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Cuilin
A case of identity | Arthur Conan Doyle
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IndoorDame He says she won‘t believe him, and it‘s dangerous to rob women of their “delusions”. But I think it‘s actually that at that time it doesn‘t occur to him that she might need to know the true character of the people around her so she can use her own critical reasoning skills more effectively in the future, because he assumes there will always be a man around to think and decide for her. 3w
CatLass007 Again, I see this as a symptom of Holmes‘s cynicism, probably Conan Doyle‘s cynicism expressed through Holmes. The circumstances under which the spirit of women is crushed and then they are forced to conform to the standards of society, a society that is inhabited by both men and women. The women who were crushed are now doing much of the crushing. (edited) 3w
BeeCurious Holmes has already decided Mary has no critical thinking skills, so why bother to tell her. His decision will allow her to be victimized again. I think the egotistical behavior of Holmes is horrible, even toward Watson. I'm not quite sure why he puts up with him. 3w
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Librarybelle Agree, @BeeCurious ! Holmes thinks he‘s superior, no matter what, but especially toward women. Mary is not worthy to learn the solution. 3w
CogsOfEncouragement If Holmes tells her, she loses her mother completely. She also loses the feeling of being loved and wanted as a bride. Holmes also believes the cold-blooded stepfather to end on the gallows sooner or later. 3w
BeeCurious @IndoorDame @CatLass007 @Librarybelle - Holmes really is a tough character to like or even respect, as he shows so little respect to others. I suppose readers can admire his brilliance and hope he mellows out a little throughout the series. This is just my personal reaction to Holmes as a character, so far anyway. 3w
CatLass007 @BeeCurious You‘re not wrong. 3w
dabbe Again, I have to go back to Watson. The story is told through HIS eyes, not Holmes's. I'd like to think he's being completely objective in his reports, but even Holmes tells him he gets too fanciful sometimes. On these re-readings, I have really been honing in on Watson more than Holmes for some reason. RE: women ... the mother is sly and (dare I say) evil towards her daughter: two completely opposite portrayals of women who are blood-related. 3w
BeeCurious @dabbe Good points, especially about the mother. During each reread I'm sure you are picking up on many different things. Many of these stories are a first read for me, so I've been hyper focused on Holmes. He is a shocking character, even through Watson's eyes. I wasn't expecting that. Of course Holmes is also a product of Victorian society with a male author, so I probably shouldn't be shocked. 3w
CrystalE02 It could have been both of view of Holmes and Watson. 3w
dabbe @BeeCurious I also am getting to see Holmes with new eyes, thanks to all of you! What a wonderful reading community this is. 🤩😃😍 3w
dabbe @CrystalE02 Absolutely. They're both (ahem) Victorian men, though Sherlock does seem to have a more scathing view of women. I think Watson sees them as damsels in distress (aka his wife, Mary). 3w
kelli7990 Maybe he didn‘t tell her the truth because he knew that she wouldn‘t believe him. 3w
Aimeesue @CogsOfEncouragement I absolutely agree. Rather paternalistic, but Mary doesn‘t seem to care much about the money - of which they‘re shorting her of only the income, not the principal, right? What would happen to her if he did reveal the scheme? 3w
38 likes1 stack add14 comments
blurb
Cuilin
A case of identity | Arthur Conan Doyle
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IndoorDame It‘s a favorite quote of mine! But I see this story more as demonstrating how cruel life is than how strange. Maybe we just live in more cynical times? 3w
CatLass007 Didn‘t Shakespeare say something similar in one of his plays? I‘m paraphrasing but the theme was “There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” Or am I trying to fit a round peg into a square hole by comparing the two? 3w
CatLass007 @IndoorDame I don‘t know that we live in more cynical times. Holmes doesn‘t just feel superior to others, his cynicism about the motives of others is on full display. 3w
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Librarybelle I have said a few times life is stranger than fiction! 😂 Call it my years working at the library! 😂 But, I like @IndoorDame ‘s assessment, that this story shows the cruelty of life rather than strange. I see this as a story of manipulation as well. 3w
CogsOfEncouragement I find a character in a story of fiction saying this quite funny. Real life is so strange, dear reader, please forget you are reading a story from the imagination of the author. I feel it is another bit of dry wit which makes me enjoy this series so much. 3w
kelli7990 I think it does. I think it‘s strange and disgusting that the stepfather in this story pretended to be a potential suitor for his stepdaughter so no one else would marry her and he ended up marrying her for money. How did she not know that she married her stepfather? He must have been really good at disguising himself. 3w
Aimeesue The lengths to which her mother and stepfather went were mind boggling. Who does that? 3w
Cuilin @CatLass007 ah yes, Hamlet to Horatio who he believes has a narrow outlook on the world. 3w
32 likes8 comments
blurb
Cuilin
A case of identity | Arthur Conan Doyle
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IndoorDame I have mixed feelings about this. I found the fiction vs. reality part of it very satisfying, but the perception of women part infuriating. So the solution itself was actually very satisfying, but then the fact that the law couldn‘t touch her her stepfather, that Sherlock didn‘t bother to tell Mary what he discovered, that he clearly hadn‘t intended to tell her even before she left his office, & how nonchalant he was about it all really rankled. 3w
CatLass007 I completely agree with @IndoorDame! Holmes is a creature of his time, and I suspect Conan Doyle was as much of a misogynist as his creation. But I sometimes wonder if the term misanthrope would be a more apt description. Holmes is extremely condescending to his male clients and even his supposed friend Dr. John Watson. Did anyone else notice that all the female clients and/or suspects are named “Mary”? 3w
BeeCurious Shame on Holmes for judging Mary as having a vacuous face and then not telling Mary who the perpetrator was. How is she to protect herself? It seems Homes just took the case for his own self- gratification. 3w
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Librarybelle I completely agree with @IndoorDame - I enjoyed the fiction but the brush off of Mary and the unwillingness to share his findings is disappointing, though not out of character. Dare I say that I figured out the mystery/solution and I am - gasp - a woman!! Interesting thought, @CatLass007 - I had not thought of that! 3w
CatLass007 @BeeCurious You‘re quite right. @Librarybelle What exactly had you not thought of? The misogyny, the misanthropy? All the above? 3w
Librarybelle @CatLass007 Sorry - the use of Mary for the clients and suspects 3w
CatLass007 @Librarybelle Even Watson‘s wife is named Mary, right. Of course, initially she was a client. Irene Adler is the only character we‘ve met so far which Conan Doyle seems to have used any imagination in choosing a name. Wait, if we were still in college, which I most definitely am not, this could make a fun drinking game. Every time a character named Mary shows up or is even mentioned, everyone drinks!🍷🤪 3w
dabbe I can't help but be reminded that it is Watson who is writing this (supposedly). So, it's also him who is showing his misogynistic thoughts as well. Plus, a 1st-person narrator is never completely reliable, so how much of these damning words against women are Sherlock's? Or are they Watson's? Or both? 3w
CogsOfEncouragement Some people change the system and some maneuver the best they can within it. Women don‘t have a lot of rights at this time. Holmes and Watson live within these laws. I feel like Doyle told stories that got people thinking about how someone like that stepfather should be prosecuted but he actually broke no law at that time. 3w
kelli7990 Yeah. I feel like it was satisfying. 3w
Read4life Good point, @dabbe Definitely something to think about. 3w
dabbe @Read4life 🤩😃😍 3w
Aimeesue I found it satisfying, though I‘m irate at mom for going along with scamming her own daughter. Mary, you need to be more suspicious! 3w
BeeCurious @Cuilin Thank you for posting these thought provoking questions. 3w
Cuilin @BeeCurious you‘re welcome, apologies for lack of responses as I was at a memorial service and with family but hope to respond today. 3w
Cuilin @IndoorDame agree, for Sherlock solving the riddle comes before caring for the client. 3w
Cuilin @CatLass007 yes, for Sherlock the puzzle, case always comes first. 3w
Cuilin @Librarybelle yes , me a woman figured it out too!! Shocking 😮 3w
Cuilin @dabbe good point but they‘re definitely Doyle‘s and of their time. 3w
Cuilin @Aimeesue oh that was infuriating!! No Mom awards there. 3w
Cuilin @CogsOfEncouragement I asked my husband (prosecutor) what would happen today? He said they could be charged with conspiracy to defraud. 3w
IndoorDame @Aimeesue couldn‘t agree more!!!! 3w
IndoorDame @dabbe such a good point! I‘ve been thinking a lot about Doyle‘s POV as the writer, but basically ignoring Watson‘s. I need to start considering his influence too! 3w
BeeCurious @cuilin I'm so sorry for your loss. There is no need to apologize either, as there are other things far more important than Litsy. We all appreciate the time and effort you and @dabbe have put into making this buddy read fun and interesting. I'm learning so much and am not certain if I would have even attempted to read all these #sherlocked stories on my own. 3w
CogsOfEncouragement @Cuilin Yes, so different today. Thankful for the fight the women before us took on to no longer just be property of their father or husband, to be able to vote, to serve on a jury, etc. Sherlock puts no blame on the mother, and I think we need to remember how limited her power was too. 3w
dabbe @Cuilin Most definitely. Sorry about your loss, too. 💚 3w
dabbe @IndoorDame 🤩😃😍 These 3 men: Sherlock, Watson, Doyle ... #oy! 😂 3w
31 likes27 comments
blurb
dabbe
A case of identity | Arthur Conan Doyle
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#FirstLineFridays
@ShyBookOwl

“ 'My dear fellow,' said Sherlock Holmes as we sat on either side of the fire in his lodgings at Baker Street, 'life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind could invent.' “

mabell ❤️ 2w
dabbe @mabell 💚💙💚 2w
44 likes2 comments
review
Read4life
A Case of Identity | Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, P. James Macaluso
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Pickpick

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes discussion on Saturday. I‘ll keep my thoughts to myself until then. But, it is another pick.
#BookSpinBingo #readyourebooks #readyourTBR #ReadAway2024 #SeriesLove2024

TheSpineView 👍📖📚 3w
DieAReader 🥳Awesome!! 3w
Cuilin Fabulous, pick for me too. 3w
dabbe Yahoo! 🤩🤩🤩 3w
44 likes5 comments
blurb
dabbe
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#NoPlaceLikeHolmes
#winaprize
@Cuilin

Hi, Sherlockians!
We've been loving the discussion of THE SIGN OF FOUR so far! Please contribute when you get a chance!

Now, time to quiz your knowledge and maybe win the prize of the tagged book! The link is below:
https://bit.ly/49FiBJ6

CogsOfEncouragement Fun! Thanks for taking the time to put this together. 1mo
dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement You're welcome! 🩷💜❤️ 1mo
CrystalE02 Thank you !!! This is fun!!! 1mo
dabbe @CrystalE02 💙🩶💙 1mo
46 likes4 comments
review
451Degrees
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Pickpick

Sequel to The Lost World. Journalist Edward Malone is requested to attend the South America expedition anniversary by Professor Challenger. However scientists have discovered Earth is going to intercept a poisonous belt of ether in space! Will the expedition team and the world be able to survive the poison or is it doomsday?!

jewright I loved both of these books! 2mo
451Degrees @jewright right!! I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed reading these😊 2mo
25 likes2 comments
blurb
dabbe
The Coming of the Fairies | Arthur Conan Doyle
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#NewYearNewBooks
#Fairies
@Eggs
@Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks

As a #sherlocked fanatic, I revere the original canon by C-Doyle. His belief and essay on fairies? #notsomuch #alittlecraycray

Bookwomble Doyle was sensible in not grafting his spiritualist beliefs onto the logical and materialist Holmes ("No ghosts need apply."), but his Professor Challenger stories did become a platform for them. The tagged biography is an interesting one in explaining how Doyle, the medical man of science, became an uncritical believer in the spirit world. 3mo
Eggs 🖤🧚🏻‍♀️💛 3mo
rubyslippersreads I‘ve never read this, but I love the movie about it (FairyTale). I also read a rather interesting novel: 3mo
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dabbe @Bookwomble I'll have to look deeper! Thanks for the rec! 🤩😍😃 3mo
dabbe @rubyslippersreads Another book to explore! Thanks for the rec! 🤩😍😃 3mo
dabbe @Eggs 🖤💜🖤 3mo
52 likes6 comments
review
Bookwomble
The Annotated Sherlock Holmes Vol II. | Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
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Pickpick

Well, it took me the best part of the year to finish this 824-page monster, but here it is, completed!
Not much, really, that I can say about Holmes and Watson that hasn't been said. They're firm favourites, and I finish this reading feeling somewhat sad to have done so.
This particular 2-volume collection is annotated for the mid-20th century USA reader, explaining some of the eccentricities of Victorian/Edwardian English culture, but mainly ⬇️

Bookwomble ... very, very concerned with establishing the exact in-story dates of the adventures, with reference not only to the calendar, but also considering weather, lunar, political and historical information. This is either dull as ditch water or of enormous fascination, depending on your degree of interest. I'll leave it to you, perspicacious reader, to deduce into which category I fall 🔎📖 🧐 3mo
AnnR 😁👍 3mo
dabbe Hmmm, I wonder. 🤔🤩😍 3mo
Graywacke Cool. Congrats! 3mo
33 likes4 comments
quote
Bookwomble
The Annotated Sherlock Holmes Vol II. | Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
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“I am an omnivorous reader with a strangely retentive memory for trifles.”

- The Adventure of the Lion's Mane