @Ruthiella @willaful Yes, I definitely related to Dame Laura as well. She could see all sides, and the inevitability of how it would play out. @CSeydel What did you think of her determination to NOT give advice? I could see why that was her approach, but it also frustrated me that she was so completely hands-off. I wondered how things would have gone with Ann if Laura hadn‘t been away for so long, and/or if she‘d have offered some direction. 9mo

BarbaraJean I unfortunately related to Ann a lot as well. The avoidance of conflict is strong for me!! But there was more going on there than just avoiding conflict. The lack of self-knowledge/failure to understand each other was universal! Sarah was awful, but her selfishness & lack of consideration for others stemmed from immaturity & inexperience. Neither adult seemed able to see her behavior for what it was. Richard‘s behavior was just as bad as Sarah‘s⤵️ 9mo

BarbaraJean I felt he was more culpable, as an adult who should have considered both the source of Sarah‘s behavior as well as how his own actions were exacerbating the situation. Then Ann needed to take responsibility for the choice she made—recognizing her bitterness and resentment and dealing with it rather than burying herself in the constant social whirl. Which is another kind of avoidance, I guess! 9mo

CSeydel @BarbaraJean Yes, I found myself getting very frustrated with Dame Laura! Even Ann was getting frustrated with her refusal to get involved! I agreed with her general principle about not giving advice - people don‘t want to hear it, even if they think they do - but I wish she had been a little less cryptic with Ann and Sarah when she was sharing her thoughts. Or a lot less. 9mo

CSeydel @BarbaraJean And yes, this time around, I felt much more annoyed with Richard for his lack of patience and perspicacity. 9mo

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