The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

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"Why is God unwilling that man should know good and evil? Why should religion enshrine a story that celebrates ignorance?"

This book was amazing. It was fascinating and very intriguing, without getting bogged down with moral rhetoric. It provided lots of insight as well as lots of other jumping off points for further research!I'm really eager to go back and reread Gilgsmesh now!An overall great book! ???

GingerAntics Oh I‘m so glad you enjoyed it as much as I did. I enjoyed the reassessment of the story where who was good and who was bad was re-evaluated and there is an argument for god being the bag guy. 5y

GingerAntics It opens up this whole new perspective on the story. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Yes! That was actually my favorite part of the book! When he talked about the testimony of truth in the Nag Hammadi scrolls and how lucifer basically condemmed god for trying to force ignorance on mankind...Wow. That just blew my mind. So much to think about, you know? 5y

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GingerAntics Oh I totally agree with that. I‘ve wanted to read the Nag Hammadi texts for so long, this really made me want to read them even more. I find it interesting that many Christians are still trying to force ignorance in their children. It may have started with god himself. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Right?! Its actually crazy if you think about it. What kind of religious group, or any group really, celebrates ignorance and condemns curiosity and the thirst for knowledge? Its absolutely ridiculous. Instead of urging people to be the best they can be they would rather everyone live in the dark and just do what they're told. Madness. 5y

GingerAntics I totally agree. It‘s how you end up with kids who say stupid crap like “I think Galileo made the right choice when he picked Jesus over science.” Yeah, he didn‘t actually. 🙄 So glad you have a competent person homeschooling you, kid. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Omggggg that is so awful. If anyone ever said that to me I would have to hit them over the head with a science book. Or maybe a hardcover copy of Paradise Lost! 😉😈 5y

GingerAntics 🤣😂🤣 it was from this documentary called “Jesus Camp.” It‘s like a train wreck, you can‘t look away. I‘ve watched that thing like 5 times. You just keep watching these crazies. They don‘t believe in science and a lot of the parents homeschool to keep their kids away from science. The devil made science, according to these nuts. 🙄 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics I am both horrified and fascinated that such a documentary exists! 😂🤣 I feel like I need to get drunk and watch it one night! 5y

GingerAntics Right? It‘s free on YouTube. I think I was drinking the first time I watched it. Then I was just like “did I really see that?” So I went back and watched. Then I was pissed at some of the BS they‘re putting on kids, so I went back to watch it again. I‘m serous, it‘s like a car crash or a train wreck. You know you should look away, but you can‘t. 5y

GingerAntics It used to be on Netflix, so check there, too. I just googled “Jesus Camp” and it came up and it listed all the places you could watch it. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Omg its called Jesus Camp. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I'm totally watching it this weekend! 😁 5y

GingerAntics It‘s literally called that. It‘s kind of scary. The woman who runs the camp is so deluded. After the documentary aired the person who owned the land wouldn‘t let her rent the land from him anymore so last I heard she was looking for a new place to hold the camp. 5y

GingerAntics Part of the documentary is her sitting and watching video tapes of camps and talking about how great it all is and how great the kids are. 🙄 My favourite was looking up the “where are they 10 years later” articles on the internet. It was funny how some of these kids had totally checked out of the madness. Make sure to look those up after you watch. My vote is to laugh. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Its actually kind of terrifying to think of that lady out there somewhere looking for a new place for her crazy camp. 😱 Its like a horror movie! 😁 5y

GingerAntics Right? I think after the documentary, though, most people don‘t want it on their land and she can‘t afford to buy land herself. She likes to spend time just watching all the videos. She doesn‘t have any kids of her own, so her videos are her kids. 5y

GingerAntics “Kids on Fire School of Ministry was a Pentecostal summer camp at Devils Lake, North Dakota, United States. It is the setting of the Academy Award nominated documentary Jesus Camp. The camp was run by the Reverend Becky Fischer.” 5y

GingerAntics “Becky Fischer announced that Kids on Fire would be closed indefinitely due to telephone calls, letters, and other negative reactions after the release of Jesus Camp. Fischer had rented the campground from the Assemblies of God, but was asked not to return because of vandalism at the campground after the film's release.” 5y

GingerAntics At one point they stretch their hands toward and pray for a cardboard cut out of George W Bush. Not even remotely kidding. 5y

GingerAntics I also find it amusing that an ultra Christian Camp was at a location known as “Devils Lake.” 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Ahahahaha! That's so awesome, I love it! 🤣 5y

GingerAntics Right? Isn‘t it great how the universe works out sometimes?! 5y

GingerAntics I‘m rewatching now (like I said, totally train wreck, can‘t look away). I feel like it‘s only fair to warn you. I don‘t see all religion as child abuse like some people, but this I do see as child abuse. No one gets hit or anything like that, but the lady makes these kids cry, a lot. She shames them. I feel so bad for the little blonde boy. When you see him and why, you‘ll know it. Just a heads up. It‘s uncomfortable, but it‘s kind of a good thing 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Dammit, that's so messed up! Those poor kids. 😔 I agree with you completely, religion doesn't necessarily always become child abuse, but it seems like in this case it totally is. I'm so glad she got shut down. I hope all those kids turned out alright. You said they had a ten years later thing, right? Did they seem okay? 5y

GingerAntics The kid you expect ended up a preacher. Another kid made it her own. I don‘t know if she‘s as extreme anymore. She‘s the one who prays for a strike when bowling and commands the ball in Jesus name, then tries to evangelise to some lady really awkwardly. 5y

GingerAntics The poor blonde kid, his dad came out as gay and they all got kicked out of the church, so he‘s not Christian at all anymore. It seems like they‘re okay for the most part. I think the poor blonde kid had the hardest time, but he‘s okay now from the looks of it. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics I'm watching clips from it now. I can't handle the whole thing tonight because I'm not properly liquered up, so I'll save it for tommorrow ? But OMFG that weird girl from the bowling alley. Holy shit. If someone ever came up and said that crap to me randomly I think I would lose my mind. My favorite bit from the highlights so far-"harry potter would be put to death in the old testament." 5y

GingerAntics Oh yeah, there is A LOT of Harry Potter going on in this movie, oddly. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Omg I just saw the kid you mentioned before, that said the galileo thing. Holy shit. He and his mother are SO CREEPY! 😱 5y

GingerAntics RIGHT?! 5y

GingerAntics Did you ever find enough liquor to watch the whole thing? 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Yes, last night! You were NOT kidding about that film being a trainwreck! Ugh. 😑 5y

GingerAntics The leader chick is SCARY!!! 5y

GingerAntics https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/jul/06/jesus-camp-christian-documentary-ki... Here is the 10 years later thing with the poor blonde kid, Andrew and Levi. Levi is a real trip. 5y

GingerAntics http://www.hollywood.com/movies/10-years-later-where-are-the-kids-from-jesus-cam... this one has a summary of the one with Andrew and Levi, but it also has the two girls...and a great video of Levi five years after the documentary. (edited) 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Wow. That pastor actually had the nerve to compare herself to Jewish people during WWII. No crazy lady, you are just a nutcase! 😐 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Also something about Levi still creeps me out. A lot. 5y

GingerAntics Levi is creepy. I don‘t know what it is, but he does give off that vibe. More so than when he was a kid, I think. I‘m guessing just about everyone makes him feel “yucky.” It must be a total trip being his wife. 🙄 5y

GingerAntics Oh she‘s nuts. She is so out of touch. I was disheartened to read that she‘s started a new company and she does workshops instead of camps now. So she goes to churches and teachers them how to be like her. I feel bad for all the little children. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics How is she still allowed to do that? Like, isn't there anything that can prevent from her interacting with kids? I know that sadly it all comes down to the parents, who are just as batshit crazy as she is. Its so sad. 5y

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Branwen

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Things I'm learning from this book! 1) I desperately want to read the Nag Hammadi texts now 2) I desperately want to re-read Gilgamesh 3) Augustine was a weirdo pervert and kind of a jerk

More to come! 😁💕 Thanks again to @GingerAntics for this recommendation!

GingerAntics I‘m with you on 1 and 2. I completely agree with number 3. 5y

Ericalambbrown I really need to bump this up on my “to read” list. @GingerAntics put it on my radar and now I keep running into it. 5y

Branwen @Ericalambbrown Seriously, you need to read it asap! It's absolutely fascinating! @GingerAntics Right?! He was such a turd. Like, just because he had weird issues with sex and intercourse didn't mean he had to force those issues on everyone else! Plus what he did to Pelagius was downright shitty! 😐 5y

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GingerAntics I completely agree. That‘s why I‘ve been saying for years now, “that‘s not theology, that‘s pathology.” 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Exactly! 🤣 5y

GingerAntics Augustine is unwell. If something happened that we don‘t know about with the father or someone else in that bathhouse, if his mother‘s reaction to the inevitability that is puberty, if something else entirely happened to him, I don‘t know, but something clearly happened to him and I have absolutely ZERO belief that God spoke to him. His became a little bigot and jerk. 5y

GingerAntics Part of me truly believes he had some other kind of std/sti because where the hell else does someone come up with a new theory and automatically turn it into an std/sti?! Something was not right with that man and all these years later, we‘re all still suffering the consequences of his pathology. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics I totally agree. It's absolutely insane that one disturbed man caused this ridiculous original sin crap. And he was just so corrupt, it makes me sick. Like he gave the church a bribe if horses to make Pelagius 'go away' and how can you call yourself a man of god after acting like that? Absolute lunacy, the whole thing. 5y

GingerAntics Oh yeah. I grew up Catholic and original sin was taught as straight from God. As an adult I dabbled in Protestantism and they too adored his teachings. He‘s just the penultimate Christian. It‘s disturbing. Once I read the actual history (long before reading this book) I washed my hands of the entire original son business. It‘s completely made up. It‘s a ridiculous, demented fairytale created by a lunatic. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Same. I was raised Catholic as well, and that original sin nonsense was ground into my head right from childhood. And really, how messed up an idea it is to force young children (or anyone really)to believe they were born inherently 'bad', you know? No wonder people have such negative self images. It's crazy. I remember being in youth group as a tween and them teaching us how 'bad' sex is and how our bodies always betray us... 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics ...and I remember thinking that whole idea was just idiotic. Plus I'm bisexual, so you can imagine how well that went over too! 😉 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics It just...blows my mind how nefarious the actual story is. That this whole time that nonsense was just made up by a pervert religious jerk. Ugh. I also live how the author mentions that if history had gone another way, we may have had Gilgamesh or the Enuma Elish as our origin story. It's really intetesting to think of how things might have been different sociologically if that were the case! 5y

GingerAntics I loved that part, too. I think I would have preferred either. I almost want to read those and then devise an alternate universe where those were the prevailing origin stories. lol 5y

GingerAntics I was a big hit in sex ed at Catholic school. We were told that sex is a necessary evil God puts up with by turning his back when you have sex, so do it as infrequently and quickly as possible. (In hindsight I wonder how many unhappy partners the boys-now-men in my class have since had thanks to that! lol) I promptly raised my hand and verified that yes god made everything and yes he called it good... 5y

GingerAntics Then I said if God hated sex so much, why didn‘t he just make procreation happen some other way he DID like. The class giggled. The religion teacher nearly swallowed his tongue. I never did get an answer, but he sure did try to find it in his teacher‘s copy of the book that supposedly gave him all the answers. 😇 (edited) 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Omg, you said that?! You are officially my hero! 😁💕👏 5y

GingerAntics 🤣😂🤣 I was kind of known for that. I would get them to verify seemingly unrelated details, then ask a question they technically had an answer to, but because of what they‘d just confirmed couldn‘t possibly be true. 😏 I got sent to the priest in the building to pose my questions multiple times. I would walk into the church office and they‘d just start chuckling. 5y

GingerAntics At one point, one of the priests even commented he wasn‘t sure I was going to make it as a “lifer.” He was almost wrong. I suppose he still could be, but I doubt it. 5y

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Branwen

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

It really is mind blowing to think of how many creation myths there are! Wow! 😀

GingerAntics It‘s amazing. I‘ve heard of the story of Gilgamesh for years, but I never knew it was a creation story. I want to read it even more now. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Right?! It's so fascinating, right?! I want to read Gilgamesh now too. I readbit a long time ago, but I don't really remember it, so I'd like to read it again with fresh eyes! 5y

GingerAntics Oh you‘ve read it before? It‘s obviously going to have to be a translation, so I‘m rathe intimidated as to which one to choose. 5y

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Branwen @GingerAntics Yes! I had to read it as an undergrad at college, but it was so long ago I don't even remember much about it at all. As you said, I'd also like to do some research on various translations before deciding on which one to go with! 5y

ravenlee I used the Norton edition when I studied it and it was good. There‘s a kids‘ illustrated version, I think by Geraldine McCaughrean, that I found at the library - but my daughter was a little young for it. I liked it, though. 5y

GingerAntics @ravenlee thanks!!! 5y

Branwen @ravenlee Oooh, thank you! I will try and track down the Norton edition! And that's really cool that there is an illustrated version! I'd love to see what that one is like as well! 5y

ravenlee As I recall, the epic feels kind of disjunct, since large sections are missing, so it loses coherence as a story, but as a related collection of tales it works. 5y

Branwen @ravenlee That totally makes sense 5y

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Branwen

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

My library hold came in today! Thank you to my friend @GingerAntics for your awesome posts and discussions about this book which made me super excited to read it! You're the best! 😀👍 I can't wait to dive into it! 💕📚 #librarylove

GingerAntics Yay for library holds coming in!!! I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics I am sure that I will! 🤗 5y

GingerAntics I‘m so excited to see what parts of the book get you posting. 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

pick

5🌟 Absolutely adored this book. This addressed many of the questions I had about this story, as well as pointing out a few I have no idea how I missed. I great combination of history, theology, mythology and art. My only caveat for this book is IF YOU BELIEVE THE STORY OF ADAM AND EVE IS LITERALLY TRUE, DO NOT READ THIS BOOK, IT WILL OFFEND YOU.
#theriseandfallofadamandeve #adamandeve #stephengreenblatt

GingerAntics The wonderful conversations started by this book here on Litsy made this book totally worth the read on their own. The wonderful nature of the book was just amazing cake to go with the great conversation icing. Can‘t wait for the what the next Greenblatt book brings. 5y

MrBook Great review! 5y

Weaponxgirl I have been searching for this book inspired by some conversations 5y

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GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl any of ours? lol 5y

GingerAntics @MrBook thanks! 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics maybe 😉 I read books mostly by women but have eased up just a tiny bit this year and this sounds like my kinda thing 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl I completely recommend it. Just sayin. In case you didn‘t know before. 😏 5y

Ericalambbrown Oh, I need to read this one! Sounds fantastic! 5y

GingerAntics @Ericalambbrown it was great. It read well at a nice clip, even though it was full of info. The art section was great fun, too. My reading slowed down as I looked up each image, only to find there was a section of all the images mentioned, in the back of the book. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Oh well. 😂 I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. (Or at least close, I really really quite enjoyed it) 5y

Ericalambbrown @GingerAntics Thanks! I‘m certainly going to have to get a hold of it 😊 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

@julesG here is just one of the many pages Dürer filled in his notebooks in preparation for his Adam and Eve. It‘s very reminiscent of Da Vinci. I think we were definitely on to something with that comparison.
#sketches #drawings #notebooks #durer #art #adamandeve #stephengreenblatt

julesG Another perfectionist. 😉 It does indeed look a lot like Da Vinci. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG absolutely 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

To think, this archaic “repeated remorseless infliction of pain” is one of those things Americans are so desperate to get back to.
#adamandeve #Nietzsche #stephengreenblatt

Exbrarian Down with the puritanical “work” ethic. No pain, no pain. Amirite!? 5y

GingerAntics @Exbrarian 🤣😂🤣 work is useless. Just more pain!!! 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

This is true...ish. I know, here in Texas (and other parts of the Bible Belt), a literally view of this story still exists. There are otherwise intelligent people who genuinely believe the world is only 4,000 years old “because the bible says it‘s so.” 🤦🏼‍♀️
#adamandeve #literaltranslationofthebible #stephengreenblatt

julesG 🙈 I'll adopt you. 5y

VioletBramble When my niece was young I went to the Museum of Natural History with her and some friends. There was a little boy who desperately wanted to see the dinosaur fossils. His mother dragged him away, saying" No, we don't believe in them. They're not in the Bible". I don't understand how people can deny what's right in front of them. 5y

Freespirit It's almost like they are brain washed...no free thinking allowed 5y

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Graywacke I sympathize with your tx experience. I have had the experiences. Otherwise nice and normal neighbors are creationist - two immediate neighbors. I still can‘t process and I‘ve been there a while now. Texas... 5y

GingerAntics @julesG THANKS!!! You‘re so sane!!! 5y

GingerAntics @VioletBramble @Freespirit a had a friend who homeschooled her kids because public school was too secular. They had an Uber Christian curriculum, and world history started with Adam and Eve. I witnessed her giving the kids a quiz, and one of the questions was “on what day of creation were the dinosaurs created.” No lie. It was thought out at least. It was two different days because some could fly. 🙄 5y

GingerAntics @Graywacke I don‘t remember this ever being a thing back in Minnesota. My grandmother was adamant that evolution wasn‘t real, but there was never this idea that science just didn‘t exist like it is here in TX. I just don‘t get it. 5y

Weaponxgirl @VioletBramble poor little guy, I hope he grows up to be a palaeontologist 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl @VioletBramble I bet he‘ll be the best palaeontologist. 🤞🏻 Here‘s hoping for that little guy. 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

This is probably the most true statement I‘ve ever heard. Seeing that this story has been used to justify sexism, racism, anti-semitism, all sorts of violences against humanity in general, this statement couldn‘t be truer.
#adamandeve #theriseandfallofadamandeve #stephengreenblatt

Weaponxgirl I‘ve had my eye on this, thought it might interest you

The Darkening Age

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl I‘ll give it a shot. I hope she makes the destination between the pistic and gnostic Christians, because the pistic were the crazy violent ones (and the ones that eventually took over the entire movement), while the gnostic ones were the peaceful ones that got shut out. 5y

Weaponxgirl I haven‘t read it yet, it just caught my eye when I was looking for history books by women. And believe it or not I went to bed and now my insomnia is in full swing and looks like I‘m up for the day 5y

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GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl aww that sucks. I‘m so sorry. I hope Litsy wasn‘t part of the problem. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl I guess we‘ll find out. I‘m officially on the waiting list for it at the library. It‘ll be able 4 weeks. Hopefully that will give me time to clear out everything that‘s just come in this week. 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics nope, it‘s a combination of doing nights and my brain doesn‘t like to shut off ever. I‘m someone who has super vivid dreams and sometimes sleep paralysis so at times I will wake up exhausted even when I‘ve had a lot of sleep. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl at least mine stops at insomnia. Although, that sleeping for a good amount of time and then waking up exhausted does sound familiar. 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics you‘ll probably get to that book before me! I‘m excited to hear about it! 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl I‘ll definitely keep you posted. I had a plan for what was getting read this year, then holds I‘ve had for MONTHS finally started coming in. Now everything is off. lol 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I do that all the time. I have finally learnt that I am terrible at sticking to even my own reading lists now. I just go with my mood and my best friends have to listen to what I‘m interested in at the time 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl lol that‘s why I don‘t like to restrict myself too much. I generally make master lists on a subject with the idea that I‘ll finish the list in a few years (but maybe not because books keep getting added). lol 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics that‘s exactly how I do it too! I thought I was the only one who had a hundred lists on certain topics but never finished just one. Mines in genres, topics the whole shebang and then I know I have a book available for whatever mood I might be in 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Yeah, and women have always been the problem. 🤦🏼‍♀️ Comes on, guys, really? I can‘t even.
#battleofthesexes #excuseme #icantwiththisguy #adamandeve #stephengreenblatt

“Adam tried out what would become known as beastiality, it wasn‘t for him. Thus he made it taboo and asked for a woman.” 🤦🏼‍♀️

julesG For real? 5y

GingerAntics @julesG for real. Apparently this was a common theory in some circles. No idea. Leave it to a man. “Hey, I‘m bored. That thing doesn‘t seem to be doing anything, I wonder if I can have sex with it. Oh, no? Yeah, no. Oh well. Worth a shot.” 🤷🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🥃 (edited) 5y

julesG 😂😂😂😂 5y

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Exbrarian Wait? I‘m no theologian, but wasn‘t sin “created” because of Eve and the forbidden fruit? I mean, where did the desire come from pre-Eve and the realization that she was a fruit eating hottie? 5y

GingerAntics @Exbrarian that‘s actually what this whole book is about. It‘s all this man made thing. Son didn‘t exist until humans realised that some people where arseholes. 🤷🏼‍♀️ “Fruit eating hottie” 🤣😂🤣 Either I‘ve gone slap happy from lack of sleep or the whole conversation on this book has just gone straight to the point. This whole thing has been taken t absurd levels and now it‘s just funny. 5y

Weaponxgirl 😂 this book has just given the best discussions. Every time I find a new quote and discussion whilst scrolling I get excited 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl oh there are some doozies. I have no idea how some of this stuff was taken so far and no one thought, “hey, this is not sane.” 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics are we talking the subject of the book or discussions? 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl neither, it‘s more the theories people have had about the story of Adam and Eve that are covered in the book. Beastiality, hermaphrodites, no genitalia, god is the good guy, god is the bad guy, satan‘s the good guy, Satan‘s the bad guy, Eve is the bad guy, Adam is a victim, Adam is a willing participant, Adam is clueless and stupid, Adam is a genius, Eve is an evil mastermind, Eve is flighty, talkative, and knows nothing... 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl (takes deep breath) it‘s human history, it‘s allegory, it‘s human history but only the history of the Hebrews, Adam and Eve were one person cut in two thus also explaining why people wanted to get married, Adam and Ever were blind, Adam and Eve were human shaped beings of light, there was a sex in the garden, there was no sex in the garden, there was passionate sex in the garden... 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics it is all insane isn‘t it? Was Lilith mentioned in the book at all. When I heard about her as a teenage goth my heart just went tell me more. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl (takes another deep breath) there was sex that was not exciting or passionate at all that everyone watched because it wasn‘t anything different than having a conversation, they had kids in the garden, they had kids after the garden, the garden is America, the garden is in Africa... and that‘s just what‘s on this bloody book!!! I‘m sure there is more (and some I forgot at the moment). 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl only briefly, in passing really. I‘ve never heard much about her so I was kind of hoping he‘d go there, but it also wasn‘t really part of where he was going with the book so I guess he didn‘t need to go there. He could have but it wasn‘t going to add or detract from his overall point. 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I thought that might be the case. It‘s more a I like hearing about her kinda thing. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl if it was my area, I‘d probably go in search of a book on her. Maybe I will still. 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

@julesG this is what Greenblatt has to say on the matter. All three of these guys were about 100 years before Dürer, and in a similar time to Da Vinci. Now, all of these guys seem to be Italian, so maybe Dürer was the first guy to bring it out of Italy? ??‍♀️
#adamandeve #art #durer #masaccio #uccello #pierodellafrancesca #stephengreenblatt

julesG Seems probable. I can only remember that we were taught in school Dürer was the one. Maybe they just left out that he was the first North of the Alps. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG maybe 🤷🏼‍♀️ the world may never know (edited) 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Shakespeare is just everywhere!!! 💙💙💙 Gotta love that dirty old man!!!
#shakespeare #adamandeve #stephengreenblatt #theriseandfallofadamandeve #shakespearereadalong

TheBookHippie 🤣🤣🤣 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

And all the people in Ireland, Scotland, and at least half of England cheered!!!
#olivercromwell #adamandeve #stephengreenblatt

julesG Love your sense of humour. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG thank you!!! (takes a bow) Not everyone gets it or appropriates it, but I find a lot of people on Litsy do. 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Thanks for that Milton, you twat.
#adamandeve #johnmilton #stephengreenblatt

Weaponxgirl I snort laughed at your twat comment 😂 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl I can‘t with sexists. They all deserve to be called nicknames for female genitalia. Just saying. 😏 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics oh I‘m the same way! Except I always say I‘d call u that but they have warmth and depth. I can‘t remember where I stole that from but I did end up thinking about how male genitalia is considered a minor insult yet a woman‘s is considered much worse. 5y

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GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl true. Getting called a dick isn‘t nearly as bad as being called a twat or the other version I could get thrown off Litsy for using (the p-kitty-one). 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl that is very true of the female genitalia though. That is a valid point. I suppose for men, being warm and deep is a negative, where as for women it‘s a positive. 🤦🏼‍♀️ Men far prefer to go sticking there “noses” in where they‘ve not been invited. lol 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I was thinking the c one. And the p one has never made sense to me as it‘s normally used in conjunction with implying someone is weak. How strong are vaginas?! They whoop out babies and are much stronger than balls. We need to change the language around a bit methinks 5y

julesG What? I can't say pussy here? Can I say fanny? 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Yeah that! Re: vaginas being stronger than testicles 5y

TrishB Literally just spat my tea out @julesG 5y

julesG @TrishB You're welcome! 😜 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG since I‘ve been snickering at books since I was a child when a character has that as a name I think we may be safe for that 😉 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Why do we have to pussyfoot around the female genitalia swear words? 5y

TrishB @julesG 😂😂 I‘ve never understood using insults of women‘s bits to convey weakness or stupidity either... 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I have no idea, but I‘ll be honest I tend to not swear on here too much in general as I‘m a Brit and we can kind of make a sport of it whereas I know some people in the states are more uncomfortable with it and I really don‘t want to upset anyone. 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG or in the circles I‘ve been in, I‘ve not met many brits who take huge offence to it who aren‘t from an older generation. And whilst not on here I‘ve seen Americans use a insult that I find horrendous and whilst u can f bomb and c bomb me all you want if you use (re*ard) in my company I will chew you out a new one 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl I'm German, I don't swear a lot in German. But my British friends have taught me a lot. 😏 I try not to swear on here, either. As a life long learner of the English language, though, I'm always intrigued which four letter words are allowed and which not, which are used mockingly among friends and which I should never use. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG yeah, we shocked @Weaponxgirl the other day with “damn” is offensive to many Americans. I‘m the only girl in my generation, so I‘m so accustomed to swearing and “whoever uses the most f-bombs gets a free beer” that I generally don‘t care, but I know it REALLY bothers some of the puritanical leanings of many Americans. 🤣😂🤣 @TrishB this whole conversation just got awesome while I was obliviously reading the next chapter. 🤣😂🤣 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG it really is interesting! I suppose a lot of it is cultural but for me the rule of thumb is anything that is using a group as implying something is bad is actually offensive and insensitive. Everything else I tailor towards the company I‘m in. Which isn‘t very helpful I suppose 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I really was 😯 @julesG (edited) 5y

GingerAntics @julesG @TrishB @Weaponxgirl so this would be the time to say that obviously vaginas are badass and I think penises are lovely, so I think these terms should be used in this way instead? 😏🤷🏼‍♀️🤣😂🤣 5y

Weaponxgirl I accidentally tagged a the wrong jules! 😯 if you end up here I‘m sorry unless u find this funny 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl that‘s pretty much the rule of thumb I use too, for what it‘s worth. If I don‘t know the whole group I just keep it down. When I know a group I know what‘s accepted and what‘s not. I don‘t want anyone to feel like I‘m being offensive when it‘s not intended that way. We see so much of that happen these days, and then it comes back to bite people on the butt later. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl oh my god this is just getting more and more amazing!!! Sure hope the accidental Jules isn‘t offended. We‘ve clearly lost our minds over here. Oh and @julesG Fanny is totally acceptable. Still no idea who would name their child or character that. 🤣😂🤣 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics we should and you‘ve just reminded me that in this book the author recommended using Walter Scott freeman as an insult. He was an awful human being who went around lobotomising everyone he could get he‘s hand on when not a trained surgeon

Get Well Soon: History's Worst Plagues and the Heroes Who Fought Them

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl oh my god yes we totally should!!! Forget “twat.” He‘s a WSF!!! 👍🏻 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl I'm trying to behave online. I even try to behave offline, but sometimes my brain to tongue filter doesn't work properly. ? - - - RE: culture - that was my field of study. "British cultural and area studies", we never had a class on taboos and issues, or swearing. It would have been so helpful. Much more helpful than learning which rank of nobility is higher, how to address royalty, and why Britain has empirical measurements. 5y

julesG Fanny is a traditional first name in Southern Germany and Austria. Friends of mine wanted to name their daughter thus. 🙈 5y

julesG BTW a British colleague of mine told me that it's no longer PC to call a Richard "Dick" or "Dicky". ? 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG @GingerAntics I just realised that fanny is used for but in America right? Not vagina which is a very old fashioned thing from the uk that I haven‘t heard for years. Are we all using it in the same way? 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I think that was used more in older generations, I had a great uncle dick and tbh he was the worst kind of human and I don‘t say it lightly so but I‘m glad he‘s dead. So that nickname has bad connotations for me on a personal level 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl We had an exam candidate who introduced himself as "Richard, or Dick" and my colleague and I nearly burst out laughing. That candidate might have read Neverwhere once too often. 'RichardRichardMayhewDick' 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I have no idea about nobility if I‘m honest. I think the most important things to learn is queuing (omg the rage I see if someone tries to skip a queue) and learning sarcasm as a term of endearment. Tbh, if I‘m ripping the piss out of you in an obvious way I probably like you a lot. 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics @TrishB - watch this video starring Simon Pegg and Henry Cavill explaining British slang. https://youtu.be/5eIj1nDUs9g 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl True lifesaver. Learned quite a lot from this book.

Watching the English: The Hidden Rules of English Behaviour

Weaponxgirl @julesG oh and the British are horribly passive aggressively polite. I have have caught myself saying “excuse me” “I beg your pardon” or tutting when I‘m genuinely annoyed. Then I put my head in my hands after the fact and squirm going I‘m so bloody British 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Fanny - it's either a girl's first name, then she's probably from Southern Germany or Austria, or her parents were twats. - or it's female genitalia in the UK. - or the behind in the US. Hence "fanny pack" is hilarious for me. 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG yaaass, fanny pack is hilarious. I forgot the big one with British passive aggressive “with all due respect” omg if someone uses that on you they think your an idiot and they have no respect for your position whatsoever 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl 😂😂😂😂 Tutting. Caught my other colleague doing it and we burst out laughing. Oh, passive aggressively polite I'm good at - - actually, I often behave and talk quite Britishly in German, and (obviously) people don't get it. 😔 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl "with all due respect" is often used in US films or TV series - but in most cases it's not used disrespectfully. *scratching my head* 5y

GingerAntics @julesG but then they wouldn‘t be taboos if people were willing to talk about them openly and freely, now would they? 🙈 No no no, please tell me you were able to convince them not to? ... Wait, it‘s not? Then someone really needs to tell Dick Cheney!!! @Weaponxgirl fanny is a very “grandma” sort of word for butt, yes. I didn‘t know it had other meanings. This just got even better. 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG glad you‘ve got it, the passive aggressive politeness is where I feel most sorry for people from other countries. I‘m interested in what German humour is like? Does it mesh well? 5y

GingerAntics @julesG Oh I totally forgot about the “RichardRichardMayhewDick” from Neverwhere!!! 🤣😂🤣 @Weaponxgirl OH MY GOD YES!!! I‘m most sarcastic with people I like. If I don‘t like you (or I‘m in a professional setting where being too familiar is frowned upon) I‘m not sarcastic at all. Oh my god Americans don‘t get that at all. 🤣😂🤣 I feel like I‘m watching “Very British Problems” all of a sudden. Oh my god this conversation is great!!! 5y

TrishB @julesG @Weaponxgirl we swear a lot in our house! Mainly at football and politicians. Fanny is a definite giggle word in U.K., if someone introduces as such people would try not to meet others eyes. Most Brits are passive/aggressive though and as you say would tut loudly rather than actually say anything. And queue jumping should be punished by maximum prison sentences. 5y

TrishB We actually put a whole chapter in the student handbook in work for international students to try and explain these wonderful quirks 😁 5y

julesG @TrishB 😂😂 queue jumping 5y

GingerAntics @julesG @Weaponxgirl yes, in the US “with all due respect” is actually serious. 🤷🏼‍♀️ You‘re supposed to use it when you have to give unfavourable news to a superior. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I tend to use it in the British manner. There is actually an America movie where someone uses it in the British manner and the other person says “just because you say ‘with all due respect‘ doesn‘t mean you get to say anything you want.” 😏 Yeah it does. 😏 5y

Weaponxgirl @TrishB I used to work in a shop and when I was on the till someone tried to jump to the front and I pointed out there was a queue and didn‘t care that they only had one item and would have to get to the back. Honestly Ive never felt like such a hero with the reaction from the other customers and the big smiles I got. Before or since 😂 5y

GingerAntics @TrishB thank you!!! Queue/line jumping without permission is horrendous!!! The lowest of humanity. I bet Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Donald Trump NEVER stood/stand in line. Look where it gets us all. This makes sense to add for international students. It could be quite shocking. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl you are my hero!!! 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl German humour? Is there such a thing? Nuh, joking. Yes there is. It tends to be very crude and more or less direct/blunt (to me!). The subtle art of sarcasm is lost on most German, me thinks. My kids are 13 and 8 years old, they use sarcasm a lot. Their teachers have told me that a child cannot grasp sarcasm under the age of 16. I could not come up with a sarcastic remark, I was dumbfounded. The 5y

julesG @GingerAntics 😂😂😂😂 queueing 5y

GingerAntics @julesG @Weaponxgirl @TrishB yes, the fanny pack is coming back into fashion and I have NO idea why!!! They are horrendous. I don‘t know what I‘m going to do if I can‘t laugh at marathoners who wear them anymore because they‘re “cool” again. 🙄 So Not Cool. This is my entertainment when running!!! It‘s half the fun of running races!!! (Well, that and when men wear tiny shorts, running shoes and nothing else even in 40 degrees and colder. 🤣😂🤣) 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I was a manager and talking of sexism it was a body building shop. I had a lot of fun with that one, especially since the regulars and the guys that worked for me thought I was great and would 100% back up this little short 24 at the time year old 5y

GingerAntics @julesG oh my god hello!!! Children are GREAT at sarcasm!!! Then apparently your children are absolute geniuses and so were all of us in this conversation (and just about all of Britain). 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl The artform Germans do exceptionally well is complaining. And I just remembered, the comedians who are using sarcasm are often seen as the comedians of the intellectuals. 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG omg! That‘s when you needed one of your children there going of course not really sarcastically. I wouldn‘t know what to say either 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl oh my god that sounds like the best job!!! It takes a real badass to be accepted as a female with that crowd. What, that‘s our new meaning for twat. 🤣😂🤣 I‘m 12 again. 🤣😂🤣 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics funniest thing is I never exercised 😂 I was the worst for that job but I did know a lot of bouncers and security guards. One was in the shop next door and gave me his personal number for when I was on my own so if anyone thought they could intimidate me he‘d show up and put that toxic masculinity right back in its place. 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl People, here in Germany, often don't get me at first. They say I'm strange, I say strange things,... When they've known me a while, what I hear most often "you say the funniest things with a straight face" (translation: you use sarcasm well) 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG oh complaining is good, I think we have that in common. The weather damn it! 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG oh I love when German people do that! I‘ve worked with a few German carers and they were always so efficient. I hate to rely on stereotype but in these cases it was true. 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Yep, efficient is my middle name, too. I can live with that stereotype 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I always felt like I was in the way. Practically screaming in panic whilst working with them and trying to keep up and not add to their workload as I‘m kinda clumsy 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl You've just described my kids. 😁😁 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I would happily let you adopt me. Maybe before brexit is “finalised” I‘m a good cook (vegan though But I don‘t do the weird this kale tastes just like meat rubbish) and I come with lots of books 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Deal! 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl BTW kale is very big in the area I live in. Granted, they add lots of bacon and strange sausages - yuck!!!- but there is a "kale season" 5y

julesG Anyone of you watched that video I linked too? @Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics @TrishB? Let me check whether I've got this: dick is an insult, prick is a slightly milder insult, nob is an affectionate insult? 5y

GingerAntics @julesG doesn‘t the bacon negate all of the healthiness of the kale? 🤣😂🤣 @Weaponxgirl wait, I want to be adopted, too. Either that or just be a political refugee since I know stuff and I‘m a girl and Trump is the president. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG not going to lie. I‘m not sure what‘s more disgusting, kale or bacon. Who are these weirdos who think a leaf tastes like a dead animal‘s carcass? Just curious. Funny, this book suggested that during much of history, Adam and Eve were believed to be vegetarians (they also seemed to believe lions were also vegetarians so it‘s probably not all that plausible really). 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I do like kale, I just find some vegan bloggers are far to into the Instagram kind of healthy approach and then lie though their teeth. No that doesn‘t taste like cheese and cashews sweetened with dates is not a dessert and I CAN tell it doesn‘t have sugar in it. I tend to go for recipes that just happen to be vegan but if I do find a alternative that is amazing I will tell you about it (vegan Ben and Jerry‘s is sooo good) 5y

julesG @GingerAntics Kale doesn't have to be healthy here, it's a very hearty dish and it has been for generations, ever since Frédéric the Great introduced the potato to Germany, we've tried to outbalance its bland taste with bacon, pork sausages, and (English style) kale. (English style referring to overcooked veggies) 😝😝😝 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG oh yea, nob is used affectionately when the other person has done something stupid. Like a conciliatory aww you nob. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG yes, I think you‘ve got the dick, prick, nob thing straight. Nob isn‘t a term for a penis in the US. There is actually an apartment complex by the grocery store called “Nob Oaks” and it makes me laugh every time I see it. 🤣😂🤣 5y

GingerAntics @julesG I suppose with the right ingredients anything can taste good. @Weaponxgirl I knew a woman who would bake kale with a little olive oil and claimed it tasted just like kettle chips. It did not. 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics oh I would be on the floor @julesG we all forgot about wanker! Can be either from me, either endearing or low level I don‘t like them. 5y

julesG Just in case you were wondering, I'm not from this area of western Germany where they came up with this kale dish, I don't eat pork (part time vegetarian, I just eat my kids' leftover food when they are at their father's, because I just can't throw it in the bin), I love Ben&Jerry's vegan ice-cream 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl But wanker describes an action, not a body part. Or did I get that wrong? 5y

GingerAntics @julesG oh okay. Yeah, I‘m not a fan of pork. I not a fan of fatty meat either. There is something about the texture of fat that just disgusts me. My mother will gladly gobble it down. I‘m the odd one in my family. 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG well then you would probably love my food! I cook a mean veg by curry from scratch but I‘ve heard other European countries can be harder to source “ethnic” ingredients from once you get out of metropolitan areas. We screwed our cuisine up in the uk for years so it‘s super easy to get a lot of the ingredients for other countries cuisines on the whole 5y

julesG @GingerAntics Odd one 🙋 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl oh I love the word wanker. That truly has multiple uses. I like using it here since all of our words for it are either highly clinical or puritanical. I find “wank” to be a nice fun term. It should be fun, shouldn‘t it? If it‘s not, I don‘t think you‘re doing it right (or your parents once beat you for it). 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG it is an action but since it‘s something related to those areas I was hoping it counted? 5y

GingerAntics @julesG I call this meeting if the odd ones to order!!! 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl oh I‘ll do anything curry. Sign me up!!! 🙋🏼‍♀️ 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl You just need to know where to get the ingredients. Luckily we have a few British barracks left in town and the area, so it's rather metropolitan. 😉 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl @julesG I vote that wanker totally counts. It‘s totally related. 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics so I work with children and a lot have autism and so teaching social cues can be a big part of it. You would be surprised how much I have to think about it and how many stories I have that I may leave for another time. The biggest thing is we don‘t want to install shame but also not in the lounge, kitchen ect 5y

julesG Sure, wanker counts. Now, the interesting question is (and I'm trying to go full circle here), how about the female genitalia? 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl I admire people who work with people/kids with special needs (please tell me if I've used that term incorrectly - didn't want to say disability) 5y

GingerAntics @julesG female genitalia should be euphemisms for “badass.” 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG the main thing is not to say disabled or special need first as that implies that comes before them being a person. You can also say additional needs and this will depend on the person if they can communicate a preference over it. 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I @julesG I concur and also warmth and depth. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl oh I‘m all about that. It‘s important to focus on the idea of “time and place.” It‘s your body, so you can enjoy it, but that‘s private. I have a parenting book that talks about trying to teach kids that there is a big difference between running around the house naked when grandma is there and when the plumber is there. It‘s all a teaching process, made all the more complicated by things like autism. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG what @Weaponxgirl said. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl in America, it‘s still completely common to beat children (I have no other word for it), no matter their age or maturity, for touching their own bodies. It‘s still totally common to teach that it‘s wrong. It‘s still totally common to use words like “dirty” and “gross.” Almost more damaging is to just never talk about it at all (or using “tee tee” or “bo bo”) because it‘s just so gross to talk about. 🙄 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl America is a puritanical wonderland in so many ways, especially when it comes to children. 🙄 Any adult who stops their toddler from touching themselves because “it‘s inherently sexual. How can it not be?” is the one with the problem and shouldn‘t be allowed to be parents, in my opinion. It‘s amazing what adults will do to children here, especially when touching one‘s own body is involved. 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Okay. In German it's disabled, either physical or mental disability. Something like additional needs or special needs is not used. And, having a walking disability, I tend to talk about this more often in German than in English, resulting in a lack of vocabulary. 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG we tend not to use mental disability but say more often learning. In my setting it will tend to be the actual disability said itself and then if say other stuff is included then additional needs. They won‘t all even necessarily be linked to the disability. But as an example we may say this person has cerebral palsy and additional needs with autism and a unstable home life. We really are about putting the person foremost 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics that breaks my heart to hear. I can‘t talk about what individuals do in their own homes and I‘m sure there are puritanical parents here as well but I can say that in my setting if you told a young person off for just the act not the context of the act then you would be in a lot of trouble as is correct. We also have a lot of effort in teaching others boundaries. 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Makes sense. And I'm sure people working in schools with children with autistism, or any other special needs (sorry, cringing at the word myself), do use different terms. One of my friends has a son with autism. Another works in a school where there are a lot of children with autism. I think the term that is most often used is: integrated/integration - saying, basically, that children with additional needs go to a regular school 5y

julesG @GingerAntics I'm sure there are a lot of people here that talk in baby-terms about, are shaming, or try to ignore masturbation. Beating might also still be used. I thought, with 21st century sex-Ed this would die out, but it doesn't. Some of my friends can't talk straight with their 13 y/o daughters when they get their first period. 🙈🙈🙈 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I tend to only say children with disabilities when describing my work if I‘m honest as I‘m in a respite home and the children all have different conditions such as Down‘s syndrome, cerebral palsy and autism to name just a few. As the needs are all so different even with people with the same conditions I tend to use the actual disability itself and their actual needs when working. 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Better than beating about the bush. 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG yes, and if I went into detail without being asked I‘m sure I‘d be even more insufferable company than I already am. 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl 😁🙋🙋welcome to the club! 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I‘ve been a member for a long time 😁I‘m called weird by other brits all the time and if I ever call you weird it‘s a high compliment in my eyes 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl oh my god, you would get fired here for even getting into it. It would almost just have to be ignored and brought to the parents attention to deal with, unless it was hurting another student, then the child would be outright expelled. 🙄 So messes up here. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG @Weaponxgirl adults not even being able to talk with there teenagers is quite common here, actually. Many kids get all their info from the internet when their parents don‘t know about it. My parents never told me anything. Everything I knew until I was older came from Catholic school. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl @julesG weird to my friends is a high compliment. Weird to strange people is usually not. It comes down to context I suppose. In this context it would be high praise, though. lol 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I don‘t know how it works in other settings as I‘m pretty sure parents can still take their kids out of sex Ed here which I think is ridiculous. It also still has a way to go with things such as active consent, how porn sex Is different from real sex and gay sex isn‘t covered well either 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics @julesG yes you are both wonderfully weird and hilarious and I wish I could go to the pub with you both as I think we would all have a ball. 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Sex-Ed is part of the curriculum from an early age on. My daughter's in third grade, they have a programme called "My body belongs to me", where they learn about how to protect themselves from unwanted touching, sexually and otherwise. Also, in connection to this, they have basic sex-education. In 5th/6th grade, reproduction is part of the curriculum in biology, which is repeated and expanded in 8th/9th grade. It might not cover ? 5y

julesG Topics, but it covers a lot. Hormones, puberty, period, STD, safety,... 5y

julesG Weirdo gang pub nights! That would be so cool. @Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Are you, by any chance, coming to the Gladstone Library retreat? 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG that‘s good to know. My friend who is a teacher in first school was telling me about what they teach (papers such as the sun were going mad like they were teaching 5 years olds how to give head or something) it was about how you don‘t have to be touched if you don‘t want to be and how to ask another child for a hug for example. Nowt to do with grownup sex just about boundaries at that age. And telling someone if you were 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG uncomfortable or felt safe. It‘s tough and you don‘t want to scare kids or overreact but the sad truth is bad stuff happens to kids and if they are taught at school they can say no from a young age and tell someone then we can help them a lot quicker and more effectively 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I am not unfortunately ☹️ 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Shame, about the retreat. - - - Boundaries are an important lesson,setting them to protect yourself and accepting other people's boundaries for what they are without getting hurt. 5y

julesG Okay, ladies. I have enjoyed our chat. We should think about a Slack chat or WhatsApp group. I'm off now. My wifi will switch off in a few minutes - set up "boundaries" to stop myself from staying online all night. Have a wonderfully weird evening and night, I'll see you tomorrow. ?@Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics 5y

GingerAntics @julesG @Weaponxgirl I agree that sex ed needs to start young and it needs to start with boundaries. The more you reiterate this point that everyone gets to say what happens to their own body, the more we hopefully won‘t have as much issue with consent. In high school, they literally defaced the biology text books. They removed the entire section about reproduction (for any animal) and coveted that part in the table of contents. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG @Weaponxgirl At least in MN they covered sex ed (even if it was biased and called “Family Life” instead of sex ed). Down here in TX, they won‘t even touch it. I knew 16 and 17 year olds who had NO CLUE what sex was. They just knew they weren‘t supposed to have it until they were married and they had to keep their purity (that‘s why they had special rings). 🙄 5y

GingerAntics @julesG ah, that‘s smart. I hope you‘re getting some sleep now. You‘ll see this in the morning, so GOOD MORNING!!! GUTEN MORGEN!!! (I think I spelled that right, even if autocorrect wanted to make it Gutenberg morning. No idea what that is.) 🌞Not having a character count would be useful. lol @Weaponxgirl sadly, so many bad things do happen to kids. I grew up catholic so priests always stand out to me. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 5y

julesG Good Morning! Gutenberg makes sense, we're talking about the printed word here, even if we went on a tangent. 😉 Too little sleep, now I have to rush, appointment in two hours across town and I'm still in bed. 🙈 5y

GingerAntics @julesG oh no. Everyone seems to be short on sleep today. Hopefully I can break our streak in the next hour or so. 5y

julesG I should just go to bed earlier. 😉 5y

GingerAntics @julesG 🤷🏼‍♀️ sometimes the conversation or the book is just too good. 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG @GingerAntics I loved the idea of a group chat jules! 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Just let me know. I can set up a Slack group or WhatsApp group, or even hangouts, three a, Skype 😉 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I‘m not on anything other that whatsapp atm myself but I‘d look into slack if that was easier than others (not on Facebook and never will have an account with them) 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl No, please no Facebook. Slack has a Litsy group, I can send you an invitation link. Also, Slack has a desktop version. 😉 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG awesome, I‘m mostly on my iPad so I‘m sure I can use that 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl I'll only need your email address. You can send it to me at JulesGDSide@gmail.com 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG ok 😊 I‘ll send that later as I really need a nap now as I woke up at 3am this morning and now I am feeling it. 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl No problem. Enjoy your nap. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG what‘s slack? I‘ve never heard of it, but if they have a Litsy group they‘re alright by me!!! 5y

julesG It's a chat-app. I think it was actually directed at people working together on a project, or so. Https://slack.com 5y

GingerAntics @julesG downloading now. I‘m so glad there is a FB free chat app. I swear, I thought they‘d taken over everything. 5y

julesG Sent you an invitation via email. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG YAAAAAY!!! 5y

GingerAntics @julesG okay I think I‘ve figured this out now...or at least figured out some more stuff. So just because you‘re in the workspace doesn‘t mean it‘s one giant free for all discussion. You can create individual chats within that workspace? 5y

julesG Yes, there are a lot of individual chats within one workspace. I've created a closed group, BTW 5y

GingerAntics @julesG oh so random people won‘t come wandering in then? Got it. They might have us committed or something. lol 5y

julesG Just added you to the "weirdopubnight", couldn't think of a better name 5y

GingerAntics @julesG that‘s is the perfect name!!! 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I just accidentally sent you a blank email 🤭 that wasn‘t a nap, it was a goddam full on where am I, what year is it sleep 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I‘m still upset that Facebook bought WhatsApp, but I couldn‘t suddenly make myself be more awkward to my friends. They have all had to tell me things for years by phone as I refused Facebook. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl all of my friends show off their babies on FB and wonder why I have no idea what their kid looks like. 🙄 I know how you feel. Hey, I‘ll take that whenever I can get it. Sounds like you needed the sleep. 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I‘m screwed for the night now though! Waking up a 9.30pm. Guess I‘ll be reading a while 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl Uh-Oh. Oops. That sucks. Hopefully the book is really good!!! 5y

Weaponxgirl @GingerAntics I‘ve found though, not having Facebook is great for maintaining real friendships as people will actually call you and stuff and if I don‘t want anyone to know anything about me and what I‘m doing they can‘t find me anywhere and know what I‘m doing. I don‘t think anyone from the real world is on here either. 5y

GingerAntics @Weaponxgirl I will admit I text people a lot. I‘m not a big talking on the phone person anymore. Still, I like having relationships that are more than “did you like my last post? Why didn‘t you love it?” 🙄 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl No worries about the empty email. All I needed was your email address. I've sent you an invitation. once you're on and I've added you to the weirdopubnight, we can have a blast. 5y

julesG Also, FB makes me want to walk around with a permanent face-palm. I'm on FB, but I only check in once a week or so. It's actually destroyed a lot of good online friendships. I used to chat with a bunch of people from all over the globe via email, or yahoo groups. Now that we're all on FB, the chat is dead. 😔 5y

julesG And I have one friend who left WhatsApp for good. I'm using Threema now, to chat with her. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG yeah, I‘ve had friendships die on FB now that I think about it. It‘s sad really. So glad I deleted my account. It does make you feel left out from time to time, though. I‘m working on that. Litsy definitely helps. 5y

julesG I just check in to see whether someone sent me a message. Basically, I could delete my account, I don't look at my page. I'll pluck up the courage to delete my account soon. I know it. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG it‘s not for everyone. Sometimes it‘s nice just knowing it‘s there. My mother tried deleting her account, but she went back to it a week later. When you delete it, you have 30 days to log in to your account again to keep it from being deleted. 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG I‘ve just sent a different email account to try from please. I don‘t know when my iPad became so difficult with emails! 5y

Weaponxgirl @julesG scrap that, I think I‘m on now. The app is finally working! 5y

julesG @Weaponxgirl Sent you a second invitation anyway. 5y

16 likes162 comments

GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Chapter 8: Embodiments sent me to the proverbial art books (google image search) as it discusses some of the most iconic depictions is Adam and Eve. The one that is considered the best embodiment of Adam and Eve is at the top, by Dürer. Van Eyck is on the bottom right, Masaccio is bottom left, and Baldung Grein‘s rather creepy portrayal is bottom center.
#adamandeve #art #painting #etching #durer #vaneyck #masaccio #baldunggrien #stephengoldblatt

julesG Dürer's Eve has quite a lot of muscles. I'd like to know what workout routine she followed. 5y

julesG Sorry inappropriate. 🙈 5y

GingerAntics @julesG 🤣😂🤣 right? Apparently the Garden of Eden is good for the body. I‘m getting this is where women started having body image issues. This is supposed to be female body perfection. FFS who looks like that and is remotely sane? (Not counting the crazy cross fit chicks who like to eat like cave men and are actually massively short of a ton of nutrients for no good reason.) 5y

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julesG Well, I counter with, I have two female friends doing cross fit and still looking like women. Anyway, I'm not sure who Dürer used as a model. Women in his time didn't look like that. Either they had curves or were close to emaciation. 5y

julesG Even the ancient Greeks (my phone wanted to autocorrect to freaks) exaggerated and stylised the natural body in their statues. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG actually, Greenblatt talked about Dürer‘s models. We don‘t know there names, but he was going for absolutely perfection, so he used several models, using the face of this one, the arms of that one, the thighs of this one, the feet of that one, and so forth to construct a woman that literally didn‘t exist. The same is true for Adam. Dürer did extensive study of the human form (doing some of the earliest self portraits - (edited) 5y

GingerAntics @julesG - including one stunning nude self-portrait) as well as studies of Greek and Roman statues. He put a lot of work and probably even drafts into this etching. Some of his notebooks remain with drawings as detailed as the hands and wrists, of foot placement, and posture so he could get it as perfect as possible. So no, neither is any loving human being. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG Here‘s a link to his self-portrait. It‘s interesting to see how he saw himself in the mirror (a rarity for the time). He‘s got self-portraits throughout his life, so it‘s almost a study of his changing view of himself. Of course we don‘t have photos to see how accurate they are, but he was said to have an amazing eye for detail. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/25/2a/16/252a161f1f65f9bb42be885a4eb949e6--albrecht-du... 5y

GingerAntics @julesG some people do crossfit and it‘s not bad. It‘s the people that basically treat it as a cult that I‘m concerned with. 5y

julesG Knew it. We were tortured with Dürer in school and then I went to that one university course in art history,... He did his research, Dürer, but he overdid it a tiny bit. Ah, well, today they'd photoshop Kim Kardashian's behind onto Heidi Klum's legs and top it off with whoever's beasts. Again, history repeating itself. 😜 5y

julesG Dürer's eyes are too far apart. Poor chap didn't get that angle right in this one. But he had an eye for details. Just like Leonardo. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG at least his intent wasn‘t shaming women, it was just perfection, and he was totally cool with the fact it wasn‘t real. 🤷🏼‍♀️ His face is a little funky. He doesn‘t look quite like that in other self-portraits, so I‘m kind of wondering if maybe he was more focused on other “details” that don‘t appear in any other self-portrait. 😏😂🤣 5y

julesG 😂😂😂 5y

GingerAntics @julesG when I was reading about everything he did and all the notebooks, I was thinking of Da Vinci as well. Dürer has a similar background to Da Vinci‘s as well. Showing talent young, drawing things no one else could quite see the point or beauty in, etc. If he was an investor and scientist, too, I might start believing in reincarnation. 5y

julesG He's said to be the "inventor/discoverer" of the perspective. Of making drawings of buildings and landscapes more lifelike by using perspective and ratio. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG maybe the reinvention, because Da Vinci did that a few hundred years earlier, and they did that in Ancient Rome and Greece. Somehow, when Rome fell, even art took a few giant leaps backward. 5y

CarolynM Interesting discussion @GingerAntics @julesG Thank you. The Durer self portrait is really interesting, but I wonder what he was doing to get that musculature, especially around the hips! In my eyes the Van Eck Adam and Eve are the most likely to be what people really looked like in his time. I was blown away by the beauty of the Ghent altarpiece when I saw it last year. 5y

GingerAntics @CarolynM I think it depended on what one‘s profession was. Their wasn‘t machinery at the time, so most heavy lifting had to be done by a man or group of men. I‘d think Van Eyck got women accurately (although she‘s supposed to be pregnant in that), but Dürer was definitely going for absolute perfection. If you look at the Vitruvian man, that‘s supposed to be a self-portrait of Da Vinci, and he looks similar. 5y

GingerAntics @CarolynM at the same time, you have to remember that a self portrait is always an interpretation of how the artist sees himself. That‘s a an interpretation of how Dürer saw himself, that may not actually be how muscular he actually was. It may have also been a study in the ideal musculature he could have had. He did A LOT of anatomical study and studying of classical art in preparation for his Adam and Eve. 5y

22 likes19 comments

GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Christians are uniquely twisted individuals, all because Augustine was a uniquely twisted individual. 🤦🏼‍♀️ #icanteven #augustine #isthisguyforreal #adamandeve #stephengreenblatt

TheBookHippie It's crazy considering Jesus treated women like equals and was truly a feminist ❤️🙌🏻 the hatred of women is so very long 😭 ugh 5y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie exactly. It‘s amazing the damage just ONE MAN can do. Thanks for that Augustine. I‘m also glad that people in his own time saw him as psychologically twisted and demented. Too bad Christianity didn‘t listen to those people. Just think of the number of “witches” lives would have been saved. 5y

SamanthaMarie He is THE WORST. Blaming his own sexual struggles on women is just the tip of the freaking iceberg. UGHHHH. 5y

GingerAntics @SamanthaMarie can we also address that he banished his own child from his life because of his own sexual hang ups? Seriously? This is the model of Christian virtue is it?! 🙄 5y

22 likes4 comments

GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Christian doctrine and theological thinking centres on a man who was, in his old age, still hung up on what most teenaged boys get over in a few months (max). Oh yeah, he‘s mature enough to be in charge. 🤦🏼‍♀️
#augustine #adamandeve #agustineneedstogrowup #heagotakid #isthisguyforreal #icantwiththisguy #stephengreenblatt

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Oh yeah, Augustine is a stable individual. No wonder Christians have allowed him to continue to be a central player in the doctrine of their entire belief system. #sarcasm #adamandeve #stephengreenblatt

TheBookHippie Crazy isn't it !! 5y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie somehow he was deeply traumatised by puberty and we‘ve all suffered for it since. 🤦🏼‍♀️ 5y

julesG That prick! I'd think, with all the research that has gone into the topic, the Church would eventually see sense. BUT, why not hold on to an oppressive system. 5y

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GingerAntics @julesG he‘s a bit creepy isn‘t he? Basically, he didn‘t understand oxygenation keeping gangrene from making his penis fall off, so he decided sex with evil. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I completely agree with you. All of this evidence, being able to actually read his entire thought on the matter should be making people decide he‘s not the best person to follow, but of course not. 🙄 He made us all understand this spiritual STD he made up. 5y

julesG Just shows that one man with an inflated ego (and probably a load of sexual frustration) makes rules and changes that do not do a pinch of good to make the world a better place. History is repeating itself, it seems. 5y

GingerAntics @julesG 🤣😂🤣 exactly! It would seem he was quite frustrated as he claimed even in his old age he had no control over his arousal. 🙄 Just imagine, if he‘d had access to science he might not have been such an insufferable twat. 5y

julesG Twat, nob, dick, prick,... All apply. What would the world be like today had he not had a problem with his dick? And, if we ever built that time machine, should we go back and give him some proper 21st century sex-education? 5y

GingerAntics @julesG 🤣😂🤣 If for no other reason than it would be fun to watch him squirm!!! YES!!! 5y

21 likes8 comments

GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Why does it seem that all of our modern problems always begin with this idiot? I‘m not even sure we should be calling him a philosopher or a theologian. Passing off your pathology as theology shouldn‘t be celebrated!!! Christianity was some semblance of sane before he invented original sin and then made it an STI!!!
#stephengreenblatt #adamandeve #augustineofhippo

Branwen Wow, this sounds really interesting! I may have to check it out! 5y

GingerAntics @Branwen I totally recommend this book. It is so good. I‘m in hailing it. But that recommendation comes with a caveat. If you believe the story of Adam of Eve is true, if this is a central tenet of your faith, DO NOT read this book because you WILL be offended. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics I totally don't, so it's okay! 😀👍💕 I love reading things like this, but more for personal pleasure and research, rather than from the perspective of a religious person. I'm going to check and see if my library has it! 😁 5y

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GingerAntics @Branwen oh it‘s definitely not for the religious. I just wanted to make sure. It looks at it as a story and why it‘s been so prevalent a story. Three major world religions have this story as their creation story, but from three different perspectives. It also has a wider view of why we tell ourselves stories and why we‘re so fascinated with the stories we tell. 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Omg just from your description I am already in love with it! 😍 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics My library has it! I just put it on hold! 😀📚💕 5y

GingerAntics @Branwen YAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!! I love when that happens!!! Mine is a library book as well, but I may have to purchase this one. It‘s SO good. I generally don‘t reread, but this may be a reread situation. (edited) 5y

Branwen @GingerAntics Me too! BEST DAY EVER!!! 5y

TiredLibrarian Love "passing off your pathology as theology" ? ?❤ 5y

GingerAntics @TiredLibrarian 🤣😂🤣 thanks! That‘s how I see him. I grew up on a culture that revered him as this innovative thinker and brilliant theologian, but when I had to read his work for a class, I realised he was actually a lunatic that completely changed the course of an entire faith system. 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

I‘ve always wanted to explore the stories of Gilgamesh. This book is making me want to explore it even more. To think, 2100 BCE, a hundred years longer BEFORE the switch from BCE to CE than we are RIGHT NOW on THIS SIDE of the switch, this story was first WRITTEN DOWN. It was told for countless generations before that. 4,119 years of storytelling, started all those millennia ago, and now here we are, their descendants, on Litsy. (cont‘d below)

GingerAntics Can we just stop for a moment and appreciate how awesome and inspiring that is? And just how far we‘ve come since Gilgamesh was first laid down on stone tablets in cuneiform? #stephengreenblatt #adamandeve #storytelling 5y

Lcsmcat I taught the Gilgamesh stories to a class of gifted eighth graders many years ago (2000?) and I was surprised by how into it they were. I expected more eye-rolling. 5y

GingerAntics @Lcsmcat if that‘s not a resounding recommendation, I don‘t know what is!!! That‘s cool. Of course we come into the issue of translations. It‘s always hard to know which one is the best/most readable one. 5y

Freespirit You have peaked my interest! Thank you 5y

GingerAntics @Freespirit you‘re welcome! I‘m so glad I stumbled upon this lovely little find. 5y

21 likes5 comments

GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

I‘m loving how Greenblatt is exploring the storytelling aspect of humanity. He said that gazelles and ghimpanzees don‘t tell each other stories for the fun of it, they don‘t wonder what makes them gazelles or chimpanzees, or why they are they way they are. This is something unique to humans. No other animal on the planet tells stories but us.
#stevengreenblatt #adamandeve #storytelling

readinginthedark That we know of! 🤔 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark true. There is always that whole “we don‘t understand their communication” thing. It is possible. Although, that takes away some of the excitement from his thesis a bit. The book is still good without that bit. I‘m pretty sure they‘re not worried about their lack of clothing, though. 5y

readinginthedark Yeah, I definitely don't think it's to the level that we tell stories or we would have noticed, but I do wonder sometimes with animals that don't have a built-in, "this is what you should be afraid of" system. You know: does everything have to be learned by physically witnessing tragedy, or can it be told? Are some of those elaborate dances and swimming patterns for telling stories rather than just mating and protection? 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark right? We don‘t know what they‘re doing. Some animals are known to have elaborate language systems, so they easily could be telling stories. No, they‘re obviously not writing books and stuff, but still. (edited) 5y

20 likes4 comments

GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

It‘s official. I love this book.
#theriseandfallofadamandeve #stephengreenblatt #adamandeve

Faibka Will need to add this book to my 2019 tbr! 5y

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GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

This is why we‘re all here, isn‘t it?
#theriseandfallofadamandeve #stephengreenblatt #adamandeve

BiblioLitten 💚 5y

GingerAntics @BiblioLitten this quite seems apropos for Litsy and readers everywhere, doesn‘t it? 5y

BiblioLitten It sure does! It‘s just meant for us. 🤗 5y

Faibka Yes, yes! 👏 The more I read your posts the more I want to read this book! 5y

25 likes4 comments

GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

#theriseandfallofadamandeve #stephengreenblatt #adamandeve

Faibka This goes very well with what I‘ve been thinking about for some time now. Guess I‘m going to bump up this book on the list 5y

19 likes1 comment

GingerAntics

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Next up for 2019, a book I recently discovered while trying to get my hands on a copy of another book by this author. I love this author, and I‘m already enamoured with it after reading the prologue.
#theriseandfallofadamandeve #stephengreenblatt

GingerAntics @Faibka not sure how you feel about this topic (it looks at this as a story people tel themselves to make sense of their existence), but it sounds really good so far. Can‘t wait for our readalong of

Hamlet in Purgatory

Faibka Stacked! This sounds like it‘s right up my alley and adding to my ever growing Greenblatt collection. Yes, very excited to read his book on Hamlet :) 5y

GingerAntics @Faibka oh good. I‘m so glad I‘ve found someone else to enjoy him with. I hope you like it. Wait, you‘re not Jewish or Christian, are you? If you are, this one might not be for you. 5y

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GingerAntics @Faibka I didn‘t ask that question right. You don‘t believe this story to be literally true, do you? I already know that my review is going to have to have that caveat in it. 5y

Faibka @GingerAntics Lol, no worries, I was just going to joke and say that it‘s more serious than that as I was raised Catholic 😂 I‘m afraid I‘m not well suited for most belief systems as my brain is hardwired to question everything 5y

Faibka And no, I don‘t think the story is true. I‘ve thought of it as an interesting metaphor: when we reach a certain level of maturity through knowledge and self-awareness we become grounded in reality and realize how alone and disconnected we are. The imaginative and innocent make believe world of a child is in a way a kind of paradise that shelters from pain and disappointment. But, many believed it and how many women have suffered because of it 5y

GingerAntics @Faibka oh my god, me too!!! I was raised Catholic and now I think I‘m nothing. I don‘t even know. I don‘t think anyone believed it was totally true way back when, but when we moved here to TX, it‘s HUGE down here that the entire bible is literal and people believe the planet is only 4K years old and it‘s crazy. I agree it‘s done major harm to women. This book is interesting in that you learn that‘s just the Christian interpretation of the story. 5y

Faibka @GingerAntics wait, you live in TX too?!! Which part? I‘m currently living in El Paso. We should get together! 😆 5y

GingerAntics @Faibka oh wow, you‘re in Texas? I‘m up near Dallas. I guess we‘re technically Dallas. We‘re right on the boarder, kind of the north east corner. I‘ve never been to El Paso. We‘ve been here 19 years next month, and the only place we‘ve been other than Dallas is San Antonio. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 5y

Faibka @GingerAntics Lol, I‘ve been to San Antonio only once and to Dallas only to the airport to change planes when flying up north, lol. Well, if you ever feel like visiting another border city, let me know! 5y

GingerAntics @Faibka yeah, I had to look it up. You‘re almost in New Mexico and right there on the Mexican boarder as well. You kind of forget how big Texas really is until you look at the map and how far apart these city centres really can be. 5y

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Ostaff1

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

pick

I picked this up because I really liked his book The Swerve. I found it difficult to read both because it was dense literate writing, and because the history was so full of virulent misogyny that I had to set it down repeatedly. I learned about the origin of the idea of original sin, which was news to me. I also learned a lot about medieval and Renaissance depictions of Adam and Eve.

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MrBook

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

#Bookmail is the best mail 😁👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻!!! Just snagged an ARC of this tantalizing title of teachable theological theory 👌🏻. Mmmmhmm! Anyone have this one? Can't wait to eventually dig in.

81 likes

RobinGustafson

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Awesome Bookworm podcast which prompted me to check out the book. Added bonus: amazing cover of The Fall of Humankind by Hans Baldung Grien, 1511

https://player.fm/series/bookworm-1337645/stephen-greenblatt-the-rise-and-fall-o...

8 likes

KimHM

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Sneaking a half hour of "me" reading before I get started on class prep ?

6 likes

MrBook

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

#TBRtemptation post 5! Just released. A book of historical, religious, and literary criticism. The heavy work focuses on the Adam and Eve story adhered to by the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic faiths, and the deep philosophical underpinnings with which the world's greatest minds--from Augustine to Dürer to Milton--have tackled. He lays out a model for what the humanities offer us all, and this story is his focal point. #blameLitsy #blameMrBook ?

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KimHM

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

Greenblatt is so refreshingly coherent.

5 likes

KimHM

The Rise and Fall of Adam and Eve | Stephen Greenblatt

From Will in the World to The Swerve, Stephen Greenblatt has been exploring all the ways we seek to explain ourselves to ourselves. This book begins with a fascinating dual exploration of the ways mythology and the sciences try to construct a coherent story.

4 likes