theredheadedleague

The Boscombe Valley Mystery | Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes
@Cuilin
#TheRedHeadedLeague
#Discussion

What did y'all think? 🤩

erzascarletbookgasm, CogsOfEncouragement, AnneCecilie, Aimeesue, Larkken, Librarybelle, mom2bugnbee, Read4life, StayCurious, CatLass007, Mollyanna, curiouserandcurioser, eeclayton, dabbe, IndoorDame, kelli7990, TheAromaofBooks, 5feet.of.fury, Tineke, Blackink_WhitePaper, Pageturner1, PageShifter, AllDebooks, AnnR, kimrenee, aroyse, CrystalE02, SpellboundReader

Librarybelle I again had my suspicions about the conclusion, which I normally cannot figure out the guilty party until the reveal. I thought Conan Doyle is really getting into the storytelling groove - as we progress, the stories are a bit more polished, a bit easier to read. Or, maybe I am just getting used to Conan Doyle‘s writing style at this point. 9mo

CatLass007 I think I‘m enjoying the short stories more than the novels. But that could be because Conan Doyle is hitting his stride with the character. 9mo

IndoorDame I actually knew who the villain would be this time which never happens! though I totally didn‘t work out the details of why ahead of time. Not sure if that means I‘ve read this one before and don‘t remember it, or if the setup is just a bit obvious 🤔 I‘m leaning towards the latter. 9mo

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dabbe @Librarybelle I think you hit the combo and that both apply because I also feel the same way! These Victorian writers can be long-winded, can't they? 🤩😂😃 9mo

dabbe @CatLass007 It'll be interesting when we read the other two novels down the road if he polishes them up better than his first two. 9mo

dabbe @IndoorDame There definitely was something “off“ with the elder McCarthy character. Who argues with their son when they just come home? I definitely smelled a red herring over that! 🤩😃😂 9mo

CatLass007 It will be very interesting. 9mo

kelli7990 I like the short stories better than the novels. 9mo

dabbe @kelli7990 #metoo 😃 9mo

CogsOfEncouragement I was amused when Mary says W is always interested in SH's cases & he replies: I should be ungrateful if I were not, seeing what I gained thru one of them. 😍 At the scene, W says SH gathered up what seemed to be dust. I thought this was ash SH would identify from cigar, etc & was happy to see I was right. Ballarat was a clever word to have Turner misunderstand. The culprit is - “Mr. John Turner,“ cried the hotel waiter... was very funny to me. 9mo

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement That was a cute thing W said to Mary! And good thing Holmes is a virtuoso when it comes to tobacco ash! 😂 9mo

SpellboundReader Just a general comment that I think this is my fav story so far. Perhaps Doyle has hit his writing stride or maybe my impatient mind just likes the short stories better. 9mo

dabbe @BeeCurious There are quite a few gems in the Adventures! 🤩 9mo

42 likes13 comments

dabbe

The Boscombe Valley Mystery | Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes
@Cuilin
#TheRedHeadedLeague
#Discussion

What did y'all think? 🤩

Librarybelle Anyone who reads British mysteries or has watched Midsomer Murders knows how dangerous the countryside can be! 😂 It‘s almost deceiving how the peaceful countryside can be deadly and hold secrets. 9mo

CatLass007 People are people no matter where they live. I‘ve lived in urban, suburban, and rural areas and I‘ve discovered that kind, friendly people live in New York and that rude, inconsiderate people live in East Tennessee. 9mo

IndoorDame I didn‘t really think about it until you asked, but the setup of the adjoining estate and farm is the perfect example of appearance obfuscating reality. It‘s not until the very end that you can pick apart what‘s really going on there. 9mo

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dabbe @Librarybelle Especially because one is so isolated! You can yell your head off in the country if someone is attacking you, but no one will probably hear you! Yet in the city people might hear but do nothing because it's not their business. 9mo

dabbe @CatLass007 Very true. I wonder where a killer would rather kill--the country or city? 🤔 9mo

dabbe @IndoorDame Right? People “assumed“ Turner and McCarthy were friends based on their association in Australia, yet nothing could be further from the truth. 9mo

Read4life I enjoyed their story outside of London. I think the different locale added to the more polished feel of this one. 9mo

dabbe @Read4life It makes it more of a real quest, doesn't it? And with the train racing to their destination, it adds to the suspense. 9mo

kelli7990 I liked that this story was set in Australia. 9mo

CogsOfEncouragement I don't think there is a fundamental difference in the morals of city people and country people. Human nature is human nature. Evil can be found anywhere. 9mo

dabbe @kelli7990 We've now had the western US, India, and Australia! 🤩 9mo

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement I agree. I do think the country setting could be scarier and lonelier perhaps, but people are people wherever they are. 9mo

39 likes12 comments

dabbe

The Boscombe Valley Mystery | Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes
@Cuilin
#TheRedHeadedLeague
#Discussion

What did y'all think? 🤩

Librarybelle I was a little surprised over Holmes‘ response to the confession. I had not thought of this response in conjunction with his response to Identity…I must not be a very detailed reader! But, this response seems almost more sympathetic than his response in Identity. I didn‘t get the full patronizing feel from this one like I did with the Identity conclusion. 9mo

CatLass007 I guess it means Holmes has a philosophy of “Let the punishment fit the crime.” I also think it means that Holmes isn‘t a completely cold-hearted bastard. 9mo

IndoorDame I definitely saw a similarity in the “protecting the delicate sensibilities of women” sense. I also see that Holmes clearly thinks he‘s more fit than the justice system to judge people and dispense sentences 😂. I wondered in this one though… the happily ever aspect is sweet, but will the courts really just drop such a public case because James was acquitted or will someone else pay for what Turner did? And does Holmes care about that? 9mo

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dabbe @Librarybelle @CatLass007 @IndoorDame ... I guess when you're the world's only private consulting detective, you can pass judgment however you'd like. Watson never tells us, though, why the police didn't keep looking for a murderer after acquitting McCarthy. This one didn't have the resolution sewed up so tightly as the others. And wouldn't McCarthy want to also know who killed his father? Even if he was a jerk? 9mo

Read4life @dabbe And not just McCarthy wanting to know who killed his father. Wouldn‘t others in the area want to know if a killer walks amongst them? 9mo

dabbe @Read4life You'd think that, wouldn't you? It's also hard for me to believe that Lestrade would just let McCarthy go without having someone (usually the wrong person when the police are involved) to take his place in jail. Doesn't somebody have to pay? 9mo

kelli7990 I didn‘t notice any similarities but maybe it‘s because I‘m not a detailed reader. 9mo

CogsOfEncouragement I took it that Holmes agreed that McCarthy got what he deserved. He wasn't concerned with some sort of justice for him. When Holmes says it is interesting that McCarthy had the Hatherley Farm rent free, I think Holmes suspected there to be a reason other than a gesture of friendship - such as blackmail. When he hears McCarthy wanted the marriage of the children and Turner didn't, he asks - Do you not deduce something from that? 9mo

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement There are quite a few stories where Holmes does not feel beholden to necessarily tell the police anything. And since Turner was dying anyway, Holmes thinks he's been punished enough. 9mo

CogsOfEncouragement @dabbe I'll keep that in mind as we read on. In A Case of Identity there were a number of reasons SH doesn't tell Mary, or try to help get the stepfather prosecuted for something that would be considered against the law at the time. In this one there is more than just Turner dying soon. For example, McCarthy was no innocent, Turner's daughter is innocent and loves her father, and young McCarthy does not take after his father. 9mo

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement Young McCarthy's no innocent either, having married a barmaid that he didn't love. I think Holmes even describes him as not being the brightest bulb. Still, like you said, he's nowhere near as bad as his father, and he does love Alice. The two young ones shouldn't have to pay the price for their fathers' mistakes. 9mo

36 likes11 comments

dabbe

The Boscombe Valley Mystery | Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes
@Cuilin
#TheRedHeadedLeague
#Discussion

What did y'all think? 🤩

Librarybelle I honestly didn‘t read into anything wrong with the marriage. I‘m not married nor have a significant other, so I cannot speak from personal experience, but she knows hanging with Holmes makes Watson happy, plus it gives her some quiet time. As for his dress, I just accepted that comment as Holmes‘ snobbishness. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 9mo

CatLass007 It never crossed my mind that the Watsons had marital problems. It‘s something to consider. 9mo

IndoorDame 🤣🤣🤣 That comment jumped out at me for a totally different reason. This is the first place I‘ve noticed Doyle using formulaic writing. But he tends to interject a Holmes deduction about something unrelated to the case early on like that. And it becomes a staple of both Sherlock‘s personality and the whole genre. 9mo

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dabbe @IndoorDame Excellent word choice with “staple.“ We do come to expect Holmes showing us his incredible power of deduction right at the very beginning, don't we? 9mo

dabbe @CatLass007 Mary is quite accommodating in letting Watson jet around with Holmes. She needs to pay attention more to how he looks, though! 🤩😍😃 9mo

dabbe @Librarybelle To not notice how your husband looks early in a marriage may not be a good thing or it may not be anything. I know my husband has (on a few occasions) questioned me as to why I let him go out the door with, say, wrinkled pants. My answer usually is: “25+ years of marriage, that's why.“ 😂🤩😍 9mo

kelli7990 I don‘t have a husband or a boyfriend so I don‘t know but I didn‘t think about the Watsons having marriage problems. 9mo

CogsOfEncouragement I saw it as a very loving, selfless move on Mary's part to encourage Watson to go. She knows how much he enjoys being a part of the cases. Why would she stop him from doing something he loves? They want each other happy. I took the bad shaving as an entertaining way for Sherlock to be observant and make an alarmingly accurate deduction. I don't think we need blame Mary or think Doyle meant to. 9mo

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement She is quite an amazing woman! 🤩 9mo

SpellboundReader I just thought Mary realized Watson needed a change of scenery but otherwise didn't read any troublesome motivators into the equation. 9mo

dabbe @BeeCurious She also probably knows by now how much Watson loves to be involved with Holmes's cases, including her own! 🤩 9mo

Aimeesue @dabbe Wrinkled pants! 🤣 I mean, men can use mirrors, can‘t they? But honestly, having married a military man myself, I have to say that the military drills that in to a person - attention to detail, starting with personal appearance. Watson‘s slipping! 9mo

dabbe @Aimeesue my 1st husband and high school sweetheart (gasp) was in the Navy. He insisted that I always fold his t-shirts military style. When done, you could stack them like the folds of an accordion! 😂 9mo

30 likes13 comments

dabbe

The Red-Headed League | Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes
@Cuilin
#TheRedHeadedLeague

Sherlockians~
And here's some fun stuff for “The Red-Headed League“ if interested. The link is below. 🤩
https://bit.ly/49AHd64

Librarybelle Thanks! 10mo

Read4life Thank you! 10mo

SpellboundReader Thanks so much for all those links @dabbe. I need to print out the word-search. 😍 10mo

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kelli7990 Thanks 10mo

dabbe @Librarybelle @Read4life @BeeCurious @kelli7990 ... you're welcome! The word search can actually be done online, too! 🤩😍😃 10mo

Read4life I enjoyed the word search 🔍 10mo

SpellboundReader @dabbe I'm a paper copy type of person when it comes to crossword puzzles & word search game. Plus, it's easy to work on it for ten minutes, set it aside & come back to it again. Otherwise, I'm fine with doing something like Wordle online though. 🤗 #wordgameidiosyncracies (edited) 10mo

dabbe @Read4life Yay! 💚💙💚 10mo

dabbe @BeeCurious I love using highlighters for word searches, so I happily join you in your #wordgameidiosyncracies! 😍 10mo

63 likes9 comments

dabbe

The Red-Headed League | Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes
@Cuilin
#TheRedHeadedLeague
#Discussion

What did y'all think? 🤩

Librarybelle I liked this one, maybe as much as the short story from last week. I read it in one sitting. 10mo

Read4life I liked this one, too. I remember reading this for the first time at 10 or 11 and being so proud of myself for figuring it out early. ☺️ 10mo

5feet.of.fury Very enjoyable! 10mo

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IndoorDame Bizarre, but super fun! 10mo

Daisey I really like this one. It‘s kind of random but fun. 10mo

SpellboundReader This is my favorite story so far. It wasn't overly complicated or violent and I thought the initial mystery was so bizarre that I found it amusing. Well, Mr. Wilson seemed rather naive. 10mo

dabbe @Librarybelle Me, too! During happy hour, of course! 🍸 10mo

TheAromaofBooks I am really enjoying these short stories!! I think this is a format that works well for Sherlock - keeps things concise! 10mo

dabbe @Read4life 🤩🤩🤩 10mo

dabbe @5feet.of.fury Agreed! 🤩🤩🤩 10mo

dabbe @IndoorDame 🤩🤩🤩 10mo

dabbe @Daisey It was a bit out there! I'd love to earn $ just for copying out of the encylopedia! 🤩 10mo

dabbe @BeeCurious Just a wee bit! 😂🤩😃 10mo

Aimeesue They‘re a very enjoyable part of my week, as Stephen Fry is very kindly reading them to me! He‘s so good with the voices. 10mo

CogsOfEncouragement I enjoyed this one. It seems an ironic truth that people as cheap as Mr. Wilson (paying someone only half wages) have no trouble believing that someone would want to pay them a lot of money to do nothing of value. lol 10mo

dabbe @Aimeesue Yay! 🤩😍😃 10mo

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement Excellent point! He kind of was a buffoon all around. I loved when Holmes and Watson laughed at him, and Holmes even said that he didn't lose much because at least he gained some knowledge! 🤩😂😍 10mo

dabbe @TheAromaofBooks I bet Conan Doyle quickly realized it, too, since these stories are when the whole Holmes phenomenon really took off! 😍 10mo

kelli7990 I enjoyed this one as much as the last story. I finished it in one sitting. 10mo

eeclayton I enjoyed it, too. I found the RHL ruse much more amusing than the actual mystery. 10mo

Cuilin I loved this one, it was simple and clean cut. 10mo

Cuilin @Aimeesue I could listen to Stephen Fry read a telephone book!!! 10mo

Cuilin @TheAromaofBooks agree, I love the laconic compact style. 10mo

Cuilin @BeeCurious sometimes you need a simple solvable mystery. This one was great. 10mo

CatLass007 @Aimeesue @Cuilin Stephen Fry‘s narration is priceless. I also like his introductions. 10mo

CatLass007 The thing I like the least about this story and Conan Doyle‘s writing in general is that he doesn‘t want the reader to try to solve the mysteries so he withholds information. I don‘t usually try to solve things myself but I know others enjoy doing so. (edited) 10mo

Cuilin @CatLass007 I think he gave us enough clues to know about a tunnel being dug to a bank. Everything else was all in Sherlock‘s head, which is not shared with the reader. Perhaps to cultivate the image of Sherlock‘s super intelligence. 10mo

dabbe @kelli7990 Me, too! 🤩 10mo

dabbe @eeclayton Jabez Wilson was quite the hoot! 😂 10mo

dabbe @CatLass007 Agatha Christie was a maestro at this as well. Some love it, and some hate it. When you reread it, the clues jump out at you, but the first time around??? For me, anyway, I was like “Huh?“ 😂 10mo

dabbe @Cuilin I guess that's why he's the detective hero and we sit on our couches, clueless. 🤩😂😍 10mo

CatLass007 @Cuilin I think you‘re right about being given enough clues to figure out about tunneling into a bank vault. But if we don‘t know everything the detective knows we don‘t know the whole picture. @dabbe (edited) 10mo

dabbe @CatLass007 So true. I can't imagine how tough it would be to write a detective story. You want the reader hanging on until the end, so you don't want to make it too easy to solve. But then you don't want it to be impossible either. #catch22 10mo

CatLass007 @dabbe Exactly! 10mo

46 likes34 comments

dabbe

The Red-Headed League | Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes
@Cuilin
#TheRedHeadedLeague
#Discussion

What did y'all think? 🤩

Librarybelle A league of red-headed men was a little out of my scope! Also, the fact that the letter stated a gentleman from Lebanon, Pennsylvania recently died - I live not far away from Lebanon. Bizarre for me that a town in PA would show up in a Holmes story! 10mo

Read4life Copying the Encyclopedia? Just need red hair not legible penmanship? 10mo

IndoorDame The idea of that many people answering a sketchy add or conversely, of them supplying huge numbers of actors to make con seem legit on day 1 both seemed a bit absurd to me, but the story doesn‘t work unless you go with the flow 😁😆 10mo

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Aimeesue Copying the encyclopedia cracked me up. As did Sherlock saying that at least he got an education about topics starting with "A" ? 10mo

dabbe @Librarybelle Now that would be a fun research project: how many people jump in on bizarre schemes? Probably quite a few, now that I think about it. All of the quick-rich schemes that are out there, right? 😂 10mo

dabbe @Read4life And we'll pay you the equivalent of $655 a week (our $ now), but you have to buy your own paper and pens? 🤩😂😃 10mo

dabbe @IndoorDame You hit on the words I'd tell my students over and over again: How much does one have to suspend his/her/their disbelief in order for the story to work? Sometimes the only point is to “go with the flow“ and enjoy it, right? 🤩 10mo

dabbe @Aimeesue That part reminded me of Joey on FRIENDS only being able to buy the “V“ encyclopedia, then sharing his knowledge with his “friends“ until they brought up the Korean War, of which he knew nothing! 😂 10mo

kelli7990 No. I didn‘t notice anything. I just went with the flow and enjoyed the story. 10mo

Cuilin This was probably the only story I could predict some of the ending. The knees, the bank and the clue of being out of the way. But how Holmes knew about the timing I missed. 10mo

Read4life @dabbe Exactly! 🤦🏼‍♀️ 10mo

dabbe @kelli7990 That's what make SH so great! 🤩 10mo

dabbe @Cuilin You're better than me. The 2nd time I read it (years ago), I was like “Doh, stupid me!“ RE: timing: maybe Sherlock thought Saturday as the day because that would give more time for the robbers to escape before Monday. 🤷‍♀️ 10mo

42 likes13 comments

dabbe

The Red-Headed League | Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes
#TheRedHeadedLeague
#DiscussionTime

What did ya'll think? 🤩

erzascarletbookgasm, Cuilin, CogsOfEncouragement, AnneCecilie, Aimeesue, Larkken, Librarybelle, mom2bugnbee, Read4life, StayCurious, CatLass007, Mollyanna, curiouserandcurioser, eeclayton, dabbe, IndoorDame, kelli7990, TheAromaofBooks, 5feet.of.fury, Tineke, Blackink_WhitePaper, Pageturner1, PageShifter, AllDebooks, AnnR, kimrenee, aroyse, CrystalE02, SpellboundReader

Librarybelle It‘s very rare that I figure out the solution to the mystery by the end, so I cannot speak to that. Benjamin Stevenson brings up similar rules with his Ernest Cunningham “Everyone Is A…” set of books. I personally am drawn to characters with flaws, so that plays a part in my liking the mystery. The story flow plays a huge role for me too…is it thrilling, does it unfold plausibly??? 10mo

Read4life #2 will always get a ✅ when Sherlock is on the case. 🤓 10mo

5feet.of.fury To the 5th point I think there are so many small details admitted that the real trick is figuring out which one is important. Holmes will just be saying as many things as possible 😂 like the tattoo with the pink scales being particularly Chinese, oh plus that Chinese coin right there 10mo

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IndoorDame 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣&6️⃣✅ I‘m also bad at solving the crimes myself so 4️⃣&5️⃣are murkier for me… there weren‘t really multiple suspects, and the bank manager seemed to come out of nowhere, but I was getting to the idea that it was a ruse to get him out of the shop, so I expect someone good at solving mysteries ahead of the story would have enough clues to figure out most of this one? 10mo

SpellboundReader The Red Headed League gets a C grade for #4 & #5 especially concerning who the prime suspects are. Holmes has past knowledge of people/places that the reader isn't aware of and he doesn't really reveal that information until the end. For #2 & #3 the story passes the test with flying colors. Well, for #1 maybe the crime is more significant to Jabez Wilson than anyone else. Holmes finds it amusing and Watson initially seems perplexed. 10mo

dabbe @Librarybelle Same here; I rarely solve it. To be truthful, I really don't want to. I want to be stunned until the brilliant unfolding at the end. I think quite a few detective novels leave out some stuff because we all want the thrill of the solution at the end. 10mo

dabbe @Read4life Without a doubt! 🤩 10mo

dabbe @5feet.of.fury It is challenging to sift through what's important and what isn't. That's the fun of it, too, right? 🤩 10mo

dabbe @IndoorDame It is amazing when you reread the story to see that the clues are there (like looking at Clay's knees), but you just don't pick up on it the first time around. Even when they looked at the street behind Wilson's shop and when Holmes mentioned a BANK, I didn't get it the first time around. 😂 10mo

dabbe @BeeCurious For #1, if you mean the crime of Wilson losing his cozy job, totally agree. The bank heist, though, I believe was definitely a worthy crime worth our time. Totally agree on #s 4 and 5. So, Holmes has been “bested“ by Clay before (so have the police), but we're privy to none of the specifics. That makes me also wonder why Watson doesn't include that info? 10mo

SpellboundReader @dabbe Yes, I meant the initial mystery of Wilson losing his sweet paying gig. 🙂
Adding:
Without the investigation by Holmes, I doubt if Wilson would have pieced together the bank heist tie-in, even after it occurred. Well, maybe if someone discovered the tunnel. 10mo

Aimeesue @dabbe There‘s a whole list of cases that Watson didn‘t write about which are mentioned in the books or short stories. Watson explains at some point e point that this is because Sherlock didn‘t solve the case, or people involved wanted it kept private, or SECRET GOVERNMENT BUSINESS (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), and so on. The brief references are tantalizing. http://www.bestofsherlock.com/ref/untlist.htm (edited) 10mo

dabbe @BeeCurious 💯 agree! 🤩 10mo

dabbe @Aimeesue Thanks for the link! They're so good they even sound better than the stories he did put down on paper! 🤩 10mo

kelli7990 I think it succeeded. 10mo

dabbe @kelli7990 🤩🤩🤩 10mo

37 likes16 comments

dabbe

The Red-headed League | Arthur Conan Doyle

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes @Cuilin
#theadventuresofsh
#theredheadedleague
#studyguide

Hi, Sherlockians!
To continue our adventures with Holmes and Watson, below is a link to some interesting background information re: this story with lots of cool photos. *Spoiler alert: There is a summary, too! Discussion questions will be posted on 3/2. Have a lovely week!
The link: https://bit.ly/3wu42cS

erzascarletbookgasm, CogsOfEncouragement, AnneCecilie, Aimeesue, Larkken, Librarybelle, mom2bugnbee, Read4life, StayCurious, CatLass007, Mollyanna, curiouserandcurioser, eeclayton, dabbe, IndoorDame, kelli7990, TheAromaofBooks, 5feet.of.fury, Tineke, Pageturner1, PageShifter, AllDebooks, AnnR, kimrenee, aroyse, CrystalE02, SpellboundReader

SpellboundReader @dabbe Thank you so much for posting the .pdfs for each book or story. I've learned a lot from reading all the background and historical info and feel it makes the Litsy discussions even more topical and enjoyable. 🔎👍😍 10mo

dabbe @BeeCurious You just made my day! 💚💚💚 10mo

Pageturner1 thanks @dabbe the pdf really are interesting and makes it more fun 10mo

dabbe @Pageturner1 🤩😍😘 10mo

43 likes4 comments

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