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Timon of Athens
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
46 posts | 18 read | 7 to read
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review
martellax
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Pickpick

I believe this is one of Shakespeare‘s most criminally underrated plays. Through exploring the theme of misanthropy he creates a character that takes you on a rollercoaster of sympathy and hatred. The main character, Timon, transforms from a rich and loathsome man to a misanthrope who detests the rich/aristocracy. This leads to him eventually living out a life of loneliness and betrayal.

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review
Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Pickpick

“Shame not these woods by putting on the cunning of a carper.”

Our latest #shakespearereadalong This wasn‘t supposed to be preserved and apparently was never finished. It‘s awkward and yet thought provoking. It has the unique aspect of having one misanthrop take down another for the narcissism of his misanthropy! Poor Timon. He goes from riches to rags so bitterly that gold loses its luster. Fun to talk about (and wonder how he buried himself).

GingerAntics I think we figured out how he buried himself. 😏 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics I don‘t know, conspiracy theory... 🤭 4y
GingerAntics The jury is still out on confirmation, but we‘re paying really close attention next time we read The Tempest. 🤣 4y
See All 6 Comments
Graywacke @GingerAntics it‘s so hard to think that through and not start laughing at how good the fit is. Subtitle: Caliban, the background story. 4y
GingerAntics 🤣😂🤣 4y
40 likes6 comments
review
LitStephanie
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
Pickpick

This play was never quite finished, and sometimes that is apparent, but it is still darkly humorous and very enjoyable. A rich man who loves to throw his money around finds out how comically false his friends/benefactors are when he goes broke. The lack of female characters is uncharacteristic for Shakespeare--maybe this is more satire because without female influence, this city is rotten and corrupt! #shakespearereadalong

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LitStephanie
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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I love this quote about how promising is the fashionable thing to do; performance of what is promised is for idiots. 🤣
#shakespearereadalong

review
batsy
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Pickpick

"To be in anger is impiety; But who is man that is not angry?" In a way, Alcibiades having the last word in a play named for another captures the underlying sorrow. I know Timon's position is extreme, but it once again speaks to a kind indictment of society that Shakespeare might have been wrestling with, of which Timon appears as a symptom. The juxtaposition of philanthropy & misanthropy in this play is interesting, because the social order ??

batsy would have been changing as the capitalist system began to take root, & this play has all of the anger of the changing times baked into it that seems highly relevant in 2020. Who isn't angry? By that token it's far from a perfect play because it seems quite raw, & thus comes off as a rant. Maybe this is the lengthy blog post diatribe version of Shakespeare's plays 🙂 #shakespearereadalong 4y
batsy Thank you for another fabulous year of Shakespeare @Graywacke @merelybookish @GingerAntics ! 4y
TheBookHippie I enjoyed it as well. Seemed so relevant to today! 4y
See All 17 Comments
TrishB Great review as always 👍🏻 4y
Graywacke Great review. Gives me some things to think about. 4y
batsy @TheBookHippie Yes! And I feel like I've said this about all the plays we read this year 😆 4y
batsy @TrishB @Graywacke Thank you! 🙂 4y
GingerAntics That‘s a really good way to describe this play. The more we‘ve talked about this play, the more my opinion shifts from so-so to pick. 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics i agree - it‘s a strange play but really fascinating to think about and talk about. 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke absolutely. On its own, it‘s a bit weird. Once you get talking and really thinking about it, it‘s fascinating... with a potential spin off into The Tempest. 4y
TheBookHippie @batsy ME TOO! every single play! 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics ok, the Tempest conversation had me laughing... 🙂 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke 🤣😂🤣 see, next time we read the tempest, you‘re going to pay close attention, aren‘t you? 🤣😂🤣 4y
Cathythoughts Great thoughts ... anger / sadness ... sadness is so much harder .. as always , you have me thinking philosophically 🙏🙏🙏❤️ 4y
batsy @Cathythoughts Sadness is so much harder, Cathy. Anger might be a refuge sometimes? This play feels very relevant for our current situation. Thanks for your thoughts ❤️ 4y
merelybookish Excellent review! You've given me so much more to consider/ appreciate about this play. Which I will admit I found to be a bit repetitive and whiny. Which I guess could describe my feelings about the past year as well. 😬 4y
batsy @merelybookish Thank you! It seems like Shakespeare's plays can be a pretty astute reflection of our current moment (and how we're feeling about it! 😅) Happy holidays Margot and I hope it's a peaceful, relaxing one! 4y
86 likes2 stack adds17 comments
blurb
Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Timon of Athens Act V
#shakespearereadalong

Timon blasts the craftsmen and senators with deep irony. Tell Athens he doesn‘t care. Also he‘s dying. Alcibiades turns merciful. This is a wrap for the 2020 plague year! Thoughts on the act, the play, on any consistency with this Timon and the one in Act I, on our year?

Thanks everyone for another terrific year of Shakespeare, especially @merelybookish and @GingerAntics - our fearless leaders.

Graywacke The playlist challenge continues. You can post any time today. Select a theme song of the play, post and be sure to have the #shakespearereadalong tag. I‘m calling this list our Christmas Hangover list. (edited) 4y
Graywacke Current list
1. The Worst Day Since Yesterday by Flogging Molly @Riveted_Reader_Melissa
2. The Handler by Muse @Cuilin
3. Nobody Love Me (everybody hates me) @merelybookish
4. Seven Times 7 by Brand New @mollyrotondo
5. No Children by The Mountain Goats @LitStephanie
6. Heaven Knows I‘m Miserable Now by The Smiths @graywacke
7. Mr. Lonely by Bobby Vinton @TheBookHippie
8. Friends by Jody Watley @batsy
9. Misery by Hanson @GingerAntics
(edited) 4y
See All 69 Comments
Graywacke (As judging the list is challenging - welcoming any suggestions for a winner. 😁) 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke You can always put the names in a hat & randomly pick one. (edited) 4y
Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa 🙂 I would have to find a way to involve a wheel of fortune! 4y
Cuilin I guess Timon is consistently extreme in his beliefs. There‘s no middle road. Alcibiades is more astute. Timon‘s last conversation with the senators is evident that he has absolutely given up. The soldier finding Timon‘s epitaph is quite moving. In the end I felt quite sorry for Timon, missed Apemantus and rejoiced in Alcibiades ability to compromise. 4y
TheBookHippie Such a great year of reading Shakespeare so much of it relatable to today!! 🤯 so grateful to our leaders! As for the songs BRAVO to everyone ...🤍 4y
TheBookHippie I enjoyed the reading of this one. I do think our timing of the reading was spot on! Even yesterday finishing up and reading about the fight in US Congress about handouts and then reading the ending of Timon it was all 🤯😩 Timon not only burned his bridges he torched the whole lot including himself. Always extremes. Just wow. 4y
Lcsmcat @Cuilin The epitaph was moving ( and necessary for the plot) but was anyone else thinking “So who buried him?” Not exactly something he could do himself. 😂 4y
batsy I enjoyed this play, too & there's something about Timon's extreme misanthropy that I find compelling. It seemed like in his mind, he played by the rules of a society that values material contributions over anything else & still it wasn't enough. I missed Apemantus in this act, as well. The fact that Alcibiades gets the last word made me think of how rhetoric wins the day in politics while everything is a shambles. Once again, highly relatable 😆 4y
Lcsmcat I enjoyed reading this, although I agree it‘s not Will‘s best effort. But I‘m really glad I don‘t have to live with Timon! He‘s like an overgrown toddler. Or a teenager - they can be pretty similar. 😂 But not a mature man for sure! 4y
Graywacke @batsy materialistic nihilism? 4y
MoonWitch94 I enjoyed this one, too. I agree with you @batsy that Timon‘s extreme misanthropy was compelling. 4y
Cuilin @Lcsmcat -conspiracy theory- he ran away because no one would leave him alone. 😄 4y
Graywacke So my signet edition tells me that Timon was only published because of a legal dispute over Troiles and Creseida. The Folio left in blank pages, then filled most of them in with this incomplete play. Otherwise Timon is lost (which, for me , begs the question - what else was left out? ! How much did this writer (or play company) have lying around?) A little perspective. (edited) 4y
Graywacke @Cuilin since you picked up my question (🙂), I highly recommend the David Cook essay in the Signet edition. It‘s readable and he explores this. My notes include: * Quest for fame
* Fortune
* Pride - good and bad (I see Titus here too)
* God to beast - failure of civil conversation - of reason and prudence
* Acceptance of the limits of the human condition
* Excess - before and after his fall
* Timon and extremes
* Contrast Timon and Alcibiades
4y
Graywacke And my favorite note: Apemantus as a strange voice of reason - first to warn Timon of his fragile standing and then to challenge his escapism “to shake Timon from his complacent world of private hatred “. Apemantus shakes complacency always, and ... he challenges the narcissistic aspect of Timon‘s misanthropy. !! 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie thank you and glad you enjoyed! Timon would not handle US politics well, but he would have opinions on capitalism... 4y
Graywacke @Lcsmcat I figured he was washed away to sea - but i had the same question about his burial and engraving of the epitaphs. There‘s a Monty Python skit in there somewhere... 4y
Lcsmcat @Cuilin Could be. He ran away once, why not again? 🤷🏻‍♀️ 4y
Graywacke @batsy rhetoric wins. Hmm. Materialism!! I think Timon has more meaning today than at any time in the past because of our current dependence on materialism. I also missed Apemantus and found act V anticlimactic. But Timon really rejoiced in his hatred - I thoroughly enjoyed that too! ☺️ 4y
Graywacke @Lcsmcat a teenager! Yes. As the center of the world, he thinks he‘s god and sulks when he learns he isn‘t. That is (1st world) teenage life... (modern Timon: Act I on dad‘s money. Act 2 dad cut him off. Act III he asks his friends for money...and so on. 🙂) 4y
Graywacke @MoonWitch94 should we worry about ourselves? ( @batsy ) 4y
Graywacke @Cuilin i just love that you have a conspiracy theory on Timon! 😆 (edited) 4y
MoonWitch94 @Graywacke 🤣😂😉 4y
TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat 🤣🤣🤣who buried him ?!?! 4y
merelybookish All these comments are making me appreciate the play more because I found it pretty so-so. I didn't connect much to Timon. Like @Lcsmcat I found Timon pretty immature. He didn't feel very fleshed out, like he had two settings. Full bon vivant or full misanthrope. But yeah to a good year of Shakespeare! In January we dive into Henry VI, Part I. Can't remember who is leading. 🤔 4y
mollyrotondo I really liked this play even though I thought Act V wrapped up too quickly. What I found interesting was that Timon dismisses Athens and wanted to see it burned after only three “friends” screwed him over but we find out that the people of Athens really did like him and respect him according the Senators. So was Timon‘s reaction really justified? Did the Senators just say that to Timon in order to get him to come back with his newly found gold? 4y
mollyrotondo Three “friends” make him see how much he was truly being used but three “friends” come to visit him in his cave to try to get him to return. So is he right to be so angry or wrong? It‘s very ambiguous which I find interesting for a Shakespeare. It makes sense that this play was found unfinished. 4y
mollyrotondo @Graywacke I need to go back and read the Signet extras for sure 4y
batsy @Graywacke @MoonWitch94 Just a tiny bit 😂 4y
batsy @TheBookHippie Hahaha that's a very valid question, @Lcsmcat 💀 4y
GingerAntics I‘m still trying to figure out who buried Timon. He certainly didn‘t bury himself. Or did I misread that his grave/headstone was found? (edited) 4y
Graywacke @merelybookish agree the comments really do help. For H VI - I think whoever did Merchant of Venice leads. ?? Think that‘s @GingerAntics 4y
Graywacke @mollyrotondo The Signet extras are interesting but, you know, work. David Cook‘s essay was actually really fascinating and more readable than the usual turgid stuff. One correction: in Act 2 Flavius tells the senate of Athens turned him down. As for the righteousness his anger... well ... 😳 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics plot 🕳 !! 4y
Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Cuilin @merelybookish @mollyrotondo @LitStephanie @graywacke @TheBookHippie @batsy @GingerAntics ok, i re-listened to the whole music list and after a lot of indecision, a sudden serious interest in prozac, and a little alternate thinking, this optimistic bit just made me laugh: In my life, I hope I lie
And tell everyone you were a good wife
And I hope you die
I hope we both die
4y
Graywacke So, @LitStephanie is the winner with No Children by The Mountain Goats. 4y
LitStephanie Oh wow! I feel so honored. What a fun contest! 4y
batsy Nice! 😆 Congrats @LitStephanie 🎉 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke 🤣😂🤣 I‘m sorry if any of my indecision rubbed off on you from my posts. That sounds like a clear winner to me, too!!! 🤣😂🤣 Good choice, @LitStephanie. 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke oh good it wasn‘t just me that noticed then. Perhaps he conveniently fell, hit his head on a rock (thus killing him) causing a small rock slide (thus burying him), next to where he‘d hoped his body would end up, so the stone saying “Here Lies Timon, he hates you so bugger off (unless your Flavius, then I told you not to lend money)” was right there. I think I‘ve figured out how it happened. No plot holes here!!! 🤣😂🤣 4y
TheBookHippie @Graywacke 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼so good!! 4y
TheBookHippie @mollyrotondo @batsy got me hooked on signet. They are really good. 4y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics RIGHT?!?!?! WHO BURIED HIM?! 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics 🙂 definitely not just you, somewhere up in the comments @Lcsmcat brought it up and @Cuilin presented a slightly different theory (😊). ( @TheBookHippie ) 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie - @batsy convinced me on Signet too! Now my go-to. 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke I‘m liking the conspiracy theory now....he buried a pile of rocks to make everyone feel guilty and then bought himself a ship and a new life with more gold he just happened to find buried...and has started a new life in....hmmm...Egypt? Macedonia? 😂. How‘s that @GingerAntics ? (edited) 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @batsy That‘s the best tag! 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @GingerAntics He was just really tired of them coming and asking for help or money and decided that was the only way to really get rid of them... 4y
batsy @TheBookHippie @Graywacke My job here is done 😁 #SignetSquad 4y
GingerAntics @Riveted_Reader_Melissa oh, I do like that one!!! It‘s all a ruse. He‘s taken a new name and everything. 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke now I have to go find this new theory, but @Riveted_Reader_Melissa has a much better one than mine. No one actually dug him up to make sure he was really in there. 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @GingerAntics That should be the epilogue Act! Fie on all their houses, I‘m outta here! 🤪 4y
GingerAntics @Lcsmcat @Cuilin I‘m so glad I‘m not the only one wondering how he got buried. I like the theories that he ran away, changed his name, and started over. The grave is just so they‘ll leave him alone. It‘s far more plausible then the strange theory I came up with for how he got buried. So much simpler, too. 4y
Cuilin @GingerAntics Also what happened the left over gold?? New life, perhaps? 🤔 4y
GingerAntics @Cuilin see, this is very logical to me. Perhaps The Tempest is secretly a sequel. 4y
Cuilin @GingerAntics ok. I see where you‘re going. We never learn where Caliban comes from. Right? Hmm I may need to reread the Tempest. Gosh who knew this play would have me spouting Shakespeare conspiracy theories. 😄 4y
GingerAntics @Cuilin who knew?! I think we‘ve become fully fledged Shakespearean conspiracy theorists. I‘m all for Caliban secretly being Timon. 4y
38 likes69 comments
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GingerAntics
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Okay, I‘ve finally decided. It‘s got a bit for Athens, a bit for Flavius, the chorus is really obvious, but what can you do?
“This time, I won't take it back
Something's coming to you
This time, I'm gonna breathe a breath
Walking on down the road
I can never promise that never be lonely
But as long as we're together it can always only be
Misery”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5-Ai1tmw-c
#TimonOfAthens #shakespearereadalong #hanson #misery

TheBookHippie 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 4y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I‘ve spent an inordinate amount of time listening to the two songs I had it narrowed down to over the last few days. The right decision finally came to me. 🤣😂🤣 4y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I spent a lot of time singing nobody likes me everybody hates me I think I‘ll go eat worms 🤣🤪😩 4y
See All 9 Comments
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics thank god we are on winter break I need to do nada for a while 🤣 4y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie you and me both. Sadly, we‘re still doing winter term. Not a fan. I‘ll get a week off at least from Christmas Day to 4 January. 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics awesome and so funny about all the indecision. (What was the other song?) (edited) 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie too funny. 🤣🤣🤣 ( @merelybookish - you‘re dangerous!) 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke the other song is from this same album. It‘s called “When You‘re Gone.” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ckFxc-9TZ60 4y
15 likes9 comments
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batsy
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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You picked a great Smiths track @Graywacke so I'm going with Jody Watley's 80s pop track about "friends" ? Just the kind of thing I expect Timon to bop around to during those long, lonely hours in the forest.

"Friends", Jody Watley https://youtu.be/pFeeudt9tIU

#ShakespeareReadAlong

Cathythoughts Well that was Brilliant! Thanks for the link 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Great pick! 4y
batsy @Cathythoughts My pleasure! Catchy, isn't it 😁 4y
Graywacke @batsy new to me. 🙂 The lyrics!! 4y
67 likes5 comments
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GingerAntics
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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For the Timon of Athens Theme Song Challenge, I‘m torn between two songs, both from this album...
When You‘re Gone and Misery.
WYG works because it‘s basically what Timon is thinking after the bottom falls out. Misery works for the title alone, but the first verse is also very much what Timon feels in the second half of the play.
Decisions, decisions.
#Shakespeare #TimonOfAthens #shakespearereadalong

GingerAntics When You‘re Gone (song) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ckFxc-9TZ60 (lyrics) https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/hanson/whenyouregone.html This first version of this one is perfect, too. Bloody hell. I‘m leaning toward this one, though. (edited) 4y
GingerAntics Misery (song) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5-Ai1tmw-c (lyrics) https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/hanson/misery.html this one does have a catchy guitar riff at the beginning. (edited) 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke if it makes you feel any better, just before I posted I narrowed it from 3 songs, to 2. I have the perfect song for Timon and Flavius, though. In their spin off show, I got the theme song for that in the bag!!! 🤣😂🤣 4y
TheBookHippie 😂😂😂 4y
13 likes4 comments
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Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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#shakespearereadalong
Timons of Athens theme song challenge

As we wrap up our year of Shakespeare, we inspire ourselves with misanthropic (er...best fit) theme songs. You have till late Sunday to submit. Winner gets a small gift certificate to Bookshop.org

Morrissey will always be my favorite misanthrop, and almost all his songs work. My choice:

Heaven Knows I‘m Miserable Now by The Smiths
https://youtu.be/10z6-vQm23w
(Act 5 Sunday!)

Graywacke Current list
1. The Worst Day Since Yesterday by Flogging Molly @Riveted_Reader_Melissa
2. The Handler by Muse @Cuilin
3. Nobody Love Me (everybody hates me) @merelybookish
4. Seven Times 7 by Brand New @mollyrotondo
5. No Children by The Mountain Goats @LitStephanie
6. Heaven Knows I‘m Miserable Now by The Smiths @Graywacke
4y
See All 11 Comments
GingerAntics I‘m still working on this one. I have it narrowed down to two songs (by the same artist and on the same album no leas). Hopefully I‘ll have one by this weekend. 4y
TheBookHippie Bone Thugs & Harmony say my students .... Foe the love of money
Gotta make that money man
It's still the same now
Gotta make that money man
It's still the same now
Gotta make that money man
It's still the same now
Gotta make that money man
It's still the same now 🤪😅😂OY VEY yah... I‘ll post mine soon
4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie haha🤣🤣 ❤️ your students! 4y
TheBookHippie @Graywacke It is my fault I teach them to read Shakespeare like and to rap music, we've had great fun. 4y
batsy Oh no, you beat me to it! I had a Smiths song in mind 😅 But perfect choice. Can't go wrong with Morissey-misanthropy. 4y
MoonWitch94 Awww man! I agree with @batsy that you beat me to it 🤣 @TheBookHippie Your students rock! 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie to rap music ❤️ You‘re a great teacher! 4y
Graywacke @batsy @MoonWitch94 Morrissey must love Timon of Athens. 🙂 I‘m thinking our list (I‘m envisioning our nominations as something like a Christmas hangover list) has room for more Morrissey. So have at his library! 4y
37 likes11 comments
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LitStephanie
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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I thought with a few lyric tweaks, my favorite breakup song, “No Children“ by the Mountain Goats would be a fitting soundtrack to Timon's breakup with Athens. You can hear the song at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm-NW1RwPY8.
#Shakespearereadalong

Graywacke Sorry, as a Timon‘s breakup song makes this so much more funny. Suitable misanthropic pick! 🙂 4y
Graywacke The winner! 🎉 🙂 Congrats. Let me know how to send you a gift card. (If you‘re on Goodreads look up daniel chaikin, or if you‘re on LibraryThing look up dchaikin and you can send me a private message there.) 4y
LitStephanie @Graywacke thank you! And thanks for hosting this fun game. I will look you up on Goodreads tomorrow. 4y
9 likes3 comments
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mollyrotondo
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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So I was torn between two songs while thinking about Timon cursing Athens outside the walls of the city. I am going to pick “Seventy times 7” by Brand New for #shakespearereadalong challenge. The song is about how a friend betrayed the lead singer. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WnLJ1iYOZHM

mollyrotondo Lyrics like “Ignore the sun, the cover's over my head.
I wrote a message on my pillow that says, "Jesse, stay asleep in bed."
So don't apologize. I hope you choke and die.” So emo and so Timon.
4y
mollyrotondo My runner up reminds me a little of Flavius and Apemantus. “F*** You Aurora” by Alkaline Trio. It‘s about a relationship with a friend going sour and instead of blaming himself he‘s saying F*** You to the town he‘s from. Like Timon wanting time burn down Athens. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-asJi57AQck 4y
batsy Ha, the lyrics for the first one are perfect! So very Timon indeed 😆 4y
Graywacke @mollyrotondo both are very uplifting 😆 Thanks for playing. (Appreciating the lyrics in light if the last Timon/Apemantus conversation) 4y
LitStephanie HAHAHA: “I want to kill you like only a best friend could.“ This is perfect! Also, I am definitely downloading this song! 4y
37 likes5 comments
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merelybookish
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Timon, all alone, digging in the dirt made me think of the classic children's song "Nobody Loves Me."
?Nobody loves me
Everybody hates
Guess I'll go eat worms.
Big fat juicy ones
Little tiny squiggly ones.
Watch then wriggle and squirm?
(I guess that gives some indication of my feelings about Timon ?)
If you dare (and can handle an ear ?), here's a version of the song https://youtu.be/BR2hflMkGLg
#shakespearereadalong @Graywacke

Graywacke Looking at my breakfast differently now. 🙂 Thanks for playing! 4y
Lcsmcat That was the song my brain went to also! 4y
merelybookish @Graywacke Probably not the most appetizing start to the day. 🐛🐛🐛 4y
merelybookish @Lcsmcat Haha. Great minds! Guessing you aren't a fan of Timon either. (The character not the play.) 4y
Lcsmcat @merelybookish Not a fan of the character at all! He does not strike me as anyone I would like to know. 😀 4y
47 likes5 comments
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Cuilin
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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So after a day of listening to some dark melodies this is my pick for #shakespearereadalong challenge. When Timon leaves Athens and changes into a misanthropic angry recluse.

“Leave me alone
And my heart has become a cold and impassive machine
Leave me alone
I must disassociate from you”

The Handler - Muse

https://open.spotify.com/track/6xq3Bd7MvZVa7pda9tC4MW?si=ZrLQzUh-QqOLI2extHCE3w

Milara So relatable 😅 4y
Cuilin @Milara thanks. 4y
Graywacke Inspirational day? 😆 I love this song! Great entry. 👍 4y
See All 7 Comments
Cuilin @Graywacke it caused my daughter some concern, she said banging tunes Mom but God they‘re depressing, what‘s going on? 😂 (edited) 4y
Graywacke @Cuilin that‘s so funny 🤣 4y
LitStephanie The dramatic tone of this is great for Timon's attitude! 4y
Cuilin @LitStephanie right? It‘s manic too reflecting his total transformation from one of giving to let‘s burn the city. I must admit I love Muse. 4y
45 likes7 comments
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LitStephanie
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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"I to bear this, That never knew but better, is some burden. Thy nature did commence in sufferance; time Hath made thee hard in 't. Why shouldst thou hate men?" Gotta love Timon telling Apemantus that Timon has the right to suffer and complain because, having always been rich, it is just SO MUCH HARDER for him to be poor, wheras Apemantus is used to it. And there goes the last shred of sympathy I had for Timon. ? #shakespearereadalong

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Graywacke #Shakespearereadalong (hashtagging so i can find this later ☺️) 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Thank you, sorry about that. 4y
Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa bag pipes and guitars? Cool. This is new to me. Enjoying the album. 🙂 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke You are welcome! At least you found something new to listen to, so that‘s a plus. 4y
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review
Daisey
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Mehso-so

I went ahead and listened to the rest of this play this morning because I just wanted to be done with it. There were some fun scenes, but overall I just didn‘t care what happened.

I am happy to say that I have enjoyed a year of reading with the #ShakespeareReadalong group, and I‘m looking forward to continuing to add post-its to my edition of Shakespeare. #ArkAngelShakespeare

Graywacke Cheers to a good year of Shakespeare! 🥂 Glad you enjoyed this, even if maybe not Timon. 😆 (or maybe just not about Timon specifically.) Congrats on finishing. 4y
TheBookHippie 🤍👏🏼 4y
Daisey @Graywacke @TheBookHippie Thank you both! I‘ve thoroughly enjoyed reading more Shakespeare with everyone this year. 4y
TheBookHippie I love our group! 4y
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Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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A camaraderie of misanthropy? In between bouts of fantastic curses and insults, contradictions abound. Timon, broken, goes to live like a beast in the woods, and finds gold. Then spars with all visitors as he offers them gold. Alcibiades and thieves accept. Apemantus refuses. Flavius is confused. The promised Painter and Poet are no shows. What were you thoughts on this spite ... and spiteful philosophy? #shakespearereadalong Timon Act 4

Graywacke Is there interest in a challenge? I had an idea choosing theme music to help set the mood for Timon‘s misanthropy. Whoever wants to play will post their perfect (dreary?) song and include out tag. Maybe also a link to the song. And then I (😁) chose the best fit. Winner gets a small gift certificate to Bookshop.org. Interested?? 4y
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke Sounds fun, I‘m in... 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa I was kind of bummed, I wanted more... I have money again, but I‘ll be more wise with it. Those who wouldn‘t help or repay me, let them be left out when they ask for help, those that stood by me, I‘ll reciprocate. I wanted more a reversal of fortunes and who was rewarded or denied. Instead he just kind of continued on...🤷‍♀️ the thieves I guess were just more honest than his fake friends before 🙄 4y
Cuilin I‘m up for a challenge. I had an English teacher who would give us this as homework. I remember setting the score for Hamlet. 4y
mollyrotondo Okay yeah I‘m up for the challenge! 4y
Lcsmcat @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Right!?! No paying his debts or learning to live modestly for Timon. He has to pout and tantrum about how awful all men are. 4y
mollyrotondo I liked this act. Timon is one of those characters that does not take his newfound lesson and become a better person or wiser person. No. He instead becomes a recluse and vows to seek revenge on Athens. This makes for much more entertaining story in my opinion 😂. I also really love Flavius so much! His generosity is a very interesting contrast to Timon‘s generosity. His is appreciated and not taken for granted. Timon‘s is taken advantage of. 4y
Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Daisey @Lcsmcat who rolled your eyes when Flavius says of his love of Timon for “your unmatchéd mind”. ?? @mollyrotondo I liked it to. It‘s all so entertaining to me. ☺️ 4y
Cuilin Timon has two settings, either (for the season) Santa or Scrooge, nothing in between. The misogyny was abundant. Flavius is the one redeeming character. 4y
Lcsmcat @Graywacke Totally rolling my eyes through the whole act! 4y
LitStephanie Timon finds a stash of gold that could presumably repay his debts and allow him to live comfortably, but instead he chooses to continue to wallow in self pity and indulge in hatred. And he keeps giving gold away to everyone he sees. He seems like kind of a man child to me. 4y
LitStephanie I think there is only one philosopher in this scene, and I enjoyed getting some more Apemantus. It was also funny how, at the end if their exchange, the conversation devolves into two cranky men calling each other names. They aren't able to maintain a witty dialog for long. 4y
Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Lcsmcat @mollyrotondo @LitStephanie so Timon is broken, blames his (non) friends, hates, goes crazy, then finds gold. Should we expect him to right himself mentally? I mean is this perspective really in Timon‘s shoes, is Shakespeare forcing him to a role player, or is broken broken? Is he just poof 🤯...gone? (That icon looks painful in this context) 4y
Graywacke @LitStephanie this - broken Timon and Apemantus, is my favorite scene in play. How would they act this? Just hanging like the picture? Should we give them beers? Should they be laughing? Or should they be all emotional and angry? Or - what kind of nuance? Seems the actor might define the play here. ?? (edited) 4y
GingerAntics I found the one happy(ish) part of this act to be when Timon sent Flavius off with money to live a rich and happy life. Timon is clearly a very angry, hurt person outside of that. 4y
LitStephanie @Graywacke yes, exactly! I have found myself thinking several times that much would depend on how this is acted. They could be sharing a flask and occasionally chuckling, only getting really angry at each other in the end. Or Timon could be spitting mad and hateful the whole time. To me, Timon is too proud to allow anyone to comfort him, and yet, he still gives gold out like candy and wants Apemantus to tell everyone he has gold, ⏬ 4y
LitStephanie Which could be a cry for people to like him. If I want to be very generous to Timon, I would say he is a lonely man with no wife and no family who was desperate for admiration and real friendship, but he doesn't know how to get either, so he showers presents on people and tells himself their affection is real. Thus, he is devastated when he goes broke, and he doesn't have exceptional intelligence or other resources to fall back on. 4y
LitStephanie @GingerAntics yes, it was good of Timon, although he can't help himself from demanding that Flavius never give a dime for charity. 4y
Graywacke @LitStephanie i think that‘s a great analysis of Timon. 4y
GingerAntics @LitStephanie right? I think he was trying to protect the one faithful person left in his life. Clearly Timon is beyond jaded, but I think he genuinely cares about Flavius and doesn‘t want him ending up in his position (his position is very odd indeed). (edited) 4y
LitStephanie @GingerAntics for sure. Flavius wanted to stay with Timon, and Timon didn't want that for him. 4y
GingerAntics @LitStephanie that might be the one genuine connection in this book. 4y
TheBookHippie @mollyrotondo I am with you it‘s more true to life that way 🤪 4y
TheBookHippie @LitStephanie I agree with your description it reminds me of parents with money who don‘t have relationships with their kids and they keep throwing money at them 🤷🏽‍♀️ 4y
mollyrotondo @GingerAntics yes I think you are right. Flavius and Timon have the most genuine relationship. Flavius has become my new favorite character of this play. 4y
GingerAntics @mollyrotondo I was thinking that same thing after I made that connection. 4y
GingerAntics @LitStephanie @TheBookHippie that‘s such a good way to look at it. He just wants some love, after all. He had no clue how to get it, sadly. The rich parents just throwing money at their kids seems a very fitting comparison. 4y
batsy I enjoyed this act quite a bit! Some truly memorable lines, Timon's full on misanthropic tantrum, Apemantus being all "I love thee better now that e'er I did", and Flavius being outstanding as always. It seems like Timon has made that perennial mistake of mistaking flattery for true comradeship but it's interesting to me that he has the loyalty of his help, which indicates he might have some redeeming characteristics... 4y
mollyrotondo @batsy yes! His servants seem to have cared for him so he must have been an upstanding man. He just seems to be bad at managing his finances because he thought being generous to his acquaintances was the right thing to do. I so far have no reason to hate Timon. He seemed like a nice guy but just foolish. 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics @LitStephanie @mollyrotondo @batsy interesting comments on and responses to Flavius, the loyal servant, and above what it says of Timon. This play really puts a lot into the many different servants. Flavius stands out. I wonder about them and the mixing of their dependence and loyalty. Also Timon needs one good soul. 4y
Graywacke I noticed that there were no “friends” in this act who had borrowed money. Only Alcibiades, but he‘s a special case. No one was there to say, “hey, gold! You can pay me back now!” 4y
Graywacke @batsy glad you enjoyed and always appreciate your perspective. 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie maybe Timon wouldn‘t have made the best parent... 4y
Graywacke @Daisey @Lcsmcat @LitStephanie @GingerAntics @TheBookHippie @batsy @merelybookish Reminder: there is a challenge! Choose theme music to help set the mood for Timon‘s misanthropy, then post your perfect (dreary?) song and include our tag readalong tag. Maybe also a link to the song. I‘ll choose a winner Monday next week. Winner gets a small gift certificate to Bookshop.org. ( @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Cuilin @mollyrotondo have already joined in) (edited) 4y
Graywacke No rush on the challenge. I‘ll probably post my own Thursday (but I can‘t win) (edited) 4y
LitStephanie @Graywacke I am in! I will post in next couple of days. 4y
merelybookish I finished catching up last night but didn't have energy to comment. I find this...long. Like multiple speeches alll saying basically the same thing. (I felt the same about Act 3). Some of the speeches are quite good but still. But I appreciate @LitStephanie's read of Timon. He kind of reminds me of an incel. He's been rejected and so he goes extremist and hates without any considering his own failings or errors 4y
merelybookish Also, I do wonder what we are supposed to understand about the culture of Athens and how Timon is a product/representative of something rotten within the society. Timon rooting around in the dirt reminded me of a lot of the comedies where characters leave civilization for the forest where something can be transformed or regained or rediscovered. Although they always end up returning to the city. 4y
merelybookish And I am up for a challenge! 4y
LitStephanie @merelybookish I like your insightful comment about Timon representing something rotten in the society. There aren't a lot of good qualities to admire in any of the characters. The servants are the most loyal people and the ones who see through all the crap most clearly and don't exhibit any pretenses, which is interesting since they aren't formally educated like Timon and his group. 4y
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batsy
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Just another instance of Shakespeare capturing the spirit of 2020 with brevity.

#ShakespeareReadAlong

vivastory There's still 2 weeks left in the year. I'm just hoping it doesn't end with “Exit, pursued by a bear“ 4y
Currey I am in the middle of reading The Pale Fire by Nabokov and realized I need to read Timon of Athens. The moon stealing light from the sun and melting into the sea is a good way to end this bonkers year. 4y
batsy @vivastory 😂😂 If we can scrape by without that, it wouldn't have been *that* bad of a year! 4y
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batsy @Currey It's a bonkers year and a bonkers play but imagery like that and a lot of interesting lines makes it a particularly strange but enjoyable read, for me. So I guess that's kind of a recommendation 🙂 4y
Lindy 😂 4y
merelybookish He's always a finger on the pulse! 😂( Did you see the first person in the UK to get the new vaccine was named William Shakespeare?) 4y
merelybookish *got 👆 4y
LeahBergen 🤣🤣 Oh, no! 4y
GingerAntics He just gets right to it!!! 4y
BarbaraBB Lol 😆 4y
KVanRead That about sums it up😆 4y
batsy @merelybookish Yes, I did! When I saw that I thought it felt like something written by Shakespeare himself 😂 4y
GingerAntics @batsy Shakes did get shut down for the plague. Funny how none of the theatres opened up and cried “it‘s not fair to ME!” back then? We need to take a page out of their plague playbook. 😂 4y
Graywacke @vivastory this made me laugh. And @merelybookish that‘s kind of fascinating. Was he quoted? Is he just done writing plague poetry for the moment? 4y
Graywacke @batsy this post... 🙂😂 4y
Centique @vivastory 6 days late but I‘m chortling at your comment 😂😂 4y
Centique The slogan for 2020 😂 or we could paraphrase and use “out damned plague!” (Um or “out damned despot” might be even better) 😬 4y
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Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Inspired by Timon?

Don‘t neglect your misanthropy this holiday season. Timon of Athens Act 4 Sunday.
#Shakespearereadalong

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Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Timon of Athens Act 3 - #shakespearereadalong

Timon‘s closest, most indebted friends don‘t just refuse help, but do it in style, Lucius going all out Lindsey Graham. An observer: “But I perceive Men must learn now with pity to dispense, For policy sits above conscience.” Then come the creditors and Timon‘s last party. His blessing a curse, his serving hot rocks and water - and “henceforth hated be Of Timon man and all humanity.” Feeling any pity?

Cuilin Short answer, yes. (I‘m not finished reading I have one more scene) but should we call them friends?? They do sound like republicans. I also wonder what Gen Z would make of “this hits right” I‘m liking this play the more I read. 4y
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MoonWitch94 Not finished reading yet; will comment when ready! 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Yes...false friends all around, and some he literally bailed out. And although he seems dense at times, he was never cruel, he went out of his way to help many of them. 4y
mollyrotondo So I loved this whole Act! And the ending was just so perfect and wonderful and I really want to watch it! Just that perfect “screw you” moment. But I do not understand what happened with the Captain being banished. Can anyone explain what that was all about? 4y
Graywacke @Cuilin the modernizing if Shakespearian slang? 🙂 I don‘t think scene 6 will change your opinion. 4y
Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa a lesson?? : financial networking only works as long as you have $$... (i keep wondering what the fallout is for the Athenian economy. ☺️) 4y
Graywacke @mollyrotondo i can answer! But only thanks to notes i read. It‘s a non sequitur - but Alcibiades is arguing mercy for a murderer who fought under him. The senators have condemned the unnamed murderer to execution. 4y
Graywacke @mollyrotondo yeah, imagining the last scene could be fun on stage! Actually a lot of this play seems like good fun on stage. 4y
GingerAntics I feel bad that he has such terrible friends, but I also feel like Timon was a little clueless on the money front. It‘s kind of like he‘s a partying trust fund baby. Money goes everywhere and to everyone, but no one cares about the account balance. 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke @mollyrotondo so far, this has almost been a giant party in one way or another. It probably would be quite fun to see on stage. 4y
TheBookHippie 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 so good. I agree on stage this would be so good. So republican it‘s insane 🤯 I too wonder about GenZ I‘m liking it more now. I do wonder if it is denial or being obtuse 🤷🏽‍♀️ friends like the friends we have on government for sure😬 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics Maybe Timon suffers from affluenza? 🙂 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie need a psychological analysis if his “friends”, or maybe a creative analysis of their answers. My favorite is the one who was offended he wasn‘t asked first. Glad you‘re liking it more. I‘m enjoying all the language play. 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke 🤣😂🤣 oh I like that!!! I‘m not saying his downfall was his fault. He gave people he thought he could trust money in good faith and it seems every one of those loans turned out to be a big mistake. That‘s not on him, but all the bloody parties. Oi 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke @TheBookHippie that did seem like a really poor excuse. First some people ask “who else have you asked?” Then this guy comes up with “you should have asked me first, but since you didn‘t I‘m not paying you what I owe you.” 🙄 4y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics 🤷🏽‍♀️😂🤯 it‘s like Shakespearean gaslighting 😂😬 4y
TheBookHippie @Graywacke Word play is my favorite. 4y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie IT IS!!! Timon was totally getting gaslighted!!! 4y
batsy I did feel for him, actually, despite Timon himself being such an irritant in many ways. Shakespeare really went to town with the lines & excuses he put into the mouths of those false friends. Also, this seemed like an epic Act of servant power. Just the way the Third Servant clapped back at Sempronius! "The devil knew not what he did when he made man politic; he crossed himself by't"—hell yeah. 4y
batsy @mollyrotondo That Alcibiades scene came out of nowhere and initially I thought he was pleading Timon's case and I was like, "Timon did what now?" Thankfully I paused then and resumed reading a bit later and cleared my own mind ? 4y
mollyrotondo @batsy I thought the same thing! And then when they mentioned murder, I was like, no Timon didn‘t murder anyone right? So then I realized it was something completely different and did not understand how it was relevant to our story. This was the only part of the Act that I did not love. 4y
Graywacke @batsy “went to town” - he really seemed to have fun here. (Not sold in the gaslighting 🙂 @TheBookHippie @GingerAntics ... more like transparent bs statements to save a little face) 4y
Graywacke @batsy servant power. 🙂 I was more impressed when I initially read it through. But on rereading noticed their best lines came after the false friend exited. But still, terrific lines and overall an interesting collection of perspectives on these servants. 4y
Graywacke @mollyrotondo @batsy I thought the Alcibiades bit was saved a little because the lines of argument were so good. It was interesting. I suspect this was all for one famous Timon line later on...but I haven‘t read ahead. Will see... 4y
batsy @Graywacke @mollyrotondo I thought there were some very good lines there, too. Just found the introduction of that subplot a little jarring. 4y
jewright I‘m enjoying the play. The party made me laugh. The Alcibiades part was a bit confusing. I‘m glad we‘re reading this one together. 4y
Graywacke @jewright me too 🙂 Glad you see the humor. (And, as @batsy notes, a little jarring Alcibiades drama @mollyrotondo ) 4y
LitStephanie @batsy @mollyrotondo the scene with Alcibiades was weird. As this play was never finished, I wonder if there was supposed to be more on that, or if he would have ended up changing that scene. 4y
Gezemice Sorry about not participating, I am having a bit of a block on reading and this one seemed too hard for me. Please keep me on the list though! 4y
LitStephanie Although I am late to the party, I loved this act. Timon's flatterers (not friends) are such a-holes. The lack of subtlety in their hypocritical and greedy behavior is so funny! And although I feel a little sad for Timon, his peevishness and dramatic little freakout with the fake feast were also very funny. 4y
Graywacke @LitStephanie ( @batsy @mollyrotondo ) it‘s seems to me like a very high end “unfinished” play. I wonder if it truly was just left on paper for future possibilities. (I also wonder of the Senate was any kind of issue in monarchy England) Glad you‘re enjoying @LitStephanie !! 🙂 4y
Graywacke @Gezemice no worries. Next one 👍 (should be Henry Vi part 1) 4y
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review
GingerAntics
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Mehso-so

The moral of the story is that being rich will kill you. I didn‘t find anything of the characters to be particularly sympathetic. I feel for Timon a little bit because he was taken advantage of, but he was throwing money around with no care for the fact he had his own creditors and needed money to survive. 👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻

GingerAntics He comes off as the trust fund baby who partied all of his money away. I can‘t help thinking “great, now he can see how the rest of Athens lives.” 👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻 4y
GingerAntics This works as a tragedy, but it also works as a morality play; however, as most people will never have enough money to throw around like that, it‘s not a very good morality play. #Shakespeare #TimonOfAthens #shakespearereadalong 4y
batsy "Trust fund baby who partied all his money away"—haha! I keep wondering where his money came from but this is probably Shakespeare's take on the ancient version of a trust fund baby ? 4y
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GingerAntics @batsy he clearly had no appreciation for his money. He just threw it around, which made me think that he probably didn‘t put in a lot of work to get it. He just sort of magically dies at the end, though? That almost felt way too convenient, honestly. 4y
Graywacke A Trust Fund baby! 😂 Kudos on finishing early. 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke it just sort of sucks you in and you have to keep going. 4y
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review
Riveted_Reader_Melissa
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Panpan

I‘m a bit bummed about this one...hoping my #ShakespeareGroupRead can help me gain more meaning by the time we finish the final discussion for this one later this month... it felt like a fable to me, a morality play, but like they missed something in the ending, like it wasn‘t completely wrapped up correctly. 🤷‍♀️

GingerAntics It has the feel for me, too. I‘m just not getting into it like I‘d hoped. I honestly think Timon is just being used by his so called friends and is a bit of an idiot. 4y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics Is he obtuse?! Or not steeped in reality ?! I‘m trying to reread it today. 4y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I‘m having a hard time getting my head around Timon. He certain comes off as completely out of touch with reality. Obtuse or not still feels up in the air for me, but I‘m leaning toward yes. 4y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics this is why I‘m reading it over again I‘m trying to grasp his character 🤪 4y
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LitStephanie
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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#cardswap
Thank you @Jadams1776 for brightening my day with the very first 2020 December holiday card I have received! I have gathered my various boxes of cards and will be sending out in the next week. Timon tagged for no reason other than I was reading it when I received the card. 😀

Jadams89 😊 4y
LitStephanie P.s. @Jadams1776 I love snowshoeing so glad I ended up with this one. 4y
Jadams89 Yay! I‘m glad that worked out! 4y
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LitStephanie
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Act 2. I was really disappointed we never got to hear the Fool finish his riddle: "they enter my mistress' house merrily and go away sadly." Also, how is Timon so stupid and careless about money? As others commented last act, I wish we knew how he got rich.

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Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Timon of Athens
Act II - Nov 29
#Shakespearereadalong

Creditors call and Flavius is finally able to let Timon in on his ruined finances. No funds, no lands to sell, and no senators to borrow from. But he says, “I am wealthy in my friends!” Flavius is not so sure.

A short act that hopefully we could all squeeze in during this unusually isolated American holiday. Thoughts?

Lcsmcat I just keep shaking my head and thinking “Can he really be that dense?” 4y
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Lcsmcat I kept thinking he must have been deep in denial a long LONG time. 4y
LitStephanie I will comment later as not quite done with the act, but I love the picture! Ha! 4y
GingerAntics I‘m not so sure he‘s wealthy in friends. I can honestly say, from experience, you hit rock bottom financially and friends make themselves scarce. As a side note, I thought my student loans made MY credit score bad, but seeing Timon‘s has made me feel a bit better. 🤣😂🤣 4y
mollyrotondo Timon is a guy who would stress me out to have as a close friend. I give Flavius props for sticking by Timon this long and not smacking him awake to this dire situation. And Timon has way too much faith in his friends. I really like how he is being ganged up on by three moneylenders‘ lackies. 4y
Cuilin Timon is about to witness how fair weathered his ‘friends‘ are. Seriously though why did he have no clue what situation he was in? He‘s giving gems away the night before bankruptcy?? Something‘s not quite right with Timon. 4y
merelybookish Talk about some rose colored glasses! Which is impressive since, if I understand correctly, Timon borrowed money from usurers. I didn't get most of the jokes in scene 1 but I couldn't miss how willfully dense Timon was in scene 2. 4y
Graywacke @Lcsmcat @Riveted_Reader_Melissa oh, i know! But not sure this play works if Timon has, you know, a working 🧠, or any sense of responsibility. Wonder if his apparent stupidity undermines what he does later on. 4y
Graywacke @LitStephanie 🙂 @GingerAntics glad I could help 😁😬. Student loans suck. 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics @mollyrotondo @Cuilin In Timon‘s defense, he didn‘t have the advantage of the wisdom of Styx! ☺️(“I've got dozens of friends, and the fun never ends, That is as long as I'm buying” - from Too Much Time on My Hands.) And yes, I think he has a dark lesson in friendship realities coming. And sorry, @GingerAntics about your crummy old friends. 😐 4y
mollyrotondo @Graywacke Styx seem wiser than Timon for sure lol. Do we know how old Timon is? 4y
Graywacke @merelybookish influential and sharp usurers! Maybe he‘s waiting on Trump‘s buddies to bail him out. Worked for some... 😡 4y
Graywacke @mollyrotondo Flavius is the most interesting character, I think, so far. He‘s loyal and honest and sincere...now. Where was his honesty when Timon needed it? Could he not get a word of warning in? Was he a afraid to? Is Timon that impossible or that removed from his reality? Anyway, he seems to be our realist. I like him too. (I also liked when Apemantus compliments the fool, saying roughly - that‘s my kinda line) 4y
Graywacke @mollyrotondo 🙂 (except Tommy Shaw, maybe...). I Timon comes without history. No origin, family or past or age, just some generic clueless wealthy guy condensed from the mist. 4y
mollyrotondo @Graywacke yes Flavius is my second favorite next to Apemantus. Flavius is trying to bring Timon back down to reality and it seems like he‘s been trying for a long while. I wonder if Flavius just doesn‘t have a strong enough voice or, like you said, does Timon have his head too far up in the clouds to take Flavius seriously. 4y
mollyrotondo @Graywacke okay so I didn‘t miss his age somewhere lol. If he‘s young and naive, his frivolousness would make total sense without needing much more backstory. If he‘s older then I wonder how he‘s gone so long not realizing his friends are users lol 4y
Lcsmcat @mollyrotondo Agree - he would be an exhausting and stressful friend! 4y
Lcsmcat @Graywacke It will be interesting to see what stupid thing Timon does next! And I think Flavious did try earlier. I get the impression that Timon didn‘t listen to Flavious because he was no fun. T didn‘t want that downer vibe around him. 4y
LitStephanie I can't imagine Timon has had his wealth long. I wish we had an origin story, but this play was unfinished so maybe WS would have put it in later. It's like he never even had the equivalent of a home-ec class. 4y
LitStephanie @Lcsmcat and @mollyrotondo I do think Flavius tried. He said, "I did endure not seldom nor no slight checks when I have prompted you in the ebb of your estate." At the end of the day, he is a servant who serves at Timon's pleasure. 4y
Lcsmcat @LitStephanie And therefore could not make T understand the true state of his affairs. F is in a thankless position! 4y
jewright I think Flavious has tried to warn Timon. It‘s like when your parents warn you about certain things, but sometimes you have to learn the hard way. You hear the words, but you don‘t believe them until reality slaps you around a little. The part about friends makes me sad. He really does believe he has good friends. I‘m thankful for some friends that have been with me through a lot. (edited) 4y
jewright I can‘t imagine Timon earned his money. I have trouble believing someone who earned it through hard work would be so careless. I‘m guessing he grew up wealthy. Usually people who grow up with money and don‘t have to earn it are the typical ones who think there‘s no end to money. Someone sign him up for a Dave Ramsey class! 4y
Graywacke @mollyrotondo @Lcsmcat @LitStephanie @jewright I wonder about the world around T. Clearly he feels most comfortable not worrying about money, but a lot about relationships. But he buys them. He‘s all show. Someone must be watching, so to speak. It makes me think of those high life family who go broke - it‘s literally a weird South Florida thing (which is a weird place). Anyway, I wonder about how universal this is and what the bard experienced. 4y
Graywacke Maybe F was just part of what was too underneath T. He wouldn‘t lower himself to deal with the clerk‘s job. 4y
Lcsmcat @Graywacke That‘s a good point about someone watching. I wonder if we‘ll discover who his audience is? 4y
TheBookHippie @jewright 🤣🤣Dave Ramsey 4y
TheBookHippie If you grow up with money you look at it all so differently. I find a lot of rich people buy people and most poor people give the most without thought historically .. it‘s all messy. T must be surrounded by monied people ? It‘s like he is both those things. Also T seems naive F is trying to wake him up to reality and failing ... fun how we can relate this even to today‘s news! 4y
TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat Ha. Can he really be that dense gets said a lot right now in the real world 🤣😩🤷🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️ 4y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics student loans 😩😩😩😩 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke yeah, I‘m rather dreading the rest of the play. Reality is not going to be fun for Timon, I fear. 4y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie those things are a hot mess, I can tell you that. I‘m not even sure my degree (either one) was worth any of it. Maybe I should have just found an independently wealthy friend. 🤣😂🤣 4y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics my daughter feels the same way. 4y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I‘m an over educated millennial that can‘t honestly say I would tell my children to go to college. I‘m glad I‘m not the only one that feels like college was over sold and underwhelming. 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie ( @Lcsmcat ) “...gets said a lot right now...” oye ... 🙂 4y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I told her to get a degree in something she loves so she‘ll have a bachelors degree to get paid more than the person who doesn‘t but at least you‘ll study what you love. Worked out it‘s just idiotic this is how it works. You should study what you love. That is the benefit. Unless of course obvious doctor nurse etc .. like everything else college degrees have nothing to do with actual field of work for most 4y
Graywacke @GingerAntics @TheBookHippie sorry about all these student loan problems. I hope my kids don‘t end up with that feeling. I really enjoyed my college years. 4y
TheBookHippie @Graywacke The uneducated astound me .. 4y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I‘m certainly noticing that. I have a BA and MA in history, but I‘ve yet to find a job in my field. Everything else is mildly related if you think creatively. 🤣😂🤣 Would love a full time job, though. A “real” job as it were. 4y
GingerAntics @Graywacke my undergrad years were confusing and odd, but my grad school years were a blast. It‘s just crazy expensive. If I got out of a product what I‘ve gotten out of my education, I‘d be able to return the product for a full refund. I just feel like we over sell college. 4y
TheBookHippie @Graywacke I loved college but I went on a pell grant for nursing. It‘s so much money it‘s criminal. My daughter has an art degree. She graduated college 8 years ago. (edited) 4y
batsy I was thinking the same about Timon. Can be that dense/ignorant about the state of his finances and how did he get to this point? I know Shakespeare isn't about back stories and this play is kind of an allegory, but I'm still curious to see if we find out. I did enjoy the bits involving Apemantus and the Fool. 4y
Graywacke @batsy I‘ve been wondering about that comment in the introduction, about this being an allegory. Simple so far, with lots of clever talk padded in. 4y
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LitStephanie
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Act 1: Ventidius's father died and left him rich, so he tries to pay back the talents ($10,000 worth approximately, no mean sum) Timon paid to get him out of debtor's prison, and Timon refuses to take it. This seems ridiculous and almost seems like Timon is grandstanding and trying to show off how rich and generous he is. If I were V, I would feel patronized and like he wanted me in his debt.
#shakespearereadalong

batsy That's exactly what it felt like, in a way. Well put! (Especially since as Flavius reveals that Timon himself doesn't have so much wealth that he can afford to be this way...) 4y
LitStephanie @batsy, poor Flavius! It is nice that Timon isn't spending money he doesn't have on gambling or some other vice, but at the end of the day, it is still just irresponsible. 4y
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Daisey
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Another Sunday means another act of Shakespeare. I listened to Act I of Timon of Athens, but I think I‘m going to need to read the discussion and listen again to catch more details.

#ShakespeareReadalong #ArkAngelShakespeare

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batsy
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Just wanted to take a moment to appreciate how the characters are listed in this Signet edition. #FalseFriendsAndFlatteringLords

#ShakespeareReadAlong @Graywacke

TrishB I could do that with committee membership lists. Might make them more fun! 4y
batsy @TrishB 😂 Perfect! 4y
TheBookHippie I just love it so 4y
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BiblioLitten 😁 4y
britt_brooke 😂 4y
LitStephanie @TrishB LOL! This play was published from WS's unfinished manduscript, and those descriptions were his. Interesting how some don't even have names, like Merchant and Jeweler, kind of like a medieval morality play. 4y
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Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Timon of Athens - Act 1 (early post*)

Amazon dances! Living the high life - but with empty coffers. (I might call it Florida style). Lots of quick clever lines that can get overlooked, especially from our poet and Apemantus. Double meanings everywhere. This play is considered unpolished and was maybe not finalized or performed by the Bard. Are you into it?

*Discussion is Sunday. Posting now because I may be without internet then.

Graywacke Sorry for this early post. Road-trip to the middle of nowhere this weekend and just not sure what my connection will be. I plan to send a reminder on Sunday, but just in case I‘m offline, don‘t wait for me!! 4y
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batsy The guy in the middle of that second pic is my buddy Rod Beilfuss! That's from a production in 2017, while he was at Stratford, Ontario. He's currently the artistic director of Shakespeare in the Ruins in Manitoba. (Sorry for the aside, I was excited to see this 😁) 4y
Graywacke @batsy wow. How cool! 4y
MoonWitch94 It‘s definitely BUSY 🤪 I‘m tugging my way through it lol 4y
Graywacke @MoonWitch94 a whole lot of banter. 😳 🙂 4y
Lcsmcat @batsy That‘s amazing! 4y
merelybookish I was reminded of Job reading this act, the guy who has and then presumably then loses it all. I went in blind. I figured there was probably truth to Apemantus's criticisms but wasn't sure I liked him much either. Timon also reminded me of Titus. I guess I don't have a very good sense of Timon and his motivations. 4y
merelybookish @batsy That's very cool! (Also, great name for a troupe based in Manitoba. 😀) 4y
TheBookHippie @merelybookish I‘m thinking of the parable of the talents 🤪🤷🏽‍♀️ apparently we are biblically thinking this month! Job makes sense ! (edited) 4y
TheBookHippie @batsy HOW FUN!!! 4y
mollyrotondo For now I will say that I really love Apemantus! At first I was like, “what is up his butt?”, but by scene two I was on Team Apemantus. Loving this play so far. @batsy is this production that your friend was in available to stream? 4y
batsy @Lcsmcat @merelybookish @TheBookHippie It is! He's such a Shakespeare devotee :) @mollyrotondo As far as I know, not in its entirety. Just clips. 4y
mollyrotondo @batsy okay. Thank you! 4y
Graywacke Happy Sunday. Let this re-tagging of our names serve as a kind of official start - Timon Act 1. Enter Apemantus... 🙂 4y
Graywacke @merelybookish interesting because i was thinking of Job too - the random control of his wealth got me. There is no explanation of why he was wealthy not why he‘s run out of funds. Very divine-intervention-ish. 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie i don‘t remember this parable. Need to look it up. 4y
Graywacke @mollyrotondo yay! Agree about Apemantus. He makes for fun Shakespeare. 4y
Cuilin Not sure how I feel about this play (I‘m going in blind). It‘s definitely the calm before the storm and we‘ll soon be saying oh how the mighty have fallen. 4y
Cuilin Oh I‘m reading Oxford World Classic edition and there‘s no acts just scenes. So I just read two scenes. Maybe not enough. Anyone else? @Graywacke @merelybookish (edited) 4y
Lcsmcat @Graywacke The lack of “back story” on Timon‘s wealth bothered me too. Although his carelessness of it made me assume it was inherited. But so far Apemantus is the only character I feel a connection with other than the Poet. 4y
Liz_M At first Apemantus was the only character I understood. I got that the poet, painter, etc. were talking in an exaggerated manor but there were a lot of footnotes that needed to be read to make sense of it. (edited) 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @batsy That‘s awesome! 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @merelybookish And I was thinking about the Soothsayer in Julius Caesar...so I guess we all see a tragedy coming. 4y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Although the dancing Amazons showing up made me think of a musical, so a tragedy musical. 😂 4y
batsy @Lcsmcat Same here. And at the moment Apemantus is the only one I trust. And Flavius. I guess that's who the audience is meant to trust, even though Apemantus is meant to be unlikeable (though as a reader, I'm enjoying that...) Like @mollyrotondo @Graywacke say, he makes it fun. 4y
merelybookish @TheBookHippie @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I guess to get our bearings as readers we end up comparing it to other things we've read, especially with a text none of us are familiar with. Something Biblical or tragic. 4y
merelybookish @Cuilin I only read 2 scenes as well! 4y
merelybookish @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Haha. The dancing Amazon's must be the best part of staging this play! Although it is such a vivid, odd image they must be to indicate how decadent and out of proportion Timon's household is. 4y
Cuilin @merelybookish mine only has one act with 17 scenes!! Not sure how many to read for next week! 🤷‍♀️🤔 4y
TheBookHippie @Graywacke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_talents_or_minas I think just the talents and giving them away 🤣🤪 the brain is wild. 4y
merelybookish @Cuilin Yeah, that's confusing. Perhaps a testament to the play's uncertain history. I just checked and it looks like 3 scenes in Act 2. I'm on a kindle so harder to check ahead. Maybe someone with a hard copy can break down how many scenes/act there are. 4y
Cuilin Thank you @merelybookish 👍 4y
Graywacke @Cuilin here is a good reference. Act 2 is your scenes 3 & 4. http://shakespeare.mit.edu/timon/ 4y
Graywacke @Cuilin i‘m intended to go in blind too, but the Signet intro gives an act by act summary. Oops. (It‘s in attempt to argue the play is in pretty good shape structurally.) 4y
Graywacke @Lcsmcat i think it‘s a good thing we don‘t feel an affinity for many of these characters! 🙂 Apemantus is our Cassandra, the one who sees the truth. The poet is fun to spend time with and wonder at his meaning (even if he‘s undermined as another flatterer) 4y
Graywacke @Liz_M oh, totally understand. The poet was weird for me at first because he wasn‘t making any sense and i was struggling to decipher. But really fun when i read the act a second time. He made more sense once I wasn‘t dwelling in the what‘s-going-on-here aspect. Clever flatterer. Also it‘s funny he can‘t just talk like a normal person. 4y
Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa ah, the Amazons. We all need a ball with dancing Amazons. A comment on tragedy - relates to @Cuilin too - I‘m not sure we readers like Timon enough for this to be tragic. 🤷🏻‍♂️ (edited) 4y
Graywacke @batsy agree, we can trust Apemantus‘s brutal commentary and Flavius‘s integrity. But maybe we don‘t like anyone else... (edited) 4y
Graywacke @merelybookish @TheBookHippie @Riveted_Reader_Melissa 1st - thanks for the links. I remember the parable now! Seems Timon would make a very bad disciple (that‘ll get worse!). And second, I like the comment on how we compare naturally to “get our bearings”. 4y
TheBookHippie @Graywacke I agree I think I‘ll like this Shakespeare. Plus I think it‘s good for our brains to work it out and settle in! 4y
jewright Timon seems like a nice guy. He‘s helping his friends out for good reasons. He helps a couple marry for true love! There‘s just a sense of foreboding...what‘s going to go wrong? Then the dancing Amazons. That was so random! Kind of reminded me of the dancing fairies from A Midsummer Night‘s Dream. I like it so far. 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie yes and I like how you put that. This really feels like one to “work out and settle in”. 4y
Graywacke @jewright I‘m glad Timon has a fan! 😆 Glad you like and I love the idea of dancing Amazons. Definitely something lacking in contemporary society. 🙂 4y
LitStephanie @mollyrotondo I love Apemantus, too! He kind of reminds me of Jaques in As You Like It. 4y
LitStephanie @Graywacke on double meanings, I like when Alcibiades says, "So they were bleeding new, my lord, there's no meat like 'em. I could wish my best friend at such a feast." Say what?! Don't let that guy call you best friend! 4y
Graywacke @LitStephanie it‘s a great line, in a twisted up way. Alcibiades as a historical mess of character adds some extra meaning to it. 4y
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Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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“Our own precedent passions do instruct us what levity‘s in youth.”

I‘ve cracked it open and I‘m already rereading act I, trying to catch all these lines tossed out here as the play rapidly runs by. (Also I was won over by the poet on rereading)

batsy I've only just begun but it's off to an interesting start! I love that the painter, merchant, and jeweler have short lines and the poet waffles on... 😁 4y
Graywacke @batsy he can only talk poet. 🙂 4y
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Graywacke
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Timon of Athens
#shakespearereadalong
Act I - Nov 22
Act II - Nov 29
Act III - Dec 6
Act IV - Dec 13
Act V - Dec 20

Pictured: Timon as cast in the latest RSC performance. Who is he? She? See the Peloponnesian War and the conflicted life of Athenian Alcibiades (Wikipedia hole dive?) Or keep an open mind and think about what friendships you can buy (💰) as our Bard did.

Note: because of travel, I‘ll pre-post Friday Nov 20 and re-prompt Nov 22.

Graywacke Fyi - note 1: I may not have internet Nov 22 !! So that‘s why I‘ll pre-post Nov 20 (and cross my fingers). 4y
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Graywacke Fyi - note 2: Signet peeps will have a copy already. It‘s the 2nd play in our Titus copy. 4y
TheBookHippie I‘m ready! 4y
MoonWitch94 I‘ve never read this one. Exciting! 💗 4y
TheBookHippie I‘m ready!!!! I‘ve fallen behind but I‘m catching up now with my Shakespeare ! 4y
batsy This will be interesting! Haven't read it before 🙂 4y
mollyrotondo @Graywacke yes I have this Signet copy! Excellent! 4y
Lcsmcat I‘m in! 4y
Graywacke @TheBookHippie @TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat @mollyrotondo 👍 we have a crowd. @MoonWitch94 @batsy It will be new to me too. But I‘m guessing not many of us have read this one before. Falls into the more obscure plays. 4y
TheBookHippie I‘ve not read it either! 4y
GingerAntics I haven‘t read this one either. I think is another one of those plays that doesn‘t get read/performed often. 4y
MoonWitch94 Oh great find 😍 4y
GingerAntics Oooooh a love a good fun facts video!!! 4y
Cuilin I‘ve been neglecting my Shakespeare so I‘m looking forward to this. New one for me. 4y
Graywacke @MoonWitch94 right! @GingerAntics i know, me too. ☺️ @Cuilin yay! (On looking forward, not on neglecting 😆) It will be new for most of us. 4y
batsy @Graywacke Thanks for sharing the link! 4y
Graywacke @Gezemice sorry, didn‘t have you on my list. Fixing. 4y
Gezemice @Graywacke Thanks! 4y
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AprilMae
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Playing Bards Dispense Profanity with friends.... this may be my favorite card so far 😂😂😂

Texreader 🤣🤣🤣 5y
Blueberry LOL 5y
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Lindy
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Waiting for the play to start, earlier today. Bard on the Beach staged Timon almost entirely with women actors. I loved it!

saresmoore So fun! I see some Shakespeare-inspired mittens in your future. 😆 6y
Lindy @saresmoore hmmm. Now you‘ve got me thinking. 🤔 6y
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Lindy
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Pickpick

I wasn‘t familiar with this play and I‘m going to see it at Bard on the Beach in Vancouver at the end of July, so I listened to this full cast #audiobook. I wasn‘t expecting much—there must be a reason that it isn‘t often performed—but I quite liked it. The themes of greed and disillusionment spoke to me. In the Vancouver production, it will be set in contemporary times with women playing most of the roles, including Timon.

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Blueberry
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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merelybookish
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Stacks of Shakespeares at the local used bookstore. Nary a #TimonofAthens amid them. 🤷
#seductiveshakespeare @jenniferw88

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Lcsmcat
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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I haven't read or seen this one yet, but I like this quote. #timonifathens #seductiveShakespeare @jenniferw88

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GinEyre22
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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#seductiveshakespeare Day 10: Timon of Athens

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Eugeniavb
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Mehso-so

Not so sure about this one. Its a cautionary tale about trusting others which is interesting but I think the fact that Shakespeare didn't finish it comes through. There's something lacking. But I did rush through it too because I have a lot to read now, so that might have dampened it a bit for me too.

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Eugeniavb
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Eugeniavb
Timon of Athens | William Shakespeare
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Poet: "Good day, sir."
Painter: "I am glad you're well."
Poet: "I have not seen you long: how goes the world?"
Painter: "It wears, sir, as it grows."

#firstlines #shakespearechallenge

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