MoMisanthropistsMoProblems

Timon of Athens Act V
#shakespearereadalong

Timon blasts the craftsmen and senators with deep irony. Tell Athens he doesn‘t care. Also he‘s dying. Alcibiades turns merciful. This is a wrap for the 2020 plague year! Thoughts on the act, the play, on any consistency with this Timon and the one in Act I, on our year?

Thanks everyone for another terrific year of Shakespeare, especially @merelybookish and @GingerAntics - our fearless leaders.

Graywacke The playlist challenge continues. You can post any time today. Select a theme song of the play, post and be sure to have the #shakespearereadalong tag. I‘m calling this list our Christmas Hangover list. (edited) 4y

Graywacke Current list
1. The Worst Day Since Yesterday by Flogging Molly @Riveted_Reader_Melissa
2. The Handler by Muse @Cuilin
3. Nobody Love Me (everybody hates me) @merelybookish
4. Seven Times 7 by Brand New @mollyrotondo
5. No Children by The Mountain Goats @LitStephanie
6. Heaven Knows I‘m Miserable Now by The Smiths @graywacke
7. Mr. Lonely by Bobby Vinton @TheBookHippie
8. Friends by Jody Watley @batsy
9. Misery by Hanson @GingerAntics (edited) 4y

Graywacke @readinginthedark @Jess_Read_This @batsy @jewright @Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie @MoonWitch94 @mollyrotondo @Melismatic @CoffeeNBooks @Daisey @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @saresmoore @readordierachel @SamAnne @Liz_M @Kristy_K 4y

See All 69 Comments

Graywacke @mhillis @kathedron @Wife @Susannah @teainthelibrary @IamIamIam @Trashcanman @LitStephanie @Mtroiano @rabbitprincess @Sunraven @catebutler @slategreyskies @MrsMalaprop @Sace @wanderinglynn @MellieAntoinette @Cuilin @Gezemice 4y

Graywacke (As judging the list is challenging - welcoming any suggestions for a winner. 😁) 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke You can always put the names in a hat & randomly pick one. (edited) 4y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa 🙂 I would have to find a way to involve a wheel of fortune! 4y

Cuilin I guess Timon is consistently extreme in his beliefs. There‘s no middle road. Alcibiades is more astute. Timon‘s last conversation with the senators is evident that he has absolutely given up. The soldier finding Timon‘s epitaph is quite moving. In the end I felt quite sorry for Timon, missed Apemantus and rejoiced in Alcibiades ability to compromise. 4y

TheBookHippie Such a great year of reading Shakespeare so much of it relatable to today!! 🤯 so grateful to our leaders! As for the songs BRAVO to everyone ...🤍 4y

TheBookHippie @Riveted_Reader_Melissa good plan! 4y

TheBookHippie I enjoyed the reading of this one. I do think our timing of the reading was spot on! Even yesterday finishing up and reading about the fight in US Congress about handouts and then reading the ending of Timon it was all 🤯😩 Timon not only burned his bridges he torched the whole lot including himself. Always extremes. Just wow. 4y

Lcsmcat @Cuilin The epitaph was moving ( and necessary for the plot) but was anyone else thinking “So who buried him?” Not exactly something he could do himself. 😂 4y

batsy I enjoyed this play, too & there's something about Timon's extreme misanthropy that I find compelling. It seemed like in his mind, he played by the rules of a society that values material contributions over anything else & still it wasn't enough. I missed Apemantus in this act, as well. The fact that Alcibiades gets the last word made me think of how rhetoric wins the day in politics while everything is a shambles. Once again, highly relatable 😆 4y

Lcsmcat I enjoyed reading this, although I agree it‘s not Will‘s best effort. But I‘m really glad I don‘t have to live with Timon! He‘s like an overgrown toddler. Or a teenager - they can be pretty similar. 😂 But not a mature man for sure! 4y

Graywacke @batsy materialistic nihilism? 4y

MoonWitch94 I enjoyed this one, too. I agree with you @batsy that Timon‘s extreme misanthropy was compelling. 4y

Cuilin @Lcsmcat -conspiracy theory- he ran away because no one would leave him alone. 😄 4y

Graywacke So my signet edition tells me that Timon was only published because of a legal dispute over Troiles and Creseida. The Folio left in blank pages, then filled most of them in with this incomplete play. Otherwise Timon is lost (which, for me , begs the question - what else was left out? ! How much did this writer (or play company) have lying around?) A little perspective. (edited) 4y

Graywacke @Cuilin since you picked up my question (🙂), I highly recommend the David Cook essay in the Signet edition. It‘s readable and he explores this. My notes include: * Quest for fame
* Fortune
* Pride - good and bad (I see Titus here too)
* God to beast - failure of civil conversation - of reason and prudence
* Acceptance of the limits of the human condition
* Excess - before and after his fall
* Timon and extremes
* Contrast Timon and Alcibiades 4y

Graywacke And my favorite note: Apemantus as a strange voice of reason - first to warn Timon of his fragile standing and then to challenge his escapism “to shake Timon from his complacent world of private hatred “. Apemantus shakes complacency always, and ... he challenges the narcissistic aspect of Timon‘s misanthropy. !! 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie thank you and glad you enjoyed! Timon would not handle US politics well, but he would have opinions on capitalism... 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I figured he was washed away to sea - but i had the same question about his burial and engraving of the epitaphs. There‘s a Monty Python skit in there somewhere... 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke 😂 4y

Lcsmcat @Cuilin Could be. He ran away once, why not again? 🤷🏻‍♀️ 4y

Graywacke @batsy rhetoric wins. Hmm. Materialism!! I think Timon has more meaning today than at any time in the past because of our current dependence on materialism. I also missed Apemantus and found act V anticlimactic. But Timon really rejoiced in his hatred - I thoroughly enjoyed that too! ☺️ 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat a teenager! Yes. As the center of the world, he thinks he‘s god and sulks when he learns he isn‘t. That is (1st world) teenage life... (modern Timon: Act I on dad‘s money. Act 2 dad cut him off. Act III he asks his friends for money...and so on. 🙂) 4y

Graywacke @MoonWitch94 should we worry about ourselves? ( @batsy ) 4y

Graywacke @Cuilin i just love that you have a conspiracy theory on Timon! 😆 (edited) 4y

MoonWitch94 @Graywacke 🤣😂😉 4y

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat 🤣🤣🤣who buried him ?!?! 4y

merelybookish All these comments are making me appreciate the play more because I found it pretty so-so. I didn't connect much to Timon. Like @Lcsmcat I found Timon pretty immature. He didn't feel very fleshed out, like he had two settings. Full bon vivant or full misanthrope. But yeah to a good year of Shakespeare! In January we dive into Henry VI, Part I. Can't remember who is leading. 🤔 4y

mollyrotondo I really liked this play even though I thought Act V wrapped up too quickly. What I found interesting was that Timon dismisses Athens and wanted to see it burned after only three “friends” screwed him over but we find out that the people of Athens really did like him and respect him according the Senators. So was Timon‘s reaction really justified? Did the Senators just say that to Timon in order to get him to come back with his newly found gold? 4y

mollyrotondo Three “friends” make him see how much he was truly being used but three “friends” come to visit him in his cave to try to get him to return. So is he right to be so angry or wrong? It‘s very ambiguous which I find interesting for a Shakespeare. It makes sense that this play was found unfinished. 4y

mollyrotondo @Graywacke I need to go back and read the Signet extras for sure 4y

batsy @Graywacke @MoonWitch94 Just a tiny bit 😂 4y

batsy @TheBookHippie Hahaha that's a very valid question, @Lcsmcat 💀 4y

GingerAntics I‘m still trying to figure out who buried Timon. He certainly didn‘t bury himself. Or did I misread that his grave/headstone was found? (edited) 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish agree the comments really do help. For H VI - I think whoever did Merchant of Venice leads. ?? Think that‘s @GingerAntics 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo The Signet extras are interesting but, you know, work. David Cook‘s essay was actually really fascinating and more readable than the usual turgid stuff. One correction: in Act 2 Flavius tells the senate of Athens turned him down. As for the righteousness his anger... well ... 😳 4y

Graywacke @batsy @MoonWitch94 😟 (☺️) 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics plot 🕳 !! 4y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Cuilin @merelybookish @mollyrotondo @LitStephanie @graywacke @TheBookHippie @batsy @GingerAntics ok, i re-listened to the whole music list and after a lot of indecision, a sudden serious interest in prozac, and a little alternate thinking, this optimistic bit just made me laugh: In my life, I hope I lie
And tell everyone you were a good wife
And I hope you die
I hope we both die 4y

Graywacke So, @LitStephanie is the winner with No Children by The Mountain Goats. 4y

LitStephanie Oh wow! I feel so honored. What a fun contest! 4y

batsy Nice! 😆 Congrats @LitStephanie 🎉 4y

batsy @Graywacke #MoMisanthropistsMoProblems 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke 🤣😂🤣 I‘m sorry if any of my indecision rubbed off on you from my posts. That sounds like a clear winner to me, too!!! 🤣😂🤣 Good choice, @LitStephanie. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke oh good it wasn‘t just me that noticed then. Perhaps he conveniently fell, hit his head on a rock (thus killing him) causing a small rock slide (thus burying him), next to where he‘d hoped his body would end up, so the stone saying “Here Lies Timon, he hates you so bugger off (unless your Flavius, then I told you not to lend money)” was right there. I think I‘ve figured out how it happened. No plot holes here!!! 🤣😂🤣 4y

TheBookHippie @Graywacke 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼so good!! 4y

TheBookHippie @mollyrotondo @batsy got me hooked on signet. They are really good. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics RIGHT?!?!?! WHO BURIED HIM?! 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics 🙂 definitely not just you, somewhere up in the comments @Lcsmcat brought it up and @Cuilin presented a slightly different theory (😊). ( @TheBookHippie ) 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie - @batsy convinced me on Signet too! Now my go-to. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @LitStephanie Congratulations!!! 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke I‘m liking the conspiracy theory now....he buried a pile of rocks to make everyone feel guilty and then bought himself a ship and a new life with more gold he just happened to find buried...and has started a new life in....hmmm...Egypt? Macedonia? 😂. How‘s that @GingerAntics ? (edited) 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @batsy That‘s the best tag! 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @GingerAntics He was just really tired of them coming and asking for help or money and decided that was the only way to really get rid of them... 4y

batsy @TheBookHippie @Graywacke My job here is done 😁 #SignetSquad 4y

batsy @Riveted_Reader_Melissa 😆 4y

GingerAntics @Riveted_Reader_Melissa oh, I do like that one!!! It‘s all a ruse. He‘s taken a new name and everything. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke now I have to go find this new theory, but @Riveted_Reader_Melissa has a much better one than mine. No one actually dug him up to make sure he was really in there. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @GingerAntics That should be the epilogue Act! Fie on all their houses, I‘m outta here! 🤪 4y

GingerAntics @Lcsmcat @Cuilin I‘m so glad I‘m not the only one wondering how he got buried. I like the theories that he ran away, changed his name, and started over. The grave is just so they‘ll leave him alone. It‘s far more plausible then the strange theory I came up with for how he got buried. So much simpler, too. 4y

Lcsmcat @Riveted_Reader_Melissa 😂 4y

Cuilin @GingerAntics Also what happened the left over gold?? New life, perhaps? 🤔 4y

GingerAntics @Cuilin see, this is very logical to me. Perhaps The Tempest is secretly a sequel. 4y

Cuilin @GingerAntics ok. I see where you‘re going. We never learn where Caliban comes from. Right? Hmm I may need to reread the Tempest. Gosh who knew this play would have me spouting Shakespeare conspiracy theories. 😄 4y

GingerAntics @Cuilin who knew?! I think we‘ve become fully fledged Shakespearean conspiracy theorists. I‘m all for Caliban secretly being Timon. 4y

LitStephanie @batsy @GingerAntics @Riveted_Reader_Melissa thanks! 4y

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