pickIll-Made Knight: This section was huge, but I love that we saw a deeper character arc with Lancelot. He travels the spectrum from hero to lover to madman & finally penitent & proud father. There‘s a lot to process, but 1 thing that stood out was Arthur's realization that forcing people into peace through violence sends the wrong message & isn't sustainable. It‘s interesting he continues to ignore his wife's infidelity at all costs.
#OAFkingalong
AvidReader25 @batsy @rubyslippersreads @BarbaraJean @MeganAnn @Vansa @dabbe @BkClubCare @Suet624 @RaeLovesToRead @wordslinger42 @Lcsmcat @Read-y_Picker @Bluebird @thereadingreference @TheAromaofBooks 12mo
AvidReader25 Now here‘s where I am frustrated with the story. In the entire book, so far, there‘s been almost no interesting females characters we get to explore Maid Marion in the first book actually had a bit of a personality, but we only got to see it for a minute. Guinevere‘s portrayal is completely unrealistic. This queen, who is part of a groundbreaking nation building a new system of law is supposed to be a petulant, jealous, and petty. 12mo
AvidReader25 Instead of showing us a complicated picture of unexpected passion and complex loyalties, we see her pitch fits when she doesn‘t get her way and completely ignore Lancelot‘s moral struggle. It just wasn‘t believable to me. I‘d like to see her story through a different author‘s lens. 12mo
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TheAromaofBooks I've just never been a fan of Lancelot, who always comes across as self-absorbed and masochistic to me, so this book was a bit of a struggle for me. I agree about Guinevere (and I think also the portrayal of Elaine) - both the women in this story didn't feel realistic to me... but then, I didn't particularly like any of the male characters, either haha Also, I've been spoiled by Gerald Morris's Arthurian tales, which I LOVE. 12mo
currentlyreadinginCO I liked this section! This was the turning point for me where I became invested. I don't really enjoy any of the characters, and I agree with the point that I would like to see all of this through another author's lens ... I guess that I like the story and I'm glad that I'm reading it, but I'm not overly impressed with T. H. White's writing. 12mo
currentlyreadinginCO I did like Guenevere, though. She's a mess, but I don't think it's less tongue-in-cheek than the other portrayals. I was compelled by the explanation of her living through wartime and being unable to fight. But yeah, she loves two men that are supposed to be superior to all others, and she's caught in a fascinating mess over it. I would love to see her written with greater depth. 12mo
currentlyreadinginCO And I understand how that's contradictory haha 12mo
Lcsmcat @thereadingreference I liked this section too. But I found I sympathized more with Lancelot. He‘s got this deep-seated need to prove himself, like a little boy who never quite believes that he is lovable. Jenny is a mess, but a believable one. Think Marie Antoinette, married of as a teenager against her inclination and for political reasons. It tracks for me. And I‘m loving White‘s tongue-in-cheek anachronistic style. 12mo
dabbe In some of my research before teaching this, I discovered that T.H. White had a troubled childhood. His parents barely paid attention to him while growing up in India, and he blamed his mother more for that than his father. #gofigure Quite a few critics even labeled him as a misogynist. That “might“ be one reason why few women get portrayed well here. #mytwocents 12mo
currentlyreadinginCO @Lcsmcat definitely! I loved the mentions of airplanes 😂 12mo
Lcsmcat @dabbe Thanks. That childhood makes his portrayal of Lancelot make sense to me. 12mo
AvidReader25 @TheAromaofBooks Yes! Elaine and the other female characters all felt that way, very one dimensional. I need to read the Morris tales! 12mo
AvidReader25 @thereadingreference I didn‘t think about her as living in wartime, but being unable to fight and go on quests. I like that perspective. I can‘t imagine how frustrating that would be. I felt very invested too. 12mo
AvidReader25 @Lcsmcat So true, he seemed so broken. It was so strange that we kept being told he was so ugly, like that was his one defining characteristic. 12mo
AvidReader25 @dabbe That‘s heartbreaking, but definitely explains some things. 12mo
BarbaraJean @AvidReader25 I really appreciated Arthur‘s realization about his methods being contradictory. It felt like he‘d internalized Merlyn's teaching—that he had to keep thinking for himself and evaluate the consequences of his choices. I've wished there was more development of Arthur in these last two sections. 12mo
BarbaraJean @Lcsmcat Your summing up of Lancelot and Guinevere feels spot-on to me. They both felt very realistic (well, realistic within the world White has set up!). I found Lancelot sympathetic, too—he‘s the only one who really seems conflicted about the love triangle! Although this section was much slower, I liked the greater complexity it drew out with Lancelot. But I'm conflicted about Guinevere. (continued ⬇) 12mo
BarbaraJean The portrayal of her relationship with Lancelot felt thoroughly believable: willful avoidance of the moral dilemma, irrational and hypocritical jealousy, and even genuine love for Arthur (though a completely different kind). I didn‘t like her, but I found her believable. Like @thereadingreference, I wanted to see more depth. There‘s so much that could have been fleshed out beyond her relationship with Lancelot, and that‘s almost all we see. 12mo
batsy @thereadingreference I had the same contradictory thoughts about Guenever. I thought White was sympathetic to her but somehow couldn't quite bring her to life in the way he could Lancelot, which I suppose is an interesting look at the author's limitations. Like @dabbe mentions Sylvia Townsend-Warner's afterword describes him as having a troubled relationship with both parents but especially his mother. 12mo
batsy @Lcsmcat I agree, I thought Lancelot was so well-done, with a kind of "fatal flaw" in his character (wanting to be noble to the point of not realising why) that it tormented him. It felt very much like a Greek tragedy at some level, but also fleshed out and modern. 12mo
Lcsmcat @batsy I too read it with Greek tragedy in mind. There are so many parallels! And if Guenever was only portrayed as a foul to Lancelot and Arthur, I saw that as the author‘s choice. Her story would be different, as would Mordred‘s or Gawain‘s. But one must choose a perspective to write from. 12mo
BkClubCare @dabbe - this totally jives with my thinking on THW and I only did cursory look at his background. 12mo
currentlyreadinginCO @batsy so true about Lancelot - you summed it up extremely well! Now I'll be reading with Greek tragedy in mind 12mo
dabbe @Lcsmcat Good point on Lancelot, the ill-made knight. 💙🤗💚 12mo
dabbe @AvidReader25 💙🤗💚 12mo
dabbe @BkClubCare You nailed it! 💙🤗💚 12mo
BkClubCare @dabbe - well, not sure abt that! TY for all your sharing of resources and insights!! 12mo
BkClubCare Big kudos and applause for my cohost who took on most (99%) of hosting duties for this readalong!! 👏🏆🗡️ @AvidReader25 Melissa is such a wonderful person and drama lover and world traveler and book friend. ❤️ Thank you everyone who participated!! 12mo
dabbe @BkClubCare 🥰 12mo
AvidReader25 @BkClubCare 😊 I‘ll do readalongs with you any time sweet friend! 12mo
AvidReader25 @BarbaraJean @batsy I think that‘s my main struggle with Guenever. It felt like we only saw her in the context of her relationship with Lancelot and Arthur. I wanted to see her brought to life outside of that triangle, but you are both right, that‘s not the story he was telling. 12mo
AvidReader25 @Lcsmcat @batsy I loved the Greek tragedy parallels throughout the book. These quests and lofty ideals being brought to their knees by mortal weakness and flawed humanity, it was beautifully done. 12mo
BkClubCare Big kudos and applause for my cohost who took on most (99%) of hosting duties for this readalong!! 👏🏆🗡️ @AvidReader25 Melissa is such a wonderful person and drama lover and world traveler and book friend. ❤️ Thank you everyone who participated!! 12mo
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