WesternPhilosophy

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

Like much of everything else, WE MADE IT UP!
#josteingaarder #sophiesworld #kant #time #space #humanideas #wemadeitup #makingitupaswegoalong #philosophy #adventuresinphilosophy #westernphilosophy #deadphilosopherssociety #whereitallstarted

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GingerAntics

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

pick

What a trip. This book has some really strange parts to the plot, but it‘s still well worth the read. It will definitely get you thinking in different ways. This is a book that certainly harbours open mindedness and free thinking, even rejection of parents‘ ideas and beliefs without proper examination, so I can certainly see why this book has been banned and challenged by some groups.

GingerAntics #SophiesWorld #JosteinGaarder #Philosophy #WesternPhilosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety 3y

TheBookHippie Seriously loved it! 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie it was so fun to discuss these chapters with everyone. I‘m not sure what I would have made of this book without those discussions. I certainly would never have figured out that garden party. 3y

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TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I so agree! We needed each other for this read! 3y

ravenlee It was definitely a different experience from my first reading. The slower schedule, and the discussions, made a much greater impact. 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee this book is certainly an experience. I can‘t imagine trying to figure this book out on its own. I commend your brilliance in reading this on your own. 3y

kspenmoll The whole experience was just wonderful! 3y

17 likes7 comments

GingerAntics

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

#SophiesWorld #JosteinGaarder #Philosophy #WesternPhilosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll

Chrissyreadit To expose and explore the foundations of philosophy? 3y

kspenmoll Agree with @Chrissyreadit but also add he was hoping to reach a teen age audience- give them access to philosophy in a way that might intrigue them. 3y

TheBookHippie I agree with above. Get us all thinking but especially young people. 3y

GingerAntics What all of you said. I can‘t think of anything I could add to this. 3y

ravenlee @kspenmoll hit the nail on the head. 3y

9 likes5 comments

GingerAntics

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

#SophiesWorld #JosteinGaarder #Philosophy #WesternPhilosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll

Chrissyreadit This reminds me a little of the concept of quantum physics, some concepts and constructs are understood naturally and others are so challenging- is the difficulty in the educator or the student? 3y

kspenmoll Discussion of philosophy concepts etc. a must when exploring it as a project-I guess it is inherent or the nature of the beast(beast for me).I have learned so much from our discussions.I feel I am a perpetual student. See I am floundering- not sure I am answering the question! 3y

TheBookHippie I‘m such a student in all things. I read most books this way. To learn more than just the words written. 3y

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TheBookHippie Philosophy can be learned in as much as how to have an open mind to explore text I think. 🤷🏻‍♀️ you could not possibly ever say I know it all and it be true. 3y

GingerAntics @kspenmoll naw, you‘re doing great. 3y

GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit it might be a little of both? I never understood math because I didn‘t understand one way to do math. Once I had a teacher who taught me that there are many routs to the same answer, just like there are many routs to the same destination across town, math suddenly clicked for me. I think for some subjects we naturally see the different paths/understand even complex concepts, and others we need more guidance. 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie totally agree. I enjoy being a student (accept the stress of finals 😂🤣😂) and my mind is constantly looking for something new to explore. I‘ve always been that way. There is just no way one person could ever know anything. I think you‘d need a little of everyone on Earth, and even then all those people together STILL wouldn‘t know everything. I think that‘s the fun of learning stuff. I‘m a little weird like that, though. 3y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics AS AM I. Wierdos unite. 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie YEEEEES!!! 3y

ravenlee I don‘t know that reading a book is a philosophical project, although writing one sure is. I find myself agreeing with Socrates the more I read - all I know is that I know nothing. And I‘m so glad all the weirdos found each other here! It‘s a good place to be. 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee @TheBookHippie we are the weirdo support group, but I think dead philosophers society just sounds better. 3y

8 likes11 comments

GingerAntics

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

Do you feel like this book encompasses that many cultures, or are we seeing one path, or just a few paths, through history?
#SophiesWorld #JosteinGaarder #Philosophy #WesternPhilosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll

Chrissyreadit I definitely have a few I want to explore further and there were concepts I had never thought about before. I do see a process where philosophy seems to be a significant product of some types of culture and experience. I see this in psychology and counseling too- how you relate to treatment and the why if different forms of mental health/illness has a lot to do with culture. Now we know ACE scores underly so much of it! 3y

kspenmoll I was a history major- social & intellectual history. Mostly western & asian.my son was a history/philosophy major so I read many of history texts.Of course cultures, social history etc were included. So I came to this book familiar with those areas- I looked up more modern philosophers as we went along & have some books from my son to read. This study enriched me on so many levels! (edited) 3y

TheBookHippie I liked all the women mentioned -learning about hildegard von bingen was a gift. Most I knew but studying them again and more in depth and in discussion was such a gift. 3y

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GingerAntics @kspenmoll I came at it from that direction as well. I‘m a religious and intellectual historian. It‘s always interesting to see those things we‘re familiar with from a different angle though. 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie everything changes when you get to discuss it, don‘t you think? I feel like my brain just wraps around it more and more as we discuss. 3y

GingerAntics My one issue was that most of what we followed was western, Christian. We didn‘t really follow the western Jewish track. I would love to find a book that discussed Jewish philosophy and Muslim philosophy. I‘ve read a few individual Muslim philosophers and they‘re so interesting and have such a different perspective. They also had more women, earlier. Not sure about the Jewish track. I‘m excited for the Eastern track next, though. 3y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I agree we need more diverse readings. I do agree the discussion changes and stretches all of us in a good way! 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie if you come across anything, let me know. I keep looking. I‘m not sure if there is a comprehensive, but approachable book for each like this one, Pooh and Piglet. I wish there was. These are so helpful as a starting point. 3y

ravenlee @GingerAntics have you seen this? It looks interesting. Also there‘s a Cambridge Companion to Medieval Jewish Philosophy, though I‘m not sure it‘s still in print.

Andalus and Sefarad: On Philosophy and Its History in Islamic Spain

ravenlee I agree that this was a pretty narrow track, “western philosophy.” Interesting, but necessarily limited. About half of it was familiar from my undergraduate/graduate studies. I‘m looking forward to expanding our horizons with our upcoming reads! (edited) 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie @kspenmoll check out this book @ravenlee found. I agree. It looks really good. 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee I agree that he had to pick is battles as it were. I think his background is in western philosophy, so obviously that‘s what he could speak on, but also, if he‘d found some coauthors and added in the eastern and Middle Eastern and even African philosophy, this book would just be ridiculously huge and I think it would lose its readability. I think it‘s opened the door for experts in these other fields to write similar books. 3y

ravenlee It would be awesome to have something similar for different traditions. I think part of why it‘s confined to this single tradition is to show the progression through history and the influences that pile up. He couldn‘t really have thrown Zen philosophy, for instance, into the mix because it‘s not in the same line of tradition/influence. 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee exactly! I wish other people would write books like this. Trying to find books similar, that aren‘t overly academic to dip your toes in are hard to come by, sadly. 3y

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GingerAntics

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

Who are the wisest characters in the book?
#SophiesWorld #JosteinGaarder #Philosophy #WesternPhilosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll

Chrissyreadit Wisdom comes from having a growth mindset. And teaching philosophy certainly promotes a growth mindset. When might the potential change to a fixed mindset and why is my question 3y

kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit I agree. Some of us naturally have a growth mindset. Others do not & need coaching/teaching to stretch & grow. Some students I work with struggle to move into such a mindset. I often wonder if when they graduate their brains revert. Some brain differences make attaining a growth mindset challenging. 3y

kspenmoll I think Sophie & Hilde are more open due to their ages than adults. Many incidents in the book remind us of that. They are the wise ones, still open to any possibilities. 3y

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TheBookHippie @kspenmoll I agree the wise are open to possibility. It also seems some people just want someone to tell them what to think and believe and that‘s their comfort. Clearly. Look at society. They don‘t want to think. That‘s something I can‘t understand. Some just seem unable to grasp the concept of free thought. 3y

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit when I was a kid “growth mindset” and “fixed mindset” hadn‘t been invented yet. I agree everyone has a natural way of viewing the world, yet I disagree that you can only learn with one. You can learn with either, you just learn differently. I guess that‘s why I prefer learning styles to this “mindset” nonsense. 3y

GingerAntics @kspenmoll totally agree. I think in some sense Gaarder made this almost obvious with both mothers being kind of - not sure if absent minded is the right word, but sort of shrug and go with it type of people. Joanna‘s parents are definitely close minded and set in their ways. I guess we could argue the Albert and Alberto are both more open minded than their wives. It seems that this is equating open mindedness with wisdom, and I have to agree. 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie oh my god. I can‘t stand “my pastor said” or “the president said.” Are you quoting this person? If you‘re quoting them, great. If not, stop blindly following. My god. I‘ll admit that I don‘t understand everything I act on, but I trust the people who do understand those things. I don‘t know how vaccines work beyond the basics, but I trust scientists and medical doctors. I don‘t trust anyone who tells me to take dewormer. 🙄 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I don‘t know how that kills you, but seeing that people have died from it, and science says not to ingest it as a human, I firmly believe (hell, I know) people shouldn‘t be taking this crap. Who gets their medications from tractor supply?! Come on, people. 3y

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit not to disparage it if it works for you or your students. I just know a lot of really intelligent people who according to the lists and assessments have a fixed mindset, yet easily learn everything. I‘m the same way. I come up as fixed mindset no matter what, yet I can teach myself anything and I can learn from most people. I‘m open minded, and I just think that‘s far more important. (edited) 3y

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit this seems to just be one more way we/the education system is trying to make everyone the same. We have to turn the introverts into extroverts, we have to change students whose life experiences tell them life is one way, so they believe it‘s another way. Will that serve them in their actual lives outside of school and after school? Probably not. 3y

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit I just find trying to change who students are is a closed minded pursuit. Everyone can learn. Everyone just does it differently. Forcing students to change or trying to change them is simply sending the message that they are inherently wrong or that there is something wrong with them, which in itself hinders learning. 3y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics It BLOWS my mind these people eat at fast food but are worried about a scientist decades long work!! GAH..... Dewormer. OY. 3y

TheBookHippie It takes out all toxins that is the short version of how it kills you. It's akin to cancer is cured when you die because it's dead. However you had to die to get it to die in you. 3y

Chrissyreadit @GingerAntics have you read the book Mindset? It is more of a philosophy in many ways- it‘s not that people have one or the other by choice but rather striving through curiosity and conversation to encourage a growth mindset vs fear of the “wrong” answer or response limiting engagement. Everyone can strive to learn- or engage in many ways. Another example of fixed are people who ban books- out of fear of what books teach and keeping access to new 3y

Chrissyreadit Ideas or experiences limited. 3y

ravenlee I don‘t really agree with the childlike mindset being ideal. Yes, children have a greater capacity for wonder, are more open-minded - but they also lack the discretion to determine what‘s true/likely. Children are susceptible to whatever reasoning they are taught or figure out on their own, which can actually be really dangerous. Not sure that‘s something we should necessarily try to emulate. 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee isn‘t that the point of growing up, though? Trying different things, seeing what works and what doesn‘t, what‘s real and what isn‘t? I don‘t think anyone is advocating for full, free reign for children. I think we‘re talking about just nurturing that natural open mindedness. 3y

ravenlee I mean that the complete blank slate isn‘t necessarily the best model for philosophers, because it‘s too open to suggestion or misdirection. For children it‘s great, in the right parental hands. For Sophie and Hilde, they‘re definitely more open-minded than the adults around them. (edited) 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee exactly. Younger children need guidance. My concern comes in when parents indoctrinate their children and demonise any thought they don‘t agree with. That does just as much damage and letting kids believe what they want. 3y

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GingerAntics

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

Astronomy as philosophy. What did you think?
#SophiesWorld #JosteinGaarder #Philosophy #WesternPhilosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll

Chrissyreadit I loved this. My kids and I learned and discussed this so much when they were younger. It brought us to think about the world in a small way and how many possibilities exist that we are unaware of. 3y

kspenmoll It helps with the understanding that other worlds/ timelines can exist simultaneously without our awareness. The dream world in the book made this apparent, especially because I interpreted Sophie‘s world as in real time. 3y

kspenmoll Love stargazing. 3y

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TheBookHippie Love start gazing too. We are one layer. The other layers are seen in peeks sometimes I believe. It is massively bigger than we know that I‘m sure of. I think the veil of the other side is closer than we think. 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I agree with all of that!!! 3y

GingerAntics I have an app on my phone and tablet that let you stargaze even when you can‘t see the stars from light pollution or clouds. 💙💙💙 3y

ravenlee I loved this whole idea. It gives one a sense of the vastness of space and time. I think for Sophie and Alberto, to go from realizing they are merely characters trapped in a book, to escaping but still being confined to their characters, to specks in an infinite universe…that‘s a pretty cool change of perspective. 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee so kind of like the red bottle and blue bottle earlier in the cabin, but definitely on a much bigger scale. 3y

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GingerAntics

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

#SophiesWorld #JosteinGaarder #Philosophy #WesternPhilosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll

Chrissyreadit Absolutely yes!!! Years ago I considered being my children to a Presbyterian church instead of Catholic- but the view of predetermined destiny is why I did not. 3y

kspenmoll I just do not think that way. 3y

TheBookHippie Such nonsense 😝 why live? 3y

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GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit are the Presbyterians big into predestination? 3y

GingerAntics I think it matters, because if everything is predestined, why don‘t we just sit back and let predestination happen. Yet somehow this is the main view of America. We‘re America, we‘re destined to be this way. We were destined to be Americans. Rich people are destined to be powerful and have money. They deserve it. Poor people did something to deserve it. I guess you‘re only predestined if you‘re rich. Double standard as always. 3y

TheBookHippie Last I checked some believe it some do not depending what sect of it there is. It's all a bit much IMO. 3y

Chrissyreadit @GingerAntics @TheBookHippie it‘s in the cannon for Presbyterian but does not mean everyone believes it- kind of like how Catholics are not supposed to use birth control- cannon but not everyone believes it 🤣 3y

TheBookHippie @Chrissyreadit We just listened to a PC of USA church give a sermon on it wish I could find it- but she -the minister pretty much denounced it! I LOL'd ! I was like oh boy......you may pay for this, 3y

GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit that makes sense. I get not wanting to even run the risk. It‘s not in the Catholic canon at all, but I grew up knowing some people who believed in it. “God put you in this earth to do a specific thing.” Uuum… so which of these things I like doing is this one thing? What if it‘s something I hate? Ugh 3y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie @Chrissyreadit oooh, she could pay for that. The hardliners are rarely forgiving. 3y

ravenlee It depends on how you let the idea steer you. If it‘s all predestined and nothing you do matters, you can go to extremes and fear no consequences. On the other hand, you can dedicate yourself to living the best life you can and make the most of what you do have. 3y

ravenlee Personally, I hate the idea that I have no effect on my own life; though many things have happened over which I‘ve had little control. 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee same. I think this is where we can‘t confuse a lack of predestination with control. We only really control ourselves. Everyone acts for themselves, so those actions are absolutely going to influence the people around them. I think that‘s a really important distinction. 3y

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GingerAntics

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

#SophiesWorld #JosteinGaarder #Philosophy #WesternPhilosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll

Chrissyreadit Hilde teaches the final lesson! 3y

kspenmoll Hilde does teach that dad! 3y

TheBookHippie Hilde for sure teaches the final lesson. 3y

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GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie don‘t forget Sophie. I think Hilde and Albert became the sources of information, they‘re teaching and discussing the lesson, where as before it was Sophie and Alberto doing that. Sophie and Alberto are now watching from a distance and not involved, before that was Hilde‘s role (and sort of Albert‘s). (edited) 3y

GingerAntics Also, Albert was influencing the experiences of Sophie and Alberto with all of his notes to Hilde and the weird weather. Now, Sophie is swinging wrenches at people‘s heads and Sophie and Albert take the boat out on the lake. 3y

ravenlee I think Sophie‘s attempts to affect Hilde‘s world are along the lines of the postcards and other messages earlier in the story: they‘re subtle hints that more is going on than meets the eye, but inexplicable at the moment. 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee exactly. They switch who is acting on the other‘s world. 3y

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GingerAntics

Sophie's World: A Novel About the History of Philosophy | Jostein Gaarder

#SophiesWorld #JosteinGaarder #Philosophy #WesternPhilosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll

Chrissyreadit Im guessing you mean philosophically? Then yes, since the dream becomes real…. 3y

kspenmoll My immediate response was no. But that was a literal response. Without @Chrissyreadit ‘s response I would not even thought of the question in a philosophical sense. I need you people! I am quite literal yet I think wholisticly- integration & synthesis comes naturally to me. (edited) 3y

TheBookHippie @kspenmoll I think opposite you so together we are perfect!! 😂♥️ 3y

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TheBookHippie I would say yes as well. 3y

GingerAntics @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie @Chrissyreadit I love how we all balance each other out. I get a bit too literally as well. 3y

ravenlee There is quite a bit of irony throughout, which leads me to the Yes camp. 3y

GingerAntics @ravenlee I totally forgot about the irony!!! Brilliant!!! 3y

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