The Fruit of the Tree

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While very much a book of its time (1907) many of the issues raised in it are still relevant. Euthanasia, ccupational health & safety, labour relations, conditions & opportunities for the working poor & duties of captains if industry to society as well as their shareholders all feature. The personal story has aged less well, I think, although some of the observations of relations between the sexes resonated.
#WhartonBuddyRead
@Graywacke @Lcsmcat

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Graywacke

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

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It‘s not just how many different unexpected turns this novel‘s focus takes, but how thought provoking each is. A look a labor, and the flawed selfish leisure class who have the divine power of ownership, and the role of women in this class and it‘s impossible contradictions. And idealism vs reality. And relationships…oh how she captures their flaws and strains and that bewildering unintended failure to communicate. Enjoyed this. #whartonbuddyread

Graywacke my LT review: https://www.librarything.com/topic/337810 (hashtag, no spaces) 7799631 2y

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Graywacke

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

The Fruit of the Tree : Book IV part XXXVI - XLVIII (end of the book) #whartonbuddyread

Ansel advises Amherst, “Do you know what you have to do…? Exactly what she decides.” Justine takes charge, however we may think of her choices, and whatever sense of original sin we may apply to their happily ever after. A lot in this novel. Thoughts? Favorite themes? Did it all work? Why/why not?

Lcsmcat

Graywacke @jewright @Louise @Sace @Suet624 @arubabookwoman @Currey @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @crazeedi @mdm139 @emilyhaldi @rubyslippersreads @KathyWheeler @llwheeler @CarolynM @Cathythoughts @BookishTrish 2y

Lcsmcat I thought of the characters‘ fatal flaw as being idealism, and Wharton shows how conventional thought does not allow that to go unpunished. Like Aristophanes‘ The Frogs, the crowd was there to pull you down to their level. Quote below (edited) 2y

Lcsmcat But life is not a matter of abstract principles, but a succession of pitiful compromises with fate, of concessions to old tradition, old beliefs, old charities and frailties. That was what her act had taught her— 2y

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Lcsmcat that was the word of the gods to the mortal who had laid a hand on their bolts. And she had humbled herself to accept the lesson, seeing human relations at last as a tangled and deep-rooted growth, a dark forest through which the idealist cannot cut his straight path without hearing at each stroke the cry of the severed branch: “Why woundest thou me? ” 2y

Lcsmcat Assuming the titular Tree to be the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil from Eden, I think Justine and John can have happiness, but it is now a happiness tempered by humility. 2y

arubabookwoman @Lcsmcat I'm afraid they are not going to have happiness. I felt at the end that John was beginning to idealize/mythologize Bessy, and Justine was beginning to hide things from John again. Overall I felt saddened at the end. John certainly does not come across well in this book, despite his good intentions. (edited) 2y

Currey @arubabookwoman I agree with you. I think Justine is now not as idealistic but also learning to fake her past idealism for John. John and Justine had a relationship based on truth but it is no longer. 2y

Currey @Lcsmcat @Graywacke I found the book to be very ambitious but, for me, the ending was not satisfying. I felt as if Wharton fell back to explaining rather than allowing the story to stand on its own. This wasn‘t extreme but nevertheless not a good conclusion. The actual plot conclusion was good though, as I think it was realistic that Justine and John would not find their “garden” but be expelled by the truth. 2y

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman @Currey I agree that John does not come across well - rather the opposite. A lot of the problems are set up by his actions. (And his beliefs about women that attracted him to B in the first place.) And that‘s where I disagree that J & J had a relationship based on truth. They both lied to themselves and each other while Bessy was alive. While they connected on a mental plane, that doesn‘t mean their relationship was based on truth. 2y

Currey @Lcsmcat Good point that just because Wharton tells us it is based on the truth doesn‘t mean it ever was….yes, they lied to themselves. John was a pretty miserable communicator. I did think it was very amusing and somewhat twilight zone frightening that John thought the swimming pool and gym was for the workers. 2y

Lcsmcat @Currey That was some twisted thinking on John‘s part! 2y

TEArificbooks Maybe if Wharton left out the last chapter it would have been better. End on a high note with J & J getting back together and spare us the lies at the end. History definitely was repeating itself in this book many times. 2y

TEArificbooks The reunion scene reminded me of old black and white movies where the man grabs her arms and she tilts her head up to him and he declares his stupidity and love and she cries and says oh John and they kiss. 2y

Graywacke Enjoying the conversation and great apt quote ( @Lcsmcat ) which makes me hesitate to put it all on a now openly dishonest partnership. Life is not a matter of abstract principles. @arubabookwoman I found the promise of their happiness ambiguous. @Currey is she really faking her idealism? (Does that explain/relate to J‘s paternalistic aspects?) @mdm139 But then she‘d have to change the title. 🙂 2y

Currey @Graywacke. I think Justine retains her idealism regarding what can be done for the workers but I think she is starting to fake her idealism around a perfect relationship of like minds with John. I think she has come to realize what price she paid and that from here on out their relationship will be a more “normal” one of compromise, miscommunication but making it work. 2y

Currey @Graywacke @Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman @mdm139 - did anyone else have the twisted stomach reaction to the sentence about Justine having to give a morphine injection when John finally came to find her….I thought that was rather brilliant of Wharton to remind us that way and also cause me to think that Justine could “do it again”, but maybe it was just me 2y

jewright @Currey I thought this too. Their second kiss was different, and I wondered if that was because John was thinking about how morphine split them up the first time. 2y

Graywacke @Currey @jewright i was too caught up in how awkward the whole meeting was. Justine worn and hiding in the city and not very enthused to be found, plus the gossipers yapping away. Amherst seeming as confused as me. It was a lot for me to take in. 🙂 2y

arubabookwoman @Currey The morphine shot jumped out at me too. I'm sure it was deliberate on Wharton's part. I was wondering about the legalities at the time Wharton was writing this of assisted suicide/euthanasia. Justine didn't seem particularly concerned about criminality or facing homicide charges, just what the world would think about her hastening the death of the 1st wife of the man she then married. 2y

arubabookwoman I thought the ending was perfect actually, even though a bit ambiguous as @Graywacke says. Until John announces the plans for the worker's center were done by Bessy, I was kind of expecting a "happy ending" (which would have been unusual for Wharton based on what I've read of hers). Then Wharton hits us with the irony of John failing to perceive that Bessy's character had never really changed. That said, I wonder?????? 2y

arubabookwoman ...why she made out her will to leave everything to John (which was why he thought she had changed in the first place). 2y

Lcsmcat @Currey I had the same reaction to the morphine shot! 2y

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman I thought Bessy‘s will a little odd, but maybe a dig at the other men who tried to control her. It seemed like she wanted to rebel against being controlled but just didn‘t quite have the energy to follow through. That said, I think John was just blind to pretty much anything that didn‘t fit in with his plans (such as his mother‘s feelings about living the way she had to before he married Bessy.) 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman @Lcsmcat The will is maybe iffy in terms of character consistency, or maybe it needs more thought. Bessy herself is a commentary on leisure class women - she was not mean or evil, but childish, needy, dependent, contradictory, (and impulsive). Somewhere in that context is probably her decision with the will. She may have just felt guilty. (edited) 2y

llwheeler I'm loving reading everyone's comments, and it's making me appreciate the ending more. I haven't had a lot to say about this one, and I don't think it will be one of my favourites, but I am glad I've read it. 2y

CarolynM I thought I'd have lots of reading time while I was away all last week, but as it turned out I barely had any free time at all. I'm looking forward to finishing the book and catching up with everyone's comments in the next few days 🙂 2y

Graywacke @llwheeler I feel like we made a lot great conversations around this book. Thanks for being a part of it. Hoping you like Ethan Frome better. (Hoping I like it more than i did in high school!) 2y

Graywacke @CarolynM no worries. Enjoy it when you have time for it. 2y

Graywacke To answer my own questions - my favorite theme was the marital miscommunication because it felt real to me. I‘m not sure this book truly “works” in the sense that it goes a lot of different places and I certainly didn‘t see the end trajectory half way through. I was sad Bessy died partially because I wanted to J & B work out or fail, and we sort of didn‘t get either. But i liked the ending and the check on idealism with reality. 2y

jewright This has been my favorite Wharton book so far. I disliked all the characters, but I was interested in what happened to them. I did feel the book kind of switched protagonists. John is there the whole time, but the story is more focused on the women. It was an interesting way to tell a story. 2y

jewright @Graywacke I really like Ethan Frome, and we read it in one of my classes last year, and my students liked it too. 2y

llwheeler @Graywacke I've actually read Ethan Frome already, and I loved it. I'm really looking forward to the discussion of it when we get there, especially in light of this book now. 2y

DivineDiana Although I have not read the book, I so enjoyed the photos and discussion. Well done! 2y

Graywacke @DivineDiana thank you! This led to a series of great conversations. I wasn‘t aware of what a good book club book this makes. 2y

CarolynM @Graywacke @Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman @jewright @Currey I finally found time to finish the book and read all the comments 🙂 I really enjoyed all your discussion and I think all the main points have been covered. It's an interesting story and covers a lot of ground. I found some of the emotional content a bit overwrought but there were some good insights about romantic couples and how they perceive one another's motives.👇 2y

CarolynM 👆 I felt so sorry for Cicely. In all Justine's agonising, she didn't seem to consider Cicely at all, and yet she was the one who suffered most from Justine's absence. As Mrs Ansell (who turned out to be better hearted than I was expecting) said, she was twice motherless. Thanks everyone for another great buddy read. I'm looking forward to Ethan Frome. 2y

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Lcsmcat

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

Reading this morning got me to the last chapter and I don‘t want to stop reading to go to work! #whartonbuddyread @Graywacke

Graywacke I finished today too. I like the ambiguities. 2y

Lcsmcat @gratwacke I can‘t wait for 5:00 so I can read that last chapter! 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat 🙂 I took a personal day today. Family is on spring break and there is that big orange ball bouncing around string-draped metal circles. 2y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Enjoy! (I must confess that it took me a full 10 minutes to catch the 🏀 reference. Such a bad Tarheel!) 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat 😊sorry. (Glad there are some Tarheels who give the tournament a pass) 2y

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llwheeler

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

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Finished for #whartonbuddyread

I'm still giving this one a pick, but I think it's my least favourite Wharton so far. I never seemed to really invest in the characters or the plot... Not sure how much of that is my mindset and being busier/distracted right now though. And I still enjoy her writing.

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Graywacke

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

The Fruit of the Tree : Book III part XXVIII to Book IV part XXXV #whartonbuddyread

Euthanasia. Well, we should take a moment to appreciate that Wharton gave us 8 months of happiness. But, back on theme, did your sense change after Wyatt told his full version? Have these ethics aged? Also, any thoughts on Justine‘s name - personification of Justice hovering, or being subjected to itself?

Lcsmcat

Currey @Graywacke So when I first read the fateful scene, I perceived it as Justine giving a morphine injection before schedule. It wasn‘t until Wyant‘s playback that I realized it was a larger than normal dose also. So that is where my brain‘s “line” evidently is. Mercy to give Her what she wanted early and murder to give her an out and out fateful dose. 2y

Currey @Graywacke one would think this book would have aged well given where we are with assisted suicide but somehow it doesn‘t. Knot in my stomach all the way. 2y

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Lcsmcat @Currey I had the same thought. But I‘m not sure still that she did otherwise. Wyant is not a reliable witness, after all. 2y

Lcsmcat I like the idea of Justine being an intentional name choice, pointing to Justice. She does start out that way with Dillon, after all. But I was disappointed in her not sending Wyant away. He wouldn‘t be believed if she had behaved differently. 2y

Currey @Lcsmcat Exactly, Justine did not need to act “guilty”….W. clearly has a drug problem and everyone would have believed her not him but somehow we are in this terrible situation. I rather think it is justice for her rather than her being the hand of justice but it is a nice play on her name. (edited) 2y

TEArificbooks I think Justine‘s decision may have been different if they had some of our modern technology and medicine. Bessy didn‘t even get a X-ray. No one knew really what was going to happen but Justine knew that her friend was suffering pure agony and “keeping her alive” was torturing her. I also think Dr. G just didn‘t want to be the one to make the decision so was waiting for Bessy‘s men and Dr. W was looking for glory. 2y

TEArificbooks So Justine did what she thought was the merciful thing the men wouldn‘t do. When Dr. W didn‘t get his glory and fame for healing Bessy he reacted poorly. Became an addict, married someone else, and blamed it all Justine and blackmailed her. I like the John supported Justine in front of Dr. W but I am wondering if he will privately. 2y

TEArificbooks Also wondering if there was a second motive for Justine to kill Bessy. Right now it is presented as mercy which is consistent with her character traits. However, she then marries John. Justine knew there was marital strife. Was Justine also trying to save John from making the decision? Or was it more calculating - Justine was already in love with John, didn‘t think Bessy deserved him, so she saw her chance to eliminate the competition? 2y

Lcsmcat @mdm139 while that crossed my mind too, I don‘t think Justine killed Bessy for that reason. I think it was mercy, but a type of mercy that wasn‘t widely accepted. She had the same thoughts about Dillon and whether it was kinder to keep him alive but unable to work, or to let him die. X-rays would have been nice, but I don‘t think they‘d have changed the prognosis. I think the paralysis affecting her lungs is what was killing her. Slow suffication. 2y

TEArificbooks @Lcsmcat I think it was mercy too, but if it became well known what Justine did then society would look at it as Justine killed off the first wife to marry John. I am still wondering how John will react privately. Will he hate Justine and divorce her or live separately. Or will he be grateful. 2y

Lcsmcat @mdm139 How he treats her in private is the big question, isn‘t it? And how will this affect Cecily? 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @mdm139 i didn‘t mean to stop us at such a cliffhanger. I‘m really curious from the sense that Amherst is a terrible communicator (that was a lame marriage proposal). Will he be able to express how he feels? 2y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke “lame marriage proposal” indeed! 2y

Graywacke @Currey @Lcsmcat @mdm139 I never felt any guilt for J (and so didn‘t understand her fear of Wyatt). I don‘t know that we know what Justine did, but it‘s really a matter of scale. J clearly put B out of her misery, and seemingly at B‘s request. What was awkward to me is that Justine, always so confident, was so unable to manage how to relay this to John. That implies she has serious guilt, which implies she has some doubts 2y

Graywacke (PS - Enjoying the discussion so far) 2y

TEArificbooks @Graywacke I am wondering since John is such a bad communicator will John and Justine be able to overcome his poor communication skills. Obviously Bessy and John both had poor communication skills and couldn‘t overcome it. I suspect John will be unable to communicate to Justine how he feels about what she did, but I am hoping she is smart enough to know what he trying to say. 2y

CarolynM I'm behind. I'll comment when I catch up. 2y

Lcsmcat @mdm139 I wonder that too. They are supposedly so mentally in tune, but she kept this secret so it doesn‘t bode well. 2y

llwheeler I caught up this week! I agree with everyone else, wondering how this will play out given the track record of John's terrible communication (and Justine keeps saying how perfectly they understand each other but I'm not really sure how strong of a basis she has for thinking that...) 2y

Graywacke @CarolynM look forward to your comments and take on this. 2y

Graywacke @llwheeler glad you‘ve caught up! 2y

jewright I think Bessy was asking Justine to kill her. Justine seemed like she was trying to keep her alive to see John, but the line in the book seemed to give her permission to release Bessy. I hate how Wyatt is treating Bessy like a science experiment. 2y

arubabookwoman Family things got away from me this week. Will rejoin next week hopefully. 2y

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Graywacke

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

The Fruit of the Tree - Book III part XXI - XXVII
#whartonbuddyread

Marital problems, impulsive bad decisions, and consequential accidents - a section of heavy allegory. And in the midst is Justine trying to figure out - well, what exactly? Justine has at least 5 intense encounters - with Wyant, Amherst, Ansel, Bessy and Reverend Lynde. We still have a lot of book. Thoughts?

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @jewright @Louise @Sace @Suet624 @arubabookwoman @Currey @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @crazeedi @mdm139 @emilyhaldi @rubyslippersreads @KathyWheeler @llwheeler @CarolynM @Cathythoughts @BookishTrish 2y

Lcsmcat And @CarolynM is proved right. 😀 2y

Lcsmcat This section picked up for me (last week dragged a bit) and Justine always seems to be close to making a definitive decision about the direction of her life when someone or something happens to pull her back. 2y

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Currey @Lcsmcat Yes @CarolynM was right. Good prophesizing skills!! 2y

Currey @Graywacke Justine realizes she comes alive in Amherst‘s presence and also in Wyant‘s when he is consumed with working and even when she has to take charge in Bessy‘s house, but it just serves to tickle us into thinking that her desire to find the right person and get married is not all that drives her. 2y

Currey And @carolynM are we now looking at Justine helping Bessy to end? 2y

Currey @graywacke Very struck this week by not only Wharton working out her familiar themes in slightly different ways with slightly more fully drawn characters but also how she is learning to better manipulate us, the readers. Or at least this one reader. 2y

TEArificbooks I was glad Bessy‘s and John‘s friends finally started to work together to keep them together instead of pulling them apart. And John finally made his move to explain his feelings to Bessy. But then Bessy once again failed to listen and decided to do the immature thing by running away to Cadbury‘s house, then spend a ton of money, then ride the horse in the winter. John shouldn‘t have left the country without telling Bessy. 2y

Louise @Graywacke I haven‘t managed to catch up with my reading. Still going through a stressful time—having to move by June, etc. I would like to stay in the group list to stay in touch so I can get back into the book discussions when life settles down a bit. Thanks. 2y

Graywacke @Currey is that a good manipulation or bad one? 2y

Graywacke @Currey @Lcsmcat @mdm139 I was struck by how uncertain Justine is of what she is doing. If she‘s looking for a husband, it makes sense. But, it seems she has no clear plan there. If she‘s trying to save Bessy, well, is she? Otherwise it feels like a step sideways- from hopeless emergency physical care to hopeless emergency psychological care. Not sure i‘m not making sense or just not on a 1907 mindset. Just seems to be an odd element to me. 2y

Graywacke Also I feel Justine has become the main character. 2y

Graywacke And what do Justine‘s parents think about what she‘s doing? 2y

Lcsmcat @Louise I‘m sorry you‘re under stress right now. Moving sucks! Let me know if you need anything - even just an ear to vent into. 2y

Currey @Graywacke Yes, on Justine becoming the main character and largely positive on the manipulation front. I am engaged. I do feel that in comparison to Cather, Wharton is directing me. Cather gave me (time, place, characters) and then left me to see how I thought or felt about those things. Wharton seems to be further over on the side of telling me how she wants me to feel. I am probably not making much sense. 2y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I agree Justine has become a main character. And the most interesting one to me. I think (like John) her father is dead but her mother living. Or am I remembering wrong? 2y

Lcsmcat @Currey No, I totally get what you‘re saying! Wharton seems to be more engaged in pursuing a theme (and taking the reader along with her) than in exploring scenes. (If I‘M making sense. 😀) 2y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke And to answer your actual question about Justine, she had the same education as Bessy. I think she‘s trying to find a way forward in a world she wasn‘t educated for. (edited) 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @Currey - not sure I‘m making sense either (😁) but I see Wharton as insistent, needing to convince. (Like Justine?) Cather assuming you are probably not going to change and see it her way (like, hmm, Alexandra?) 2y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Well put! Perhaps a result of their very different upbringings and positions in society? 2y

Louise @Lcsmcat Thank you for your kind words at this difficult time. Much appreciated. 💗 2y

arubabookwoman Sorry to be so late today--family things.I don't have much to add. The riding accident Wharton so heavily foreshadowed has finally happened. I kind of see Justine as the stand in (spokesperson?) for Wharton's own POV. So far she's been the reasonable one making reasonable decisions. I'm wondering if now Wharton is going to change her focus from the plight of factory workers to the issue of euthanasia. This is certainly a novel of serious issues. (edited) 2y

CarolynM @Lcsmcat @Currey I'd have predicted an accident that killed her outright, I'm glad Wharton has taken us in a more interesting direction. I hadn't thought of mercy killing, but it seems likely that Justine will at least think about it. The last chapter made me think about the advances of the last century, not only in treating spinal injuries, but also in quality of life for survivors, & also how much farther we have to go with accessibility etc👇 2y

CarolynM I have to agree that Cather leaves more room in her stories for the reader to decide rights and wrongs, but I feel there are many issues on which both authors would agree. "Most marriages are a patch-work of jarring tastes and ill-assorted ambitions" seems to me an observation supported by many of the marriages found in Cather's novels too. 2y

CarolynM @Louise Hope your move works out and things improve for you soon so you can join us again. I always enjoy your input into the discussions. 2y

Louise Thank you so much, @CarolynM. 💗 2y

Graywacke @CarolynM - on Cather and Wharton and that line about marriage: that really does seem like a line either author could write. 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman @CarolynM euthanasia. Hmm. 2y

Graywacke @Currey @Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman @CarolynM @mdm139 - this comment is maybe wrong as Bessy lies immobile and in great pain - but, I‘m disappointed in her. (edited) 2y

Graywacke @Louise wish you well 2y

arubabookwoman @Graywacke I was certainly disappointed in her when Amherst returned to talk with her, at Justine's urging, he found that she had left for Blanche's, despite knowing he was on his way. 2y

Louise @Graywacke Thank you, Dan. 2y

jewright I was expecting a riding accident that killed her. It is a pity that she will suffer greatly, but her death is sure to happen anyway. I‘m so annoyed with both of John and Bessy. I liked both of them in the beginning, and now I hate them both! They are both selfish and petty, and they have no idea how to compromise to make their marriage work. I‘m kind of impressed how Wharton has made me both like and hate them in such a short space. 2y

jewright I‘m wondering if Justine and/or John will adopt Cicely since she will be an orphan? They both seem to like her more than her mother. I did hate the comment Bessy had about being glad her baby had died, so nothing would tie her to John. I am sure that the trauma of the baby‘s death has made everything worse. 2y

Graywacke @jewright “I‘m kind of impressed how Wharton has made me both like and hate them in such a short space.” - now that you mention it, yeah, me too. 2y

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Graywacke

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

The Fruit of the Tree: Book II part XIV to Book III part XX - #whartonbuddyread

“How the little parched soul, in solitary confinement for life, must pine and dwindle in its blind cranny of self-love!”

We‘re halfway through and perhaps the book has slowed down for everyone. In the midst of this marital struggle of Bessy and John are a whole ideas and psychological explorations. The societal pressure! Can‘t you, sadly, relate?

Midway thoughts?

Lcsmcat

Graywacke My main thought: The ways Bessy and John fail to find a way to communicate struck me. They are not being idiots, there‘s no ill will. They are really trying and yet they end up full of unintended, unwanted bitterness. It‘s frustrating, and yet insightful…painfully too true to life. 2y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke It was a painful section to read! How two people can want reconciliation equally (albeit for different reasons) and be unable to communicate it. And I see Wharton‘s despising this social class more meanly than in previous books. She doesn‘t seem to want to cut them any slack. Whereas in Mirth it felt more like she understood but disagreed with them, here it feels like she‘s portraying them as evil. 2y

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arubabookwoman @Graywacke @Lcsmcat Agree with both these comments. The scene between Bessy and John when he returns from the factory is heart-breaking. Two people who love each other (apparently), but entirely unable to communicate, each hearing something different from what the other is trying to say, and each unable to say what they really mean. 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat “It was this unanimity of view which bound together in the compactness of a new feudalism the members of Bessy Amherst's world; which supplied them with their passwords and social tests, and defended them securely against the insidious attack of ideas.” 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman that scene is one that I keep thinking about. 2y

arubabookwoman @Graywacke @Lcsmcat And in this book, the despise the Wharton feels for the society people she is describing (and her own social milieu) is really there loud and clear. Bessy's family and friends were "so many sentinels ready to raise the drawbridge and drop the portcullis at [John's] approach," and to "push [Bessy] back into the deadening routine of her former life."?????? 2y

arubabookwoman And, "They had inexhaustibly amusing ways of drawing out and showing off each other's idiocy" (Re the Tefler twins, but applicable to any of the group). Some of Wharton's comments on the place of women are also interesting, and I liked this, reminiscent of Lily Bart, Justine thinking she did not want to become "one of the nomadic damsels who form camp followers of the great army of pleasure." 2y

arubabookwoman Mrs Ansell had an astute comment re Bessy: "Isn't she one of the most harrowing victims of the plan of bringing up our girls in the double bondage of expediency and unreality, corrupting their bodies with luxury and their brains with sentiment, and leaving them to reconcile the two as best they can, or lose their souls in the attempt." 2y

arubabookwoman Is this all heading for a "romantic" relationship between John and Justine? Wharton is certainly hinting that: They "were unconsciously drawn together by the fact that they were the only 2 strangers in the room. Everyone else had the same standpoint, spoke the same language, drew on the same stock of allusions, used the same weights and measures in estimating persons and actions." 2y

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman I highlighted some of those same quotes. I see the attraction between Justine and John as destroying their lives without giving them any consolation of loving and being loved. (Maybe I‘m just cynical about Wharton, but I don‘t see a happy ending for anyone.) (edited) 2y

arubabookwoman As to Bessy, "it was the torment of [her] situation that...she still loved Amherst though she could not forgive him for having married her." I find it interesting that Bessy is jealous of Justine, but not because of John, but rather because her daughter is so close to Justine. 2y

Currey @arubabookwoman @Lcsmcat @graywacke I concur on the section regarding Bessy and John‘s inability to communicate. I really felt pain for their awkward frustrations. And then a few pages later we have an example of perfect communication with Langhope and Mrs Ansell‘s argument. They did not agree with each other but they understood each other perfectly. (edited) 2y

arubabookwoman And I'm really getting annoyed at John-his ineffectiveness, lack of decisiveness. He began the reforms, but are we to take the fact that they are costing so much more than planned as a sign of his incompetence at actually accomplishing anything? He seems to just allowing himself to be manipulated by people and events, rather than acting on his own convictions. 2y

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman An interesting turn of phrase “could not forgive him for having married her” Why not for his ideas about the factory, or his not being who she wanted him to be. Such a specific and odd thing to begrudge. 2y

arubabookwoman @Lcsmcat Agree there will be no happy ending. I'm wondering whether John needs Justine (or someone like her--Fulvia?) to be effective at making reforms. The pinch is he also needs Bessy's money. 2y

Currey @arubabookwoman Is it conviction or just money John lacks? 2y

arubabookwoman @Currey I'm thinking he has conviction, but lacks the ability to implement his convictions. (Maybe a bit like Odo). 2y

arubabookwoman @Lcsmcat I think it's because in marrying her he has introduced conflict into her life. She never had to think about these things before. On the one hand she has her father and friends telling her that she's "stealing" from her daughter by reducing her income, on the other she wants to be "philanthropic." (edited) 2y

Currey @arubabookwoman I loved your idea of Fulvia walking into the story!! Wharton really is trying to work something out isn‘t she? 2y

arubabookwoman @Currey I'm finding it very interesting reading the work of one author in order. Wharton is certainly consistent in her themes. I won't say she is using "stock" characters (though to a certain extent some of the society hangers-on at social events are that), but we are seeing recurring types I think. 2y

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman It is interesting to say the least to watch Wharton approach similar problems from different angles, isn‘t it? On the unforgivable marriage, I feel like that phrasing is intended to tell us more than that they are unhappy. Maybe that Bessy is so unable to be self-aware that she has to blame him even for her still loving him? But that‘s not quite it either. Must ponder this some more. 2y

Lcsmcat @Currey I think it‘s mostly money, but also some conviction. He doesn‘t just want to do it with her money, he wants her to be invested as much as he is. 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman I‘m glad you quotes the reconcile comment - girls in the double bondage of expediency and unreality. Very apt here and also in many other circumstances. 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman @Lcsmcat I‘m also curious what Wharton is doing with John and Justine. Also, I think with Wharton as author, we have to be cynical. Whatever it is, should turn out badly. 🙂 2y

Graywacke @Currey interesting about the contrast of the Amhersts with Langhope and Ansel‘s natural communication. 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman @Currey I‘m beginning to understand John better and I don‘t think he‘s failing the workers. He‘s failing the marriage (because it comes second to him). If it were his money there would be no issues with cost. But as it‘s Bessy‘s he‘s trying to win her over - the big picture thing to do. And that means he needs to compromise his progress. I think that part makes sense. 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman @Currey @Lcsmcat - and lastly, I really appreciate this aspect of reading so much Wharton in order. Some of the keys to understanding this book lie in The Valley of Decision. (I think the word “feudalism” is a choice reference in what I quoted above.) But she‘s revisiting these themes in interesting ways. I feel a lot of reward with this. 2y

arubabookwoman @Graywacke @Currey Langhope and Ansell are in the same "tribe" so they can communicate. Bessy and John, though married are in different "tribes." (And also have personalities that make communication difficult for them). 2y

CarolynM @Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman @Currey I think Dan has summed up John's situation nicely. I agree with Deborah about communication and tribes but it is sad that a married couple doesn't at least try to overcome the barrier. Overall I was a bit frustrated with all the miscommunication, second-guessing and lack of self knowledge in this section. I'm wondering if there's foreshadowing of a riding accident for Bessy. 2y

Lcsmcat @CarolynM Oh, I didn‘t think of a riding accident. But it could be. 2y

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman The tribal/feudal aspects are front and center. No subtleties about them in this book. 2y

Graywacke @CarolynM @Lcsmcat I like that her favorite horse is named Impulse. 2y

jewright John and Bessy need marriage counseling. Neither one is a terrible person, but they can‘t communicate at all. Money is a huge issue in marriages today, so it‘s no surprise it is here. It makes me sad the death of the baby has impacted her relationship with her daughter, and I‘m sure it‘s a factor in their failing relationship as well. 2y

jewright @CarolynM I‘ve thought this as well. It doesn‘t help she‘s going to ride when she‘s upset. 2y

jewright I posted a quotation with the Jacob allusion about how John would wrestle until dawn with a problem, but if he couldn‘t solve it, he would just go on. She can‘t do that, so they both see the other one as unfeeling. (edited) 2y

TEArificbooks Just got caught up. I am also frustrated with John and Bessy‘s miscommunications and all the drama with the jealousy and people still trying to break them up. It was the most boring section so far as well. In some places I thought the love triangle would begin. I am starting to get Jane Austen vibes. 2y

Graywacke @jewright i like Jacob allusion too. (Did I understand correctly that, in the same thought, she imagines herself a squirrel spinning on a hamster wheel?) I think their differences are reconcilable and agree they seriously need a good marriage counselor. 2y

Graywacke @mdm139 completely agree. Frustrating and slow and wondering about Justine. Fortunately it‘s working for me, and still powerful. 2y

jewright @Graywacke Yes, and that illustrates their problem to communicate and understand each other. It doesn‘t solve everything but reading a few books about personality types and love languages and such was revolutionary for me. I used to be very hurt by introverts turning down invitations. Now, I don‘t take it personally. My need to socialize doesn‘t trump their need to refuel in quiet. If we understand how people are different, we can react better. 2y

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Graywacke

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

The Fruit of the Tree - Book I partVI to Book II part XIII #whartonbuddyread

Amherst has moved from a decrepit factory town to elaborate rose gardens, and 💰💰💰. The short sledding scene might an apt metaphor for his steep fall, and dismissal, followed by a gentle rise, marrying Bessy.

But, are you annoyed with John, at how little he has accomplished with so much, or hopeful with how he has “settled” himself and with what he _can_ now do?

Lcsmcat

Graywacke Also, how are you taking to John‘s dwellings? There is a lot. He dwells on the factory conditions, on winning Bessy, on his dismissal, on his attempts to manage the informal board and Bessy? He he dwells on his use of Bessy…and not on anything resembling affection. And he dwells on the perceived limitations of women - persistently (although apparently instep with everyone around him, men and women). 2y

Currey @Graywacke Annoyed. Annoyed that he is manipulative without real effect. Bessy still loves him but he does not seem to love her. She has gotten weepy. Thank goodness for Justine. 2y

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Graywacke I think it‘s a little funny he put so much into winning Bessy that he won her the wrong way. He won her hand, but not what he actually wanted - to lead her to a life-style comprising (and socially decent) charity. 2y

Currey @Graywacke I can‘t help but think Wharton is setting John up for his perceived limitations of women. Certainly Wharton does not believe in those limitations and she is really flagging it with John‘s musings on his mother and Bessy. Justine and Mrs Ansell are portrayed as very sharp however. At least so far. 2y

Graywacke @Currey yeah! Bessy went from strong to weepy. Justine is a nice counter. Any thoughts for Eustace Ansel, another strong woman, if a villainous one? - editing- you beat me to the question. (edited) 2y

Currey @Graywacke Eustace Ansel is an interesting character so far. She can read a room, can be subtly manipulative but also seems to care about people. She isn‘t very stereotypical so far. 2y

arubabookwoman John is kind of turning into an Odo-wants to do big things but unable to effectuate any of them. I don't think Bessy was ever strong ("strong to weepy"). Justine described her as chameleon like-able to project to whomever she was interacting with whatever they thought she was/should be. I think Justine is the female character to watch here. 2y

Graywacke @Currey on setting John up - I agree. Are his views of women preventing him from strengthening Bessy (And causing him to weaken her)? Wouldn‘t strengthening and supporting her be more constructive? Isn‘t he pushing for bold decisions? 2y

arubabookwoman I think it's interesting how Wharton has big things happen off-stage so to speak. Here John and Bessy are sledding down a hill, on the next page they've been married 3 years and have lost a child. I was surprised that so little had happened re John's factory plans. It's also interesting that the loss of their child has devastated Bessy, but John does not even seem to notice it. 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman I keep thinking of Odo too. Imagine if Fulvia has his positive? I enjoyed Justine‘s acid private commentary. And she‘s a fun irritating thorn in Amherst‘s side. Him telling her, seriously, no, don‘t make waves and do the right thing was very entertaining. 2y

Currey @Graywacke Also Bessy was mirroring Fulvia but now seems to have none of her backbone and Justine is, in circumstances at least, a bit like Lily 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman what do you think it means for John - not being all that affected by losing the child? 2y

Currey @arubabookwoman I agree Bessy was never portrayed as strong but she had to have stood up against her father and her society in general to marry John which had to have taken some personal strength. Of course Wharton skips over all that 2y

arubabookwoman @Graywacke Not sure what it means--Maybe he can see and empathize with suffering in the abstract (factory workers), but in personal relationships not so much. 2y

arubabookwoman @Graywacke Maybe Justine will turn into John's Fulvia. 2y

Louise Hello, All, I‘m a few chapters behind 🤦🏻‍♀️ and will try to catch up this week. Reading your comments with interest! Until soon. . . ! 2y

TEArificbooks I think people are trying to sabotage John and Bessy. They don‘t like John “marrying up” and they don‘t like them trying to change the status quo on operating a mill. And in all Wharton‘s books there is the person that questions their choices and lashes out at the people they love because of their own moral dilemmas. For this book it is John. I hope they can realize this and make the changes anyway and John stops being mean to Bessy. 2y

Lcsmcat @mdm139 Reflecting back to last week‘s love triangle comments, it seems like Bessy‘s family is trying to start one up! 2y

Lcsmcat I didn‘t think about Odo, but that‘s a great observation. My thoughts went forward to Ethan Fromme and I was bracing myself for a sledding accident. 2y

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman Why do you suppose Wharton has so much happen off stage? Is it like people who can‘t paint hands always having their models put their hands in their pockets? 2y

TEArificbooks @Lcsmcat yes I was thinking about Ethan Frome too. Wharton must have loved sledding. 2y

Lcsmcat @mdm139 I wondered if she toyed with the idea of an accident (there was so much talk of the falling dark, etc) and then decided to go in a different direction and saved that idea for EF. 2y

Lcsmcat @Currey @Graywacke I don‘t think Brady ever had backbone. Think about how Justine described her as taking on the attributes of whoever she was around and having no “self” of her own. 2y

Graywacke @Louise have you enjoyed what you have read? 2y

Graywacke @mdm139 @Lcsmcat I admit the possibility of a love triangle seemed really unlikely to me before, and then that marriage happened. @mdm139 I think the interests would be happy to merely sabotage John. 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @mdm139 so, my (entirely unsupported) theory on the sledding (and my memory of Ethan Frome is minimal) is that she found it here as a wonderful metaphor and couldn‘t drop it. So EF. 🙂 2y

Graywacke @mdm139 @Lcsmcat “A sled packed with them hung on the brink: with a last shout it was off, dipping down the incline with the long curved flight of a swallow, flashing across the wide meadow at the base of the hill, and tossed upward again by its own impetus, till it vanished in the dark rim of wood on the opposite height.” 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @Currey @arubabookwoman on Bessy. It‘s not that simple to me yet. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part. She may be a sap. But she made unorthodox sneaky moves to get more info out of John, and then when she was about to lose his help…married him. Hints of independence? Or insecurity outside her sheltered life? 2y

CarolynM I'm behind. I'll comment when catch up. 2y

Louise @Graywacke Yes, I‘m enjoying it. She‘s laying down tracks for so many plot possibilities. While the social commentary is a bit “on the nose” so far, there are exquisite phrasings that I keep marking with a pencil. Still, I must say that Cather‘s work speaks more directly to my heart. 2y

jewright @arubabookwoman This bothered me too. Why wasn‘t John upset about the baby at all? I totally believe it‘s a big part of Bessy‘s caving. She lost her baby. She cannot lose her husband too. 2y

jewright @Lcsmcat I thought this too! Ethan Fromme vibes for sure! 2y

jewright I was surprised by the time jump. I was hoping Bessy and John would be happy, but apparently Wharton can‘t ever let that happen. I‘m interested to see what happens with Justine. 2y

Lcsmcat @jewright @arubabookwoman There‘s a lot about John that I don‘t get - his attitude towards the loss of the baby, his basic disrespect towards women, his inability to see his plans through, or judge character . . . 2y

Graywacke @CarolynM no worries. 2y

Graywacke @Louise I‘m glad you‘re enjoying the language. I keep highlighting too, entire paragraphs. Cather is a different perspective. With Wharton we are getting a leisure class author, even if she‘s driven and angry and, if I‘m reading Justine Brent right, bitter. 2y

Graywacke @jewright @Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman Do you think Wharton expressing a kind of social critique with John‘s character? 2y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Yes, but I‘m not sure of what kind yet. Last week I would have said it was anti industrial robber barrons. This week I‘m not so sure. We‘ll have to watch John closely. 2y

TEArificbooks @Louise I like Cather way better too. I like her prose better 2y

Lcsmcat @mdm139 @Louise I agree that Wharton & Cather are very different writers. I find Cather‘s prose more lyrical. But Wharton has a way of delivering some razor-sharp social observations that are so beautifully put that the object of the attack has to think twice before they realize they‘ve been insulted, and some delicious metaphors that make me stop reading just to savor them. 2y

jewright @Lcsmcat -He seems different here than he did in book 1. He was so bent on reform he didn‘t care if he got fired, and he and his mother had to move. Now he can‘t make it happen? It‘s very like Odo. It‘s like government. Everyone is so sure they can go and change everything, and then they go and get sucked down in the muck of politics and lose their drive. 2y

Lcsmcat @jewright Yes! Not only was he willing to move, he was willing to get “blackballed” and perhaps not have work at all. If Wharton hadn‘t made him responsible for his mother, I could say he was just reckless. But that made him seem really committed to the cause. Now? Not so much. 2y

arubabookwoman @Graywacke Not sure she's expressing a "social" critique of John's character, but she's definitely depicting him as weak and not following through on his ideals. 2y

arubabookwoman @Lcsmcat @mdm139 I agree Cather and Wharton are very different writers. Cather was definitely lyrical and @Lcsmcat hit the nail on the head re wharton's observations make you think twice about the actual meaning of what she said. I find her very witty, with a dry subtle humor, despite the seriousness of her themes. Overall, I think I prefer Wharton, tho' they're both great. 2y

Louise @Graywacke Your words “a leisure class author” say a lot. @mdm139 @lcsmcat Yes, “lyrical” is an interesting way to describe Cather‘s writing. She achieves in prose what great poems achieve—a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. @arubabookwoman Yes, I think Wharton‘s prose is delicious for the mind because of the brilliant observations and clever turns of phrase; whereas Cather evokes her characters/settings with spare language. 2y

Graywacke @Louise @arubabookwoman been thinking about this. These are two New York City centric authors. Cather is an nyc arrival and her early stories are about wealthy people - an experience she had to imagine a bit. Her turn to Nebraska and New Mexico became very profound moves. She saw an ugly world and found some beautiful stuff, even when bitter. Wharton was born in the city leisure class and would later run away to France. But her writing…👇 2y

Graywacke stays in that nyc leisure class atmosphere. It‘s her strength. In a way she saw a pretty canvas laid over and ugly world and she dug under that canvas. In a way she was much more in tune with the 20th century ugliness - the world that is artificial, with cracks and grime ($$ and it‘s accompanying fear of loss of it). I‘m exposing my ideas of 20th-century ugliness here - an iffy argument. Hopefully doesn‘t weaken this comment too much. 2y

Louise @Graywacke Thank you for sharing these thoughts for us to chew on as we continue reading. I wonder if your idea of “20th-century ugliness” is rooted in the shift from the early optimism of the Industrial Age to the abuses and sense of dehumanization that came later. 2y

CarolynM Re John, I think he's an archetypal "man with a cause" - passionate and emotional about that cause, but very little moved by the personal concerns of those around him. I'm sure you've met people like him, I certainly have. I disagree that his not achieving much in 3 years shows weakness - it's pretty clear that Langhope, Tredgar & Gaines have been fighting him every inch of the way & Bessy is still as much influenced by them as by John. 2y

CarolynM Re Mrs Ansell, I'm seeing her as this story's Mme de Treymes - sly and manipulative, pretending to be a friend to the newcomers like John's mother and Justine but really only wanting to use them for what she sees as beneficial to her people. 2y

CarolynM Re Wharton v Cather, I'm definitely in the Cather camp. I think she is a lot kinder to her characters and I find them a lot more sympathetic. I also prefer her prose. I find myself skimming a bit through Wharton whereas with Cather I feel compelled to read every word. 2y

Graywacke @CarolynM i think you‘re insightful with John. And Cather is definitely kinder, Wharton can cut and sometimes does. Ansel and Treymes would have an interesting cup of tea together. 2y

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Graywacke

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

The Fruit of the Tree: Book I parts I - V
#whartonbuddyread

Idealists, robber barons and enablers - a literary muckraking. Well perhaps. Maybe inspired by Brendt, our nurse, John Ahmerst, a high society born factory manager, makes a desperate effort at reform. He clumsily (?) confronts his naive boss with her endangered underpaid workers - “these dim creatures of the underworld”. Can anything good come out of this? First impressions?

Lcsmcat

Graywacke Some quotes: “What he really wanted was to speak out, and yet escape the consequences” 2y

Graywacke “Her eyes turned from Amherst and rested on the faces pressing about her. There were many women's faces among them—the faces of fagged middle-age, and of sallow sedentary girlhood. For the first time Mrs. Westmore seemed to feel the bond of blood between herself and these dim creatures of the underworld” 2y

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Graywacke “In a flash he saw what he had forfeited by his choice of a calling—equal contact with the little circle of people who gave life its crowning grace and facility” 2y

Graywacke "Bored? Why, she has everything on earth she can want!"
"The ideal state for producing boredom—“ 2y

Graywacke (Anyone else sensing a repackaging of The Valley of Decision?) 2y

jewright So far this book reminds me a little of The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Reminds me of today and how the people at the top are so out of touch. Why wouldn‘t the wife be home with her kids?! Well, she has to make sure they eat! (edited) 2y

Currey @Graywacke She definitely has some consistent themes, doesn‘t she? I love that boredom quote. In general, I was happy to be back in Wharton‘s writing but am a bit confused about John Amherst. His mother was from the professional class but his father was a mechanic and he chose to be an assistant manager in a factory? I am not sure exactly what class assistant manager is and somehow this seems very important. 2y

arubabookwoman @jewright I too thought of The Jungle. I googled. The Jungle was published in 1905, this in 1907, so maybe...The Cambridge Companion to E.W. says that after the success of House of Mirth her publishers wanted another expose of NY high society, but E.W. didn't want to be labeled as a high society author. It says she "almost certainly" thought about the novel Annie Kilburn by WH Howells and other popular realist novels dealing with???????? 2y

arubabookwoman ...industrial problems in the Industrial northeast factory towns. I checked Amazon and Annie Kilburn is free for Kindle, so I downloaded it (as if I'll ever have time to read it). Other "industrial realist" novels mentioned were The Silent Partner by Phelps,The Stillwater Tragedy by Adrian (who sounds a bit like Dreiser's An American Tragedy), The Breadwinners by Hays, and The Moneymakers by ?? 2y

arubabookwoman @Graywacke I didn't think of Valley of Decision as I was reading, but now that you mention it, Amherst's idealism and Odo's idealism have parallels. Wonder what will develop for Amherst as the book progresses. 2y

arubabookwoman Of the Wharton's I've previously read (and grossly generalizing here) I've liked her novels of the "lower classes" more than the society novels (tho' I've also loved them). I'm thinking of Ethan Frome, Summer, and the Bunner Sisters. But despite Wharton's apparent wish not to be known as a "society" novelist, I think that is how she is best known. I am enjoying this one so far, and only hope it doesn't turn into too much of a polemic. 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman Cambridge Companion to Edith Wharton? ! I want…. 2y

arubabookwoman @Graywacke I don't have it--the excerpt I cited came up when I googled Fruit of the Tree--it was part of Chapter 8. But the whole book might be a good thing to have. ETA It's only $44 on Amazon--ha! (edited) 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman I found a table of contents. Only 200 pages and only a handful of books covered - but they are: AoI, CotC, HoM…and also Summer, Valley of Decision and this one (Ethan Frome is, I think, part of another chapter) - also it‘s $40 before shipping, unless you can find a used copy (edited) 2y

Graywacke @jewright Sinclair - not his book, but his book as taught to by my high school teachers (ie briefly) - came to my mind too. I can‘t help thinking Wharton is using the form of muckrakers as a literary tool - but that she is likely to bend it to a different will. 2y

Graywacke @Currey i was pondering class too. Not sure I have it right. I think assistant manager is roughly low-end white collar. Not sure though. 2y

llwheeler I had a much busier week than I was expecting so once again I'm behind. I'll catch up for next week! 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman VoD - yes, that‘s where i was going. Odo and his idealism, (failed) feudal reform and muse (Fulvia) transported to then-contemporary factory abuse. Brendt becomes a different kind of Fulvia. 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman Wharton is certainly mainly viewed as a critic of the nyc leisure class. So very interesting to see that she fought that reputation. 2y

Graywacke @llwheeler hi. No worries. It hasn‘t come up today, but I think most of us were surprised how easy this reads. It‘s faster than her previous books. Regardless wish you a less busy week. 2y

arubabookwoman I'm kind of wondering how much research EW did re the lives of factory workers and the poor. This would certainly have been far from her usual milieu. For his Rougon Macquart series Zola did all kinds of research into the various factions of society he portrayed. Can you see EW traipsing through the factories interviewing grimy factory girls? I envision at least her initial reaction as being similar to Bessies--sympathy and horror. 2y

TEArificbooks I am enjoying this one better than all the others. It is so much easier to read and I like that she is branching out to the “lower” class. I wonder if there will be a love triangle between the manager, the nurse, and the widow. I also like Bessy, refusing to listen to the men in her life telling her everything is fine, even though she says she is dumb she has good intuition that the men are lying to her. 2y

Lcsmcat I highlighted many quotes in this section, but having just gotten back home from a work “retreat” during which I was bombarded with people talking, this is my favorite: “subdued sounds and spacious stillnesses which are the last refinement of luxury.” 2y

Lcsmcat I marked the quote you did @Graywacke too. 2y

Lcsmcat For theme: “Where every stone is piled on another, through the whole stupid structure of selfishness and egotism, how can one be pulled out without making the whole thing topple? And whatever they‘re blind to, they always see that,” 2y

Lcsmcat And for sheer language: “a glance from her husband reduced her to a heaving pink nonentity.” 2y

Lcsmcat @mdm139 I‘m enjoying this one too. I wasn‘t predicting a triangle exactly, but more of a missed opportunity, like Lily in Mirth where the reader can see who the better choice of partner would be but the character can‘t. 2y

Graywacke @mdm139 I‘m appreciating that it‘s easier read too. A love triangle would spice this up. 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat 🙂 wishing you some quiet. Enjoyed those quotes. Jenga capitalism 2y

KathyWheeler I‘m really enjoying this so far. It‘s been an easy read and I was intrigued to see where it was going from the very beginning. I‘m also wondering about a love triangle. 2y

CarolynM This must be a good book because it is making me properly angry and stoking my socialist & feminist leanings. I love how she has captured that pompous self-righteousness of mediocre professional men in Tredegar - "to deny what was in his power to accord was the readiest way of proclaiming his authority" - & Amherst's more sensitive nature "his inward sense that Betsy Westmore stood in greater need of help than her work-people" ? 2y

CarolynM 👆 Obviously that's help of the moral/spiritual kind. As @jewright noted, many of the attitudes resonate strongly with a lot of what is going on in the world today. It seems to me that EW is also addressing the position of women in society and I'm interested to see how far Betsy will be manipulated by those around her. 2y

Graywacke @KathyWheeler glad you‘re enjoying. It‘s fun start to this. 2y

Graywacke @CarolynM Tredegar is pure enabler. Great quote. What will Wharton do with the Bessy? 2y

Graywacke @CarolynM @jewright - thinking about your comments on today, and of being out of touch. 2y

Lcsmcat @CarolynM I loved that bit about Tredegar too. So many people like him in the world still! It roused my “socialist and feminist” ire too. 2y

39 likes37 comments

Lcsmcat

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

I just started tonight, but I‘m finding it a quick read. I have to work Saturday morning so I won‘t be able to chime in until late afternoon, but I‘m looking forward to catching up then. #whartonbuddyread @Graywacke

Graywacke I planned for 5 hours of reading, but it took me half that…and now I finished our section too early. 🙂 2y

CarolynM I've read the first chapter - very promising! Hoping to be up to speed by Sunday. 2y

Cathythoughts This looks good! I may have to pass on this one though as I‘ve over booked myself 🙃. I‘ll try first chapter... 2y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke That just gives you time to ponder. 😀 2y

41 likes4 comments

TEArificbooks

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

Not loving my copy of the #whartonbuddyread book. They used large pages and the tiniest print imaginable.

Ladygodiva7 Yuck, it doesn‘t flow then. 2y

42 likes1 comment

Graywacke

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

Reminder. See you Saturday.

Lcsmcat

Currey Looking forward to it 2y

arubabookwoman Thanks for the reminder. I was thinking it was this weekend and started it this week. It's fast reading so far, and different than the Wharton's we've read so far. 2y

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CarolynM Thanks Dan 2y

jewright I actually like this one so far. 2y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman i‘ve barely read anything but I‘m also surprised how fast the first few pages read. 2y

Graywacke @Currey @CarolynM 👍 2y

Graywacke @jewright yay 🙂 2y

Louise Hoping to start reading it on Monday. 2y

Graywacke Well, that took half as long as I expected and now I‘m done with our section way too early. It was terrific. 2y

33 likes10 comments

Graywacke

The Fruit of the Tree | Edith Wharton

#whartonbuddyread
The Fruit of the Tree 1907

Our next Wharton novel. (Get this copy, W‘s own, for $3500, or maybe get a free ebook.) This is a 600 page tome, hence the schedule.

Feb 12: Book I parts I - V
Feb 19: Book I part VI to Book II part XIII
Feb 26: Book II part XIV to Book III part XX
Mar 5: Book III part XXI - XXVII
Mar 12: Book III part XXVIII to Book IV part XXXV
Mar 19: Book IV part XXXVI - XLVIII (end of the book)

Lcsmcat

Graywacke @megnews (in case you‘re interested) 2y

Lcsmcat I think I‘ll stick with the paperback copy I got from ThriftBooks. 😂 2y

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Cathythoughts Wow!! This looks great , I‘ve never heard of it. I might go for a less expensive copy though 😃 2y

Currey @Graywacke I think I will also go for the less expensive version and thank you for the slow and steady schedule. 2y

jewright I better get started now. I‘m a slow Wharton reader apparently. 2y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @Cathythoughts @Currey appreciating your financial sanity, but still, can you help imagining it on your shelves? (Or is that just me?) 2y

Graywacke @jewright I‘m worried because I have no sense of the pace of this one. Not sure if 100 pages a week will take me 3 hours (~2-minutes a page) or five hours (3 minutes a page)… or, goodness, perhaps more. 2y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Oh, the allure of holding a copy that Wharton held has its appeal, just not THAT much appeal. 😂 2y

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