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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

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It‘s not that I enjoyed this so much or how it works with the jammed together mixture of gore/shock gamed with concerns of calculation vs mistakes, it‘s what it says about art in relation to our finicky sense of what‘s ok. This macabre can do the magic, can work. We can laugh at it, our fascination thoroughly dominating over our sense of need for decency. But have to wonder about our programming.

Thank you #shakespearereadalong

GingerAntics We did end up being pretty twisted, didn‘t we? Interesting idea about our programming. 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics Been trying to process this one. First I thought, leave your decency at the door. But then I thought why? And do we? Anyway, curious how entertaining it became (well, for lots of us) 4y

quirkyreader It‘s Splatter punk Shakespearean style. 4y

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GingerAntics “Leave your decency at the door” sounds perfect. 🤣 That was pretty much as entertaining as the play it self. We wanted to watch the body count rise and see the sometimes creative ways people died or were disposed of. I think a lot of us really were exploring the darker sides of ourselves, the part our morality would never let us actually act out. 4y

Graywacke @quirkyreader 😇🙂😁 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics oh my, are we so deranged? 😳🙂 There is definitely something going in us when we read it... 4y

GingerAntics I don‘t think we‘re really deranged. Apparently, psychologically it‘s quite healthy to express our dark sides in this way as opposed to hurting people or killing people. We‘re all perfectly healthy. I think. 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics i like that perspective 4y

GingerAntics Right? It makes you feel a little better about enjoying this play and even horror movies. It makes sense if everyone has a dark side, but not every one does bad things. There are other outlets that are socially acceptable and healthy. I guess my sometimes dark sense of humour isn‘t so bad after all. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 4y

batsy @Graywacke @GingerAntics I like to think this is what art is for. Better in art than than in life! Though just finished the #BunnyRead of tagged book and this novel definitely asks questions about the distinction between art/life and imagination/reality

Bunny: A Novel

GingerAntics @batsy I can‘t decide if that book sounds good or terrifying. 4y

Graywacke @batsy @GingerAntics honestly, it forces me to rethink art a bit. I understand it as expression, but this is more about getting the viewer to experience this in a manner, an psychological exercise. Of course, that‘s part of what art has always done - but I would have put it differently before this. This is, I think, an argument for the art of Stephen King (who I have tried to read but cannot...) 4y

Graywacke @batsy ( @GingerAntics ) I saw a bunch of posts in the Bunny read. I don‘t know anything about the book. Is this a recommendation? Should i check it out? 4y

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batsy

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

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Mad, bad, & dangerous. It's probably wrong to say I enjoyed a play this spattered in blood, what with the rape, mutilation, & murders that take place, not to mention the racism, xenophobia, & misogyny that underlie all of it. Yet I did. A revenge tragedy that maybe plays with the tropes & excesses of the genre. Dark humour. The hypocrisies of law & honour in Roman society still live on in modern toxic ideas of patriarchy, property, & nationhood.

batsy #ShakespeareReadAlong @Graywacke 4y

Tanisha_A Picture 😍 4y

Cathythoughts Great review & picture ❤️ 4y

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twohectobooks I agree that it feels weird to say this one is fun but I think it is deliberately over the top and darkly funny. 4y

erzascarletbookgasm You described it very well. I‘m surprised I enjoyed it too. 4y

Graywacke Great post. You have it all in there. Good fun, but goodness, now where‘s my psychologist? 🙂 4y

Freespirit Sounds like it has a bit of everything!! 4y

batsy @Tanisha_A @Cathythoughts 😘😘 4y

batsy @twohectobooks Yes, I agree! 4y

batsy @erzascarletbookgasm @Graywacke Thanks! 🙂 We all need a session with the therapist after that one. 4y

batsy @Freespirit A little bit of everything dark and bad and awful, yes 😅 Still, a very good read! 4y

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erzascarletbookgasm

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

pick

This has lots of dark stuff - violent deaths, rape, mutilation, cannibalism, honour killing. Loads of violence as the characters were caught in a bloody cycle of revenge. It‘s crazy how much blood is spilled yet fascinating to read on. One character seems conveniently cast as the villain, but the play was ‘entertaining‘ to the edge of grotesque comedy. Always interesting & helpful to read along & discuss with the #shakespearereadalong group.

erzascarletbookgasm Thanks for the witty teasers and discussion posts @Graywacke 4y

Cinfhen Great review ❤️ 4y

erzascarletbookgasm @Cinfhen thanks 😘 4y

batsy Great review 👏🏽 An intriguing read! 4y

Graywacke @erzascarletbookgasm Great review and discussion (teasers were fun 🙂) 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

Titus Act V
#shakespearereadalong

Bodies, pies, killing the rape victim for honor (!), anthropomorphic ideas meant to be taken as true (or an elaborate offer of hostages?), and a moor giving line to racism assumptions. What could TS Eliot have meant? Did he just lack a sense of humor? Also, was Aaron a hero, saving his baby? Also a 100 other questions, concerns, etc. What did you make of this feast and play? “Come, come, be everyone officious”

Graywacke @readinginthedark @Lcsmcat @batsy @TheBookHippie @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Gezemice @jewright @Cuilin @mollyrotondo @Melismatic @Sace @Liz_M @MoonWitch94 @Sunraven @Trashcanman @IamIamIam @ladyneverwhere @erzascarletbookgasm @catebutler @CoffeeNBooks @Daisey @saresmoore @rabbitprincess @IndoorDame @Mtroiano @mhillis @kathedron @MrsMalaprop @readordierachel @teainthelibrary 4y

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @merelybookish @AllisonM89 @LitStephanie 4y

erzascarletbookgasm I was caught by surprise Titus killed Lavinia! 4y

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Lcsmcat I didn‘t find the language as memorable in this one as in other plays, and the violence bothered me. Can‘t say that I liked it. 4y

Daisey @erzascarletbookgasm I was surprised by this as well, especially after so much time had passed. 4y

batsy The part where Titus pretends to fall for Tamora and sons' act and then fulfills the tropes of a revenge tragedy by doing what the plot of a revenge tragedy requires of him makes me feel like this is a commentary on the genre. All of that violence and racism and misogyny is excessive, but the systems that underlie it... Patriarchy, property, nationhood are built on those codes of violence. 4y

erzascarletbookgasm And Whew! What a bloodbath. So it turns out Titus was not mad after all. 4y

GingerAntics This last act sure was a trip. I‘m with @erzascarletbookgasm the word bloodbath comes to mind. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa This review on Goodreads is so funny and accurate! I love her abridged version! https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/220420627 (edited) 4y

Graywacke @erzascarletbookgasm @Daisey caught me off guard too. (After so much brain recalibrating, killing Lavinia just confused all my sense. Had to let sense go... although the reasoning should raise some hackles) 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I‘ve wondered what to make of the language too. It‘s not like he wrote it in his sleep. It‘s carefully composed. Was it really less or what it pushed into the background? (Any chance it was intentionally kind of tied back?) 4y

Graywacke @batsy Wasn‘t it you who mentioned he seems to be playing around? Anyway, this idea of the play as a commentary makes perfect sense. (Like Ovid with the Centaurs and Lapiths - finally directly referenced in this act) 4y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa that was brilliant. Thanks for the link. 4y

Graywacke @erzascarletbookgasm @GingerAntics bloodbath and trip are both relevant! 😳🙂 4y

Graywacke Full disclosure, i liked it...a lot. It‘s a clean tight plot. It‘s full of wild crazy edgy out there stuff and yet it still all fits together. It‘s awful and crazy offensive (which is worse, the misogyny or the racism?), but somehow in a fun way. (Should i go check in with some appropriate psychiatric ward?) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I think he just wasn‘t up to his full potential yet. Isn‘t this an early play? 4y

Melismatic I actually enjoyed this quite a bit - perhaps because it was so bloody it bordered on cartoony. It often reminded me of Sweeney Todd - esp this last act. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat somewhere I found 1591 and wrote it down, but I didn‘t note the source. But anyway it‘s definitely considered one of his earlier plays. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @erzascarletbookgasm All I could think was... honor killing, but I had to let her live long enough to let her know I‘d avenged her properly, but now that it‘s complete.... 🤷‍♀️ 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @batsy Very true. It definitely exemplifies the violence built into the system...and really all the way from scene 1. Titus son eventually finds common ground with the Goths (which means they really had common ground), but the whole play started with sons on both sides dying for the honor of conquest. Then honor of the god‘s, honor of empire/emperor, honor of family, womanhood and chastity, honor of fidelity, etc, etc, etc.... 1 vicious spiral 4y

Cuilin I really enjoyed this play. I loved the pared back language which I think is intentional, as it allows the violence and brutality of the plot to stand out. I always think Shakespeares most remarkable quotes use the most basic words, “to be or not to be' comes to mind. This was an early play so its was interesting to see some plot devices being “tested“, again Hamlet comes to mind, as in “if this be madness there is method in it“. 4y

LitStephanie Aaron is not a hero . . . I posted something about this being a great example of evolutionary psychology. He is protecting his genes, no more. 4y

LitStephanie On Aaron protecting his offspring, I think it is interesting that Titus murdered two of his own children. Makes his ideas about honor seem unnatural. Tamora and Aaron looked after their own blood. 4y

merelybookish Ugh. I'm with @Lcsmcat and TS Eliot. Im struggling to even finish it. Horror of any kind isn't my jam, even when it's written by Shakespeare. But I appreciate reading all the nuanced and insightful comments on it! 4y

batsy @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Yes, a vicious spiral! Good way to put it. That's what I was thinking about as I read this. The legacy of the system of honour and statehood and patriarchy... A neverending circle. 4y

batsy @Graywacke @Cuilin I "enjoyed" it, too! It worked, as a play. The violence and the farce. 4y

mollyrotondo I really enjoyed this one. I think it has a lot going on but it‘s very entertaining. I have so many different thoughts. Like how Titus was a Roman soldier for 40 years and fought for Rome‘s honor, and this is how he is repaid. Yeah sure the Goths wanted revenge on him, but his own Roman emperor did not treat him fairly either. Then there is the whole barbarism theme. Everyone is barbaric. Even new leader Lucius sides with both Rome and the ⬇️ 4y

mollyrotondo ...Goths so how much better off are the people at the end of this tragedy. Every character is complicated and no one is really in the right. Except maybe Lavinia. 4y

mollyrotondo I watched the Anthony Hopkins “Titus” and thought it was phenomenal! Some choices were odd but I really loved it overall. It was soooo hard to find though. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke that‘s the perfect way to put it. This play was a trip and a bloodbath, but it was FUN!!! 4y

Graywacke @Melismatic “bordered in cartoony” - it is just me or is it a little tricky to find the right word for this play. Gory and dreadful but with an amusing comic aspect. Anyway glad you enjoyed. (ETA just @GingerAntics comment. Maybe trip and bloodbath works 🙂...) (edited) 4y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @batsy is it a kind of spoof on honor, a social criticism in light of English honor? (edited) 4y

Graywacke @Cuilin there does seem to be some Hamlet in it. I imagine if Hamlet himself were here he would step back and comment on the terrible big picture (then delay a tragic bit, of course) then plunge back in the cycle of violence. 🙂 I‘m with you on the language (and enjoy the quotes). 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie i have lots of thoughts on Aaron. I‘ve become an admirer. But, great observation about Tamora/Aaron vs Titus with offspring. Is it part of the honor criticism? Tamora and Aaron are not Roman and can calculate without worrying about honor. Titus kills two of his own children himself just for honor. Anyway, interesting. 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish Echoing you, this has been a terrific series of conversations, really wonderful and makes this whole experience so much more rewarding. These plays are lonely without dialogue. And appreciate the different views, including yours, which always make me feel guilty for enjoying. 🙂☺️ 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo loyalty gets you nothing in politics once your not useful anymore. Echoes American life-long civil servants cast out these last 3.5 yrs. I‘m excited by your thoughts on the movie. I would like to hunt it down (but I think I would have to watch when no one was around) 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics i feel the same. Somehow it was all caps FUN. 🙂@batsy glad you enjoyed it too. 4y

mollyrotondo @Graywacke hahaha my mom watched it under duress with me. So I understand no one else wanting to watch it with you. But she ended up liking it and she doesn‘t really like Shakespeare. I am glad I own it now because it‘s a movie I‘d watch again. 4y

Graywacke My thoughts on Aaron: he‘s calculating the entire play until Act V when suddenly he says he‘s evil just be evil and merely wishes he could do more evil. That feels really out of character. He doesn‘t, on the surface, need to say all that to save his child. He just has to trade the dark secrets. So what keeps him talking? And why suddenly is he acting the social caricature when he‘s been himself unique till then? My take is ... (edited) 4y

Graywacke ...he‘s playing for the baby‘s life always in Act V. Something about what he says has a purpose. Maybe it‘s a distraction from his crimes? Maybe a distraction from how unnecessary his information really is? Maybe something else. From the baby‘s perspective his actions are pretty amazing. ( @LitStephanie this is partially a response to you and the hero/not hero thinking ) (edited) 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo 😆 you have an awesome tolerant mom. My parents - no no no. Not even when they were younger and sharper. 🙂 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke Aaron is a real piece of work, that‘s for sure. 4y

jewright @erzascarletbookgasm I had to reread the part where Titus kills Lavinia! It was so sudden. That part made me so sad. If he was going to do that, why did he wait so long? (edited) 4y

jewright This play seems more like a combination of Sophocles and Shakespeare to me. The crazy amount of blood reminds me of a Greek tragedy. I found the play fascinating though and more what I expect from Shakespeare. I definitely couldn‘t stop thinking of Sweeney Todd. (edited) 4y

MoonWitch94 @jewright I totally agree! I thought I initially missed something bc it was so sudden. 4y

batsy @Graywacke Aaron is a tough one. That's an interesting reflection about continuing to want to protect his child (and lineage). I was also thinking of Aaron as an embodiment of rage. Like evilness is already ascribed to him because of skin colour, so he's going to embody that against those that believe the worst of him. A kind of f-you to the world. (Extreme to the point of absurdity perhaps, but that's the kind of play this is...) 4y

batsy @mollyrotondo Barbarism really runs deep in every level, even in societies supposedly congratulating themselves on their rule of law and honour! I did feel like Shakespeare was hammering that point home. 4y

LitStephanie @Graywacke Tamora was referred to as a lioness and I would have to read it again but I bet some of the racist talk about Aaron was animalistic as well. Animals (to the 16th century mind) will kill any of their own except their offspring and current mate, so it might be part of that theme. 4y

LitStephanie @mollyrotondo now I want to find that movie! Was it modernized or period? 4y

erzascarletbookgasm @jewright @MoonWitch94 I didn‘t understand the waiting part either. 4y

erzascarletbookgasm @LitStephanie Lucius did call Aaron ‘ravenous tiger‘. Aaron and Tamora are referred to as animals because they are ‘foreigners‘ not Romans 🤷‍♀️ 4y

MoonWitch94 @erzascarletbookgasm yes, very confusing 4y

mollyrotondo @LitStephanie it was a combination. It‘s Shakespeare language and takes place in an Ancient Rome that has modern-ish clothing and jazz music. It‘s very stylized. 4y

LitStephanie Hey, what's next? 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie Merchant of Venice Aug 30 is next. @GingerAntics is leading. Apologies, you weren‘t on our “master” list. I tagged you on the relevant post. 4y

LitStephanie @Graywacke it's OK. I've never been an A-list kind of person. 🤣 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie 😂 4y

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batsy

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

It's getting loud in this house 🗡️

#ShakespeareReadAlong @Graywacke

Graywacke Fine commentary 😳🙂 4y

merelybookish 🤣👏 4y

Ruthiella 🤣🤣🤣 4y

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LeahBergen 😂😂 4y

Tanisha_A Yep 😂 4y

RohitSawant 🤣🤣 4y

aperi 😁 4y

Lcsmcat My reaction exactly! 4y

Reggie Iololol 4y

Centique I endorse this marginalia! 🙌 4y

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Titus Andronicus (Revised) | William Shakespeare

Visual representation of the body count throughout the play.
#Shakespeare #TitusAndronicus #shakespearereadalong

Graywacke @GingerAntics This is awesome. 4y

Branwen I love that you did this! 😁 4y

batsy 💀 4y

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Titus Andronicus (Revised) | William Shakespeare

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This was supposed to be the goriest Shakespeare play. The gore grows very slowly until the death toll skyrockets in the final act. Fun is had by all (who read it, not the characters). This play a certainly an exploration of the reader‘s darker side.
#Shakespeare #TitusAndronicus #shakespearereadalong
I‘ve included the final body count, and a lovey visual of the action of the play.

Graywacke That graph! ❤️ 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

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I finished the final act tonight, and the death count went up appropriately for a tragedy. I wasn‘t surprised by much in this act except one murder by Titus and felt most of the payback was earned. I enjoyed this play much more than I expected, although again the reading together and discussing always helps.

#ShakespeareReadalong #ArkAngelShakespeare

LitStephanie I enjoyed it more than I expected to. There aren't any great speeches or amazing insights into the human condition here, but it certainly has plenty of action. Given how accessible this one is, I am surprised it isn't performed more. 4y

LitStephanie Ugg, "too" not "to!" (It is 4:45 am here) 4y

Daisey @LitStephanie I think you make a good point about it being accessible. I didn‘t find any aspect of this one as confusing as some other plays. Although it has allusions to Greek myth, knowing them is not necessary to following the story. 4y

Lcsmcat I‘m with you on that one murder. Not that I liked Titus before, but that was the final straw! 4y

Daisey @Lcsmcat Yes, so much time had passed since the attack that I never expected this murder. 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

Act 5: Lucius raised an army of Goths, who were recently defeated by Rome, to topple Rome's emperor. Although their former queen was empress of Rome, they never much liked her anyway and are eager to get revenge on her and Rome. No battle needed as their targets were murdered at parley. I am sure everything will be fine--surely those Goths will happily march home with no pillaging or booty. Gratitude is payment enough for them. 🤔🤣

LitStephanie #shakespearereadalong 4y

Graywacke 🙂 4y

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Titus Andronicus (Revised) | William Shakespeare

🎉🥳🎉THE DEATH TOLL RISES!!!🎉🥳🎉
🔪⚔️🗡🔪🔪🥧🍴⚔️⚔️
A good time was had by all...well, most...okay, not many of the characters, but I share enjoyed it. The one character I felt should have ended up the only one alive, sadly, died, but what can you do? It‘s a tragedy after all.
#Shakespeare #TitusAndronicus #shakespearereadalong

TheBookHippie, Graywacke

GingerAntics So it goes. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 4y

Graywacke So many V‘s 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke right? Isn‘t it great?! 😏 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics 😂 ... 🙈... ☺️... 😇 ⚔️ 🩸 4y

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Titus Andronicus (Revised) | William Shakespeare

This post contains spoilers

show me

@TheBookHippie
I totally forgot that Titus bakes Tamora‘s sons into a pie and makes her eat it. That‘s right. The pie!!! 🤣😂🤣
🔪🔪🥧

TheBookHippie 👩🏽‍🍳😬😂 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie at least everyone else seems to think he‘s gone a step too far with that one. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics RIGHT?! Ha. This was a good one. Welcome to the dark side all of us 😇😂 4y

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GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I think we needed this one among the pandemic and everything. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I agree! Is merchant of Venice next ? 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie yes...I think I‘m leading that one. I have to go review the emails. 🤣😂🤣 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

Titus Andronicus Act V - Sunday
Bon Appétit!

#shakespearereadalong

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @merelybookish @AllisonM89 @LitStephanie 4y

TheBookHippie 😂😂😂😂😂🔪🥧 4y

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LitStephanie I don't even want to know . . . But guess I will soon find out! 4y

batsy 💀🙈 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie oh...oh... not saying anything...else... 🤐 ☺️ 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie @batsy 🙂 4y

merelybookish Ah yes, the unforgettable scene. 😳 4y

Lcsmcat 🤢 4y

jewright I‘m nervous about this. I‘m guessing we‘re having some sort of Sweeney Todd moment, but I don‘t know exactly what to expect. 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish @Lcsmcat yes - to both comments. 4y

Graywacke @jewright i had to look up Sweeney Todd. ☺️ 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke And about time you did! How can one grow to adulthood without knowing about Sweeney Todd? 😂 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat oh, the vast amount of common knowledge things I don‘t know ...😔 (or worse, forgot 😟) 4y

jewright @Graywacke Next time you‘re in the mood for gore, you know what to read or watch. 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

Act 4: Aaron holds a cute little bundle of his genes, and although he is a casual and pitiless murderer, he won't let anyone harm said little bundle. Good on Shakespeare for understanding some evolutionary psychology four centuries before it was developed. 🤣
#shakespearereadalong

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

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What a crazy web we weave when we plot revenge! This play was a mix of unspeakable violence & an almost Monty Pythons take on death & dismemberment, and I could not stop reading. I will admit, I was a bit disappointed by the final resolution, and the stereotypical bad guy (uh racism, alive & well since before Shakespeare), but if you liked the often bloody twists & turns of fortune in Game of Thrones, you‘ll probably enjoy this play.

Riveted_Reader_Melissa #ShakespeareReadAlong (edited) 4y

GingerAntics THAT‘S WHAT IT IS!!! Monty Python is a great way to describe it. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @GingerAntics I can‘t take credit, it was mentioned by someone else in one of our discussions, but as soon as I read it my reaction was the same as yours. That‘s IT! 4y

GingerAntics Who do we call to get monty python to do a production of this, I wonder? 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @GingerAntics I don‘t know...but it would be brilliant! 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

I listened to Act IV with breakfast and appreciated it more than Act III. Apparently Aaron‘s only sympathy is for blood relatives and Lavinia finally gets a chance to share what she knows. It seems this is still quite a bit of build up and there is a lot to happen in the final act.

#ShakespeareReadalong #BookAndBreakfast

Lcsmcat Even with all the violent acts it does still feel a bit like it‘s waiting to happen, doesn‘t it? 4y

Daisey @Lcsmcat Yes! In this one especially, I felt like I was waiting for more to happen! I‘m not sure I‘ll be able to wait for next weekend to finish listening. 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

#shakespearereadalong
Titus Act IV

And again, just for a moment Aaron flickers a conscience, then does in a nurse and condemns a midwife. Strange bloodline morality. Also, Lavinia writes of her rapists, Titus shoots at the stars, and sends a few messages to the emperor‘s house. Also Ovid plays a prominent role and a few choice lines sneak in there. Where are we going next? Thoughts?

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @merelybookish @AllisonM89 @LitStephanie 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa It was a crazy act, but honestly I expected it to be by this point....and in that sense it was tamer than some of the other acts have been. Only the murder of a few side characters we just met, no rapes or dismemberments, Aaron is off his game in this act. 🙄😂 4y

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Lcsmcat @Riveted_Reader_Melissa The calm before the storm, maybe? Or the eye of the hurricane? 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Lcsmcat I read ahead, and yep that‘s it! 4y

batsy So much going on here but Tamora's "evil" duplicity is so well-oiled and efficient, it made me laugh. So I get the sense that Shakespeare is having a bit of fun with this one, even if it's not to everyone's taste. The racism is also astounding, though how Aaron counters it—"Coal-black is better than another hue..." is vivid and intriguing and probably the bit that I found most arresting in this act. 4y

GingerAntics I‘m really hoping this is the calm before the storm. As of right now, this really doesn‘t have any higher body count than any other tragedy. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 4y

Melismatic Aaron was my favorite part of this act, altho Young Lucius‘s asides were pretty biting too. 4y

TheBookHippie @batsy I agree Shakespeare is having a bit of fun. The racism is abhorrent. Yikes. I assume we‘re in the eye of the hurricane as well. I have to say I still love it I look forward to reading my section and the biting wit (?) reminds me of dinner with the in-laws back in the day 😱😅 no body count though . 🤣 4y

Cuilin I‘m still loving it!! So we all know what‘s around the corner. Bring it on. I told my daughter the plot line and she shook her head saying I thought you hate horrors. Aaron has some amazing lines, his reply to Chiron‘s Thou hast undone our mother, he says “Villain, I have done thy mother” 😆Also “there‘s the privilege your beauty bears”. (edited) 4y

LitStephanie Aaron does bring a bit of humor to the act when he shows his contempt for the vanity and stupidity of Chiron and Demetrius. You get the feeling he'd betray anyone to further his ambition. I am curious to see if his admiration of Tamora's diabolical plotting and ruthless pursuit of power rises to actual love. I can't wait to see if one of them throws the other under the bus. 4y

Graywacke Apologies for some neglect today. Just got home from a family vacation. Anyway, Aaron‘s commentary over his baby (and that line @Cuilin 🙂) struck me. He was so...what‘s the word? Not admirable, but at least sympathetic for a moment there. And, it‘s interesting this “between” act has so many children. Four scenes, and a baby and a very young child are prominent in two. And Act 3 introduces Marcus‘s grown son. Of course, blood lines. But also... 4y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Lcsmcat calm is relative 🙂 But I guess you have to spend a moment on pacing between severing limbs. But also - poor nurse. 4y

Graywacke @batsy Tamora was really smooth. Her “gloze”. I was thinking Shakespeare was having fun when Titus put his severed 🖐 in Lavinia‘s teeth! 🤢 What‘s he doing here? He‘s messing with us. 😐 4y

Lcsmcat @Cuilin That line of Aaron‘s was the only time I have laughed in this play! 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Yes, poor nurse! 4y

Graywacke @batsy @TheBookHippie the racism is striking. Shakespeare gives Aaron his say, but he forgot to tell Aaron an entire race was resting on his shoulders. The moor has bigger fish to fry. What would Kendi say? I do at least appreciate that Aaron‘s crimes are calculated for the moment, that he is his own unique person. Hard to generalize him. 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics need some ⚔️ and 🩸!! 😆 Lear and Hamlet are shrugging their shoulders. 4y

Graywacke @Melismatic I‘m with you on Aaron! Lucius would be a fun role to play, I imagine. 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie I‘m, um, sorry about your in-laws. (Amazing the unnecessary tension that can generate... 😶) Glad you‘re enjoying. As @Riveted_Reader_Melissa hinted, think something even more extreme is coming. Have to have a good dramatic climax! 4y

mollyrotondo Did we know that Tamora was pregnant before this Act? I was shocked at this part because I didn‘t even know she was pregnant. I also thought it was interesting that everyone was frustrated by Titus talking so much in earlier Acts, but words are proving his strongest weapon against the emperor since he‘s literally starting this war with words on arrows shot over to the emperor. It‘s pretty brilliant. 4y

Graywacke @Cuilin your daughter nailed it. Sounds like a fun conversation. As for Aaron...well... 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie I wonder about their love - Tamora and Aaron. They‘re both so calculating and quick to discard lives. Are they just using each other? I enjoyed Aaron messing the brothers too, seeing what they aren‘t getting. 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo I was wondering if we‘re supposed to imagine some time has passed, that Tamora‘s pregnancy - well, it must be at least 9 months after Acts 1, the marriage. And acts 1-2 are 1 day apart. Act 3 could be close afterwards. So, actually it must mean that. 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo i admit I couldn‘t exactly follow all Titus‘s logic. Why send these messages at all - they‘re warnings. But whatever he‘s doing, it seems to have worked. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke exactly!!! Now I want to keep a body count for all the tragedies. 🤣😂🤣 4y

LitStephanie @mollyrotondo I was also surprised that around nine months is supposed to have passed since the first act. That explains how Lavinia has healed enough to use her stumps to handle books. And it means for months no one has bothered to try and communicate with Lavinia via yes or no questions and nods or headshakes, LOL! 4y

37 likes27 comments

Titus Andronicus (Revised) | William Shakespeare

A little disappointed in the still rather small body count. I thought this book was supposed to be so bloody. The only truly bloody bit was poor Lavinia (who did manage to name her killers in act IV).
#Shakespeare #TitusAndronicus #shakespearereadalong
@Graywacke

Graywacke Could add a nurse too. 🗡 🙂 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke did Aaron kill the nurse? I have to go double check now. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke whoops, forgot the nurse. I guess I got distracted by the racial politics at play there. Still, I was expecting more than 7 bodies by this point. 4y

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Graywacke @GingerAntics racial politics...yeah, oye! (Not to mention blood line morality) Looks better now. 😉 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke right? Tamora already lost two sons in this play. Something tells me many heads would roll should she lose another. Perhaps killing the nurse saved many more lives. 4y

batsy @Graywacke 😂💀 4y

Lcsmcat I don‘t think anything in this play is about saving lives. 😀 4y

GingerAntics @Lcsmcat maybe that‘s why Aaron left in act IV. It‘s not the okay, but Aaron who was trying to save his son‘s life. 4y

Lcsmcat I think he wants to save his son to use him to gain power over Rome, so it‘snot about saving one life, but ending many - quote below 4y

Lcsmcat And secretly to greet the empress' friends. Come on, you thick lipp'd slave, I'll bear you hence; For it is you that puts us to our shifts: I'll make you feed on berries and on roots, And feed on curds and whey, and suck the goat, And cabin in a cave, and bring you up To be a warrior, and command a camp. 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

I made the mistake of starting Indian Killer while reading Titus. More butchery of humans than I am accustomed to reading about in one week! I had seriously forgotten what Indian Killer was about--it was just next on the shelf after I finished Song of Solomon. Good thing I have Pride and Prejudice with #pemberlittens to cheer me up!
#ShakespeareReadAlong

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Titus Andronicus (Revised) | William Shakespeare

🤣😂🤣
For @Graywacke who seems to have a twisted sense of humour similar to my own. 😏😏😏
#Shakespeare #TitusAndronicus #shakespearereadalong

Graywacke 🤣🤣🤣 ❤️... wait, should I embarrassed by this? ☺️🤔🙂 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke naaaa! 🤣😂🤣 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

“Bear thou my hand, sweet wench, between thy teeth”

Titus Act 3 #shakespearereadalong

There is gore, macabre and then there this act. Titus pleads to rocks for his sons‘ lives. When Aaron requests a 🖐 as ransom, there is a fight over who gets to offer one. (It‘s cut off on stage.) And when the 🖐 comes back with 👦🏻x2, Titus sets up a march displaying the bloody body parts. It‘s too much for Titus. For you too? Where are we? melodrama? Humor?

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @merelybookish @AllisonM89 @LitStephanie 4y

Lcsmcat Madness? 4y

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merelybookish Ha! Yes! @Lcsmcat This act made me so mad. SO ridiculous. Fighting over who would cut off their ✋.🙄 The complete idiocy of believing Aaron, like actually believing that cutting off his hand will make things okay. Meanwhile there's your mutilated daughter. Also all the interpretation of what Lavinia is thinking and feeling. Ugh, maybe someone will cut out Titus's tongue so we don't have to hear any more of his dumb speeches. Rant over. 😆 4y

Lcsmcat @merelybookish I was so frustrated with Titus declaring he knew Lavinia‘s thoughts! It would have been so easy to make up some system- shake your head for no, nod for yes - and find out what she actually knows/thinks. Sheesh! 4y

merelybookish @Lcsmcat That would require him to stop talking about himself for 2 minutes. 4y

batsy @Lcsmcat Definitely that. 4y

batsy @merelybookish @Lcsmcat It is alarming how conveniently Lavinia becomes a vessel for male thought/revenge/regret/melodrama and Aaron the Moor as representation of random viciousness. 4y

Melismatic @batsy nail on the (severed) head with that re: Lavinia 4y

Lcsmcat @merelybookish 😂 4y

Lcsmcat @batsy Agree about both Lavinia and Aaron! 4y

Melismatic I think this act felt like a tipping point toward the ridiculous - altho I‘m enjoying the absurdity of it all. The whole time I was thinking “nobody wants medical attention, huh? Just attention for a monologue? Kay.” 4y

batsy It's not "funny", but there's a savage humour to how Shakespeare depicts the melodrama the more brutal and ridiculous it becomes. At some point I wondered if the reality of what's shown (rape, maiming, murder, all fueled by what I can only describe as toxically-masculine governance) had to be depicted in this almost campily excessive way to underlie the fact that life is *in fact* brutal in that sense. And in 2020, none of that has gone away. 4y

batsy @Melismatic God, yes! "How has no one paused to pass out and get the treatment they require in order to continue talking" was a running thought in my mind ? 4y

merelybookish @Melismatic Yes, re: medical attention! Maybe Lavinia is crying because she's in so much physical pain!! 4y

Cuilin While I‘m thoroughly enjoying this, it is bordering on the absurd, which is probably the point. Could the violence, drama, rape, gore be devices in an allegory for the failings of Rome? 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish bravo! (1) They didn‘t even question whether ransom seemed reasonable. They‘re just giving out 🖐‘s like it‘s pocket change. (2) I‘m trying _not_ to imagine my rage were I listening to Titus. She should be thinking, “I can %#&@ nod! Just ask an intelligent question.” And - the bard makes it clear she‘s not, which - well, which might be the most infuriating part of play - which sounds extreme, considering. (edited) 4y

Cuilin @Batsy Yes. Like gallows humor. I thought this too. I also noticed how clean and,dare I say it for Shakespeare, how laconic the language actually is. 4y

Graywacke @batsy Lavinia and Aaron as objects for... yes to all that! 4y

batsy @Cuilin Yes, exactly. For all that was going on, the terrible excess of it, the language seemed pared down compared to the other plays. 4y

erzascarletbookgasm It‘s maddening how no one tried to intelligently ask Lavinia who did that to her..like @Lcsmcat and @Graywacke pointed out, she could easily nod or shake her head. 🤷‍♀️ 4y

Melismatic @erzascarletbookgasm maddening and also shockingly realistic bc throughout Lavinia is treated as a childlike trophy piece by everyone rather than a human being. She‘s assumed uncapable to make any decisions at all. That they‘re first thought is to ask her to speak when she has no hands and is bleeding from the mouth...like....bro. Care about your child! Lol 4y

erzascarletbookgasm Anyone wonders why Titus, a war general, was horrified or turned soft when Marcus killed a fly? Also, agree with what @batsy said about Aaron easily cast as the evil guy. 4y

merelybookish @batsy @Cuilin I would love to see this as intentional, that he meant to be campy or humourous but I'm not convinced. I mostly feel like Shakespeare is inexperienced at writing tragedy and hasn't found a way to depict horrible actions and nuanced characterization. To go back to Lear as a comparison, Lear is a naive idiot too but I never lose sympathy for him. I don't know...clearly this play gets under my skin. 😅 4y

batsy @erzascarletbookgasm Yup! I think that's the part where Marcus (and readers) start to wonder about Titus' mental state. 4y

erzascarletbookgasm I think it‘s too much that Titus got Lavinia to hold his cut off hand with her teeth! 4y

merelybookish @erzascarletbookgasm 😂 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @erzascarletbookgasm 😂 well he couldn‘t hold his hand and his son‘s head with only 1 hand! Really! 🙄😂. You‘d have thought the brother (with two hands) could have carried 2 things, how lazy is he! He just carried 1 head and had a perfectly good hand going to waste....maybe he needed it to open the doors for everyone or something. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa I agree with everyone above, but 2020 has been a surreal landscape where anything can and will happen, so I‘m (enjoying isn‘t the right word) maybe empathizing with this until recently on top of the world heroes of Rome group who suddenly can‘t have anything go right. And doesn‘t silent Lavinia just seem to be a good stand in for current issues...Chanel Miller (hey, you got raped, but it was the Emperor‘s brother so can‘t ruin his life).... (edited) 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish @batsy @Cuilin I think it‘s a type of humor. Each act so far he has one-upped himself on the macabre. The sacrifice, Titus‘s humiliation, killing his own son, the rape, framing. Then here the march of insane Titus with heads of his sons and his severed hand in the teeth of raped disfigured daughter - that to me is a touch on Monty Python and the black knight - gruesome ridiculous humor. (Ovid does this type of humor too) (edited) 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa ..Breonna Taylor (horrible things happened, but since you can‘t tell us about them in your own voice, doesn‘t count apparently), even all those Olympic Gymnasts that could talk, and tell and tell and tell, their own family‘s didn‘t believe them for years. Yea, I‘m feeling this play, the Greek Tragedy is depressing, yep, but I‘m waiting for the Shakespearean revenge! 4y

Graywacke @erzascarletbookgasm @merelybookish @Riveted_Reader_Melissa All this is actually funny. 🙂😳🙊🙈... 4y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa just to clarify, I meant the heads, not the contemporary references, which are infuriating. 4y

LitStephanie Titus has become weak and had a serious lapse in judgement at the beginning (refusing to take responsibility for Rome and be the leader the people wanted), and it seems he is now feeling the awful effects of that. I am curious to see if he at some point acknowledges his mistakes: (continued below) 4y

LitStephanie Handing over the role of emperor to someone less worthy, breaking his daughter's engagement and offering her to the new emperor to score political points, murdering his son, trusting Aaron, and maybe even the first vengeful act in the play of blood sacrificing Tamora's son. That would show growth and nudge him into tragic character territory rather than a melodramatic victim. 4y

Cuilin @Graywacke I agree with the Monty Python comment, this can also be found in Greek and Roman mythology. It‘s comedy dressed as tragedy. It holds a mirror up to the absurd and makes us question what we accept. 4y

mollyrotondo @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I definitely agree with you that this play speaks volumes today on the silencing women front. It is an over the top way of showing women‘s struggles when they are silenced. But I do not understand why Titus doesn‘t now go to the tribunal and say, “Hey you want to condemn my sons for a murder and you don‘t have much proof, but how about someone look into the rape and brutal disfigurement of my daughter, the wife of the man⬇️ 4y

mollyrotondo ...you think my sons killed.” I don‘t understand why he just stands there talking and talking to his brother when he should be talking to the tribune. And he wastes more time by trying to appease the Romans by cutting off his own hand??? How does this make sense Titus? If you believe Aaron was acting as a messenger you should have made Aaron take your to the tribune and present your daughter. Uhh Titus!!!!! 4y

TheBookHippie @Cuilin I agree. This is holding up a mirror to the absurdity of it all. Like do you realize what you say is acceptable behavior and treatment of women ? That it‘s expected?! 4y

TheBookHippie @erzascarletbookgasm I compare it to Hitler loving his dogs and crying when they died 🤢 4y

TheBookHippie It‘s very 2020 in the absurd plot ... I am enjoying it quite a bit. My immediate first thought was the Judith beheading of Holofernes painting and story ... 🤷🏽‍♀️ I was a dark kid. I studied it fascinated while in parochial school. I have to say it‘s all ridiculous I‘m still holding hope that‘s the point ...to show the horror it is and make the audience think. 4y

TheBookHippie @Melismatic RIGHT?? Unfortunately we can relate it to real life treatment of people in 2020... just astounding. 4y

GingerAntics This was a pretty bloody, over the top act, that‘s for sure. 4y

LitStephanie @erzascarletbookgasm the fly thing did seem a bit much. I think it said he has lost 21 sons in battle, then murdered another one, but somehow the beheading of two more and the maiming of a daughter has made him maudlin and mad. Maybe his children are more precious to him now since he has so few left, or maybe it's more the shame of losing his standing in society that has driven him over the edge. 4y

MoonWitch94 It‘s SO MUCH! Yet I just kept reading & reading & going “oh! OH! ohhhh!!!” Lol 😂 4y

Graywacke Let‘s see if I got this right:

Reasons to hate Titus A:
1. Rape, silencing of woman, talking for silenced woman
2. Extra macabre extra dramatic gore
3. Hero is dumb, kills own son, talks _for_ silences woman
4. Extra macabre extra dramatic gore
5. All characters are terrible people
6. Extra macabre extra dramatic gore
7. Racism

Reasons to like Titus A
8. See 2, 4 & 6 above (edited) 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish going back to your first comment, the rant - got 1 &3 above @Lcsmcat got 3, @batsy putting you down for 1 & 7 and then 2,4,6 @Melismatic 1, 2,4,6 &8 ?, Medical attention 3? @cuilin definitely 2,4,6,8 (allegory - needs more thought), @erzascarletbookgasm 1 & 3, @Riveted_Reader_Melissa definitely 8, 😂, then 1, @LitStephanie looks like 3 all the way (is T capable of growth?) @mollyrotondo 1&3 (and, not, it doesn‘t make sense) ... (edited) 4y

Melismatic @Graywacke Lololol 😂 4y

Graywacke @Melismatic I edited the comment a bit ☺️ 4y

Graywacke @Cuilin brings up the absurd, which might 8...or might be 2,4,6... @TheBookHippie def 8 (interesting about Judith. Re-Hitler and dogs - wait till act 4!), @GingerAntics ooh, i‘m indecisive 8-ish? or 2,4,6? @MoonWitch94 another 8 all the way! 4y

Graywacke Sorry, so many comments, i had to compress a bit. Since editing is weirs in Litsy, i‘m retagging @merelybookish @Lcsmcat @batsy @erzascarletbookgasm @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @LitStephanie 4y

Graywacke On a slightly more serious note, the absurdity and the allegory seem like they could use some follow up. Interesting in terms of 20th century philosophy and in terms of - well, the disgusting public gore in Elizabethan England. 4y

LitStephanie @Graywacke, I don't hate Titus Andronica. I just don't think it is going to be one of my favorites. 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie good to know. It‘s such an odd thing, all this gore. And what do make of the language within the absurdity? 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie and, of course, i was just having fun above. Hoping everyone only saw silly there. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke True, Shakespeare‘s time was pretty used to public gore....public beheadings in his time were pretty regular...King‘s beheading queens, queens beheading rivals....maybe there is some statement in here about how quickly fortune can turn, be careful who you behead in wrath today, because their relative may behead you tomorrow...and your prisoner could be your queen tomorrow and visa versa. (edited) 4y

jewright This play definitely reminds me more of the Greek type of tragedy. There‘s always lots of gore and death in those plays. 4y

GingerAntics I‘m voting 8!!! 🤣😂🤣 The rape and silencing women thing does tick me off, but I like this play. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I‘m with you 8... and yes considering our current leader I don‘t see much difference on that ..😩 4y

TheBookHippie @MoonWitch94 SAME!!! 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie 🤷🏼‍♀️ Maybe it‘s one of those things where because it‘s not real (or not totally real) we can revel in it a bit. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I am a tad worried about our sanity, however it‘s a wonderful diversion. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie no worries...it‘s perfectly normal...or so psychology tells us. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics 🤣 at least we aren‘t alone.. 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie nope!!! We‘re one twisted lot, all together!!! 🤣😂🤣 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie @GingerAntics 🙂 i‘m giving myself all 8, with surprising emphasis on #8. I think it helps that it‘s on stage in the 1590‘s and not, for example, in today‘s newspapers. 4y

LitStephanie @Graywacke I sm not sure what you mean when you ask about the language. Lots of images and references from Greek literature, but this is a play driven much more by action than dialogue. No memorable speeches so far. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke @TheBookHippie oh yeah. I completely agree that the reaction would be 100% different if it was headline news right now. Then we‘d all be disgusted and calling out whatever sick human being actually did all this stuff. Because we know it‘s just a play we can sort of revel in it, knowing it‘s not real. Even though this is based on real events, we don‘t know how much of the details are real either. 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie agree 100%. But...well, where was I going? A bit on a non sequitur. I guess I‘m to looking at Shakespeare through his use of language and it feels strange to not pay attention to it here. 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie on the references to Greek literature - Wonder how this play works if every character wears a mask like supposedly in classic Greek drama? 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics right. And we don‘t have to worry about all the crazy people around us today while reading/listening/watching either. These are 1590‘s issues. 🙂 (except too much always applies everywhere in all times 😕) 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke that does seem to always happen. These plays are 400+ years old, but they‘re still so relevant to today. 4y

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Titus Andronicus (Revised) | William Shakespeare

With revenge becoming a major theme in the play from here on out, especially for Titus, I have a feeling the body count is really going to jump next week.
#Shakespeare #TitusAndronicus #shakespearereadalong

KarouBlue Hahahahaha! Love this! 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics good stuff. Any temptation to add a body part count? ( a little complicated with Alarbus) (edited) 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke I never thought it would be necessary, but it might be here. We‘ve got what... four heads, three hands, and a tongue? 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics um 🤢 yeah. 👦🏻👦🏻👦🏻 👦🏻 🤚 🖐 🖐 👅. And Alarbus could add maybe two 💪s and two 🦵s... 😄 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke right. That‘s a tough call. Give me a minute. 4y

18 likes5 comments

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

I listened to Act III tonight because I don‘t think I will have enough time in the morning. I thought this was an especially interesting simile, but I wasn‘t necessarily impressed by the rest of the act. Just wondering why anyone in this play trusts anyone else about anything at this point. 🤷‍♀️ 🗡 Looking forward to tomorrow‘s discussion to see others‘ thoughts.

#ShakespeareReadalong

Lcsmcat Really! That not only Titus, but the other two also believed cutting off a hand would save the brothers? I wanted to shake some sense into them. (edited) 4y

LitStephanie It's like they have somehow avoided the realities of politics altogether up to this point despite Titus being a politically powerful general. What do they think all those wars were about, LOL? 4y

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Melismatic

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

He‘s lost the plot. (Act III)

I‘m getting why this work is deemed “too much” - but it‘s for that reason that it endears me. It‘s cartoony and outlandish rather than a trademark tragedy but 🤷🏻‍♀️

#shakespearereadalong

Graywacke And it rewards us with a few accessories (✋💪🦵🦶💀☠️). I‘m morbidly entertained too. 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

It‘s a dangerous world out there. Wash your hands often and watch out where you put them (or your heads).

Titus Act 3, Sunday #shakespearereadalong

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @merelybookish @AllisonM89 @LitStephanie 4y

TheBookHippie Brilliant!!!! 🤣 4y

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Lcsmcat 😂 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa 😂 and my nonfiction today was discussing hand transplants! 4y

merelybookish 🙈 4y

batsy 💀 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat 🙂 @merelybookish @batsy 😁 @Riveted_Reader_Melissa ok, what are you reading?! 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke Grunt by Mary Roach

Grunt: The Curious Science of Humans at War

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa ah, that makes sense. Roach would relish in that topic. 4y

merelybookish Just finished this Act. Feeling ranty. May pass by tomorrow but apologies in advance if not. 🤪 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish oh, i want the rant!! 😁 4y

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Melismatic

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

Trigger Warnings ahead.

Whooooo buddy Act II was 80‘s slasher movie gory. But surprisingly, Tamora‘s fiends fighting over getting to r*pe Lavinia turned my stomach more than anything else. I both recommend the live cast audiobook and say reader beware. Nothing skeeves me more than r*pe bc it‘s pure power possession.

#shakespearereadalong

LitStephanie It would be perfect for an 80s slasher style movie! 4y

Melismatic @LitStephanie totally has that feel, right? 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

Finished Act 2. Why was the brother of the emperor walking around with no sword or guards in light of recent events? Why were Quintus and Martius so trusting of Aaron?! Also, it is interesting how Lavinia joins Bassanius in degrading Tamora as a cuckolder (even though she is; it seems to show some bitterness about who ended up being emperor).
#shakespearereadalong

SamAnne Oh I need to join this readalong! 4y

LitStephanie Yes, @SamAnne, you do! 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

Image is from a bloodless Japanese performance. It‘s all ribbons.

Titus Act II
#shakespearereadalong

Aaron‘s mechanisms lead to a murder, premeditated rape/torture and probably the executions of 2 more. Titus has 1 child left before realizing there was a threat. Presenting disfigured Lavinia on the stage seems to have been a step beyond what was considered normal. And the bard is nodding to Ovid and using humor. Could you stomach it? Thoughts?

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @merelybookish @AllisonM89 @LitStephanie 4y

mollyrotondo I couldn‘t believe it when Aaron tells Demetrius and Charin to rape and murder Lavinia. At first he tells them to stop fighting with each other over the girl. So I thought Aaron was maybe the voice of reason. But then when he concocts the plan for them to rape her I was shocked and soooo disgusted. I was on the other hand not surprised that Tamora didn‘t give in to Lavinia‘s pleas because Tamora is out for revenge on Titus. And she is ⬇️ 4y

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mollyrotondo a cold hearted villainess so it fits her character. I was also not expecting a disfigures Lavinia to show up on stage. So upsetting. But I think the story is written really well. Still not understanding why it‘s considered is worst play. I like all the conniving actions. It‘s very Shakespeare. Pinning the murder of Bassianus on Titus‘s sons is brilliant. For as disturbed as I am, I‘m also liking this one. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa What a twisted revenge plot so far! Literally a bloody mess! So horrible, but I agree with @mollyrotondo , it seems very Shakespearean, or maybe more Greek Tragedy at this point. I am disappointed that Aaron (the moor) is again the bad guy, I know Shakespeare did this often, but I‘m annoyed by it all the same. 🙄 4y

TheBookHippie The fact that I love this and it‘s making me so happy is probably disturbing on some level 🤣🤷🏽‍♀️. I do not see why this is panned so often?! The treatment of women was interestingly underhanded and violent, not unlike today -side note as I just finished reading the section and immediately watched AOC speech on the floor ... it‘s all disgusting. However this play is written well and definitely Shakespearean 🖤 4y

batsy @TheBookHippie It's so grim and violent but I'm also "enjoying" it. Oh dear ? 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo “For as disturbed as I am, I‘m liking this one.” So far you‘re speaking for all us. Any dissenters? 4y

GingerAntics I like what they‘ve done in this image/production with the ribbons instead of blood. It gets the point across with much less mess. I like it. Aaron can go right ahead and fall into the pit and hit is head as far as I‘m concerned, as can Chiron and Demetrius. Just my opinion. Premeditated rape and murder is just a step beyond. I think it‘s important to have poor Lavinia come back on stage with all that blood (or those ribbons). 4y

GingerAntics @batsy it seems we‘re all quite enjoying this one. lol 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie yes, detestable behaviour towards women is still definitely a problem. Maybe that‘s why I feel it‘s so important for Lavinia to come back out and show where that sort of thinking ultimately leads. I find it interesting that the audience so against her coming out with all that blood was likely mostly men. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics EXACTLY. The feminist fight is underneath in an undertone for me reading it. The strength of womanhood and the look at this closely ... 4y

TheBookHippie @batsy oh dear me is accurate. 4y

TheBookHippie @Graywacke we‘ve all gone down the rabbit hole of darkness on this one! 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie maybe Shakespeare was a feminist before it was the cool thing to do. If he was alive now, he‘d be wearing one of those “this is what a feminist looks like” T-shirt‘s. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I‘ve thought that before, you really have to read it and wonder what he‘s saying. Especially the time this is written . Is he truly trying to say don‘t discount a woman‘s strength ? Or am I just hoping that‘s it ?! 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie right? Apparently even in the Rape of Lucrece, Shakespeare is the first person to really explore the emotional toll of rape. It really sounds like he was concerned with these things or at least saw them as important enough to write about and explore. 4y

mollyrotondo @TheBookHippie @GingerAntics Yes I wonder this same thing! I want to believe that he is trying to show the strength of women and show people how awful cruelty against women is by showing this victim of rape and torture on stage. But is that just me hoping this historical figure I love dearly is a champion for my same beliefs? And he always shows the true dynamic of women. Tamora does not care that another woman will suffer. ⬇️ 4y

mollyrotondo She cares about her cause. Which is another reason women are never believed. Women do not stand by women. Yet another way that the times don‘t change. 4y

LitStephanie That looks like a beautiful, haunting production, wow! I wasn't aware there was an aversion to Lavinia on stage after the mutilation. It's in the stage direction, but then, I haven't studied this one much. My understanding was that it's like going to a Gwar concert--avoid the first six rows. 4y

TheBookHippie @mollyrotondo Those are every single one of my thoughts !!! I feel too I think he did champion women- but is it me being hopeful ? 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics These are the exact things I wonder!! 4y

LitStephanie @GingerAntics and @TheBookHippie while Shakespeare was very forward thinking about women, I am not feeling that (much) here. Lavinia doesn't have much of a voice (literally by the end of act 2). Tamora is much more interesting, but she is a classic devious temptress who uses her sexuality to control men and cause them to do evil. The interesting part is her power and her utter lack of a "woman's" heart. 4y

LitStephanie I look forward to seeing how the characters develop in the next act, but some of these characters feel like poorly fleshed out ideas of characters who are developed and finished in later plays. I think that is part of why this play isn't as loved by critics as the others. 4y

GingerAntics @mollyrotondo some women don‘t and some women do. I think that has always been the case, and men have always known that they can keep their power only if they keep women separated. 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo @TheBookHippie @GingerAntics @LitStephanie Lavinia and Shakespeare as feminist or misogynist - can‘t that go both ways? (Shakespeare does that. He writes from the characters perspective.) So he has characters make fun her rape, but then he shocks and presents in all its gore...the shock impact up to the director... is that bold, or cruel, honest or glorifying in the gore? I think it‘s a tricky thing. (edited) 4y

Graywacke It doesn‘t help that she‘s silent. But the idea the idea that maybe male discomfort of this is more than female discomfort is a fascinating idea that might ring true. (I‘m afraid I could go on and on here) 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo back to your first post - what gets me is that C & D go from i-love-her-so-much-i-will-kill-you to, hey, rape her, what a grand idea? Obviously Aaron understood this logic... 4y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa thanks for highlighting the racism here. I think it‘s important to point that out, too 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie ( @batsy @mollyrotondo @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @GingerAntics @LitStephanie ) our dark Shakespearean love 🖤 - this cracks me up. It‘s awful and yet terrific. The nature of spectacle. 🖤⚔️🗡🔪🩸😳☺️ ( ☮️ ... ?? 🙂) Also glad everyone likes this so far. T. S. Eliot had me worried. @jewright had the right idea with that. 4y

mollyrotondo @Graywacke yeah it at first seemed like a fight for love and Aaron thinking it was foolish for two brothers to fight over a woman who is with the Kong‘s brother anyway. But then it turns barbaric which sort of goes back to what we talked about last week. But this time the Goths are actually being extremely barbaric. And the Goth brothers also seem extremely easily influenced 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie i find the picture beautiful haunting too. The mixture of the two emotions - Isn‘t it a fantastic aesthetic they found? And, I agree, @GingerAntics , an interesting clean way to get the point across - mixing the acknowledgement of stage spectacle with the impact of its intended impression. I really love what they did. (edited) 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke it‘s very striking. I keep just looking at it and taking it all in...over and over. Every time I comment, I stop and look at this picture again. They did a genius job with all that ribbon. 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo i was thinking through the barbarian theme too. The name Chiron leaves me thinking of mythology and then Ovid. (This play has me thinking of Pirithoüs‘s wedding - Metamorphoses Book 12). Anyway, interesting. Barbaric Romans and barbaric barbarians ? (edited) 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics you have me really wanting to read The Rape of Lucrece. Interesting comment. 4y

merelybookish Well I guess I will be the voice of dissent. I read this act with creeping dread and disgust. 🤢 I'm not much of a horror fan and I just find it over-the-top. It's like he turned it up to 11. And I agree with @LitStephanie , the characters are crude versions of more nuanced ones we see later. Their motives laid bare in simple explanations. Shakespeare may be asking the audience to confront rape in a vivid way, yet it's pretty sensational. 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish A kind of 16th-century shredder movie? 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke I actually read that somewhere...possibly the intro to one of my copies of the sonnets and narrative poems. I haven‘t read that poem yet. 4y

LitStephanie @simplybookish "motives laid bare in simple explanations" is exactly it! 4y

jewright The female characters would have been played by males on stage in Shakespeare‘s day, so that adds a whole other layer. I found this part disturbing. Rape is very difficult for me to read because of some personal experiences. It‘s really upsetting that they take away her ability to speak or write about her trauma. I‘m guessing this play gets a bad reputation because of the extreme violence. I don‘t think I would want to teach it. 4y

jewright Overall, the plot seems well written though. It‘s violent, but it is a better thought out plot (so far) than some others. 4y

LitStephanie @Graywacke @mollyrotondo the idea of going so quickly from wooing for sex with a married woman to raping her, and not seeming to really think one was preferable to the other, was really chilling. Also super gross that two brothers want to have sex with the same woman, just ew. But I think the word "love" here means more "desire." Also agree that the idea was to make the Goths seem barbaric to the point of being subhuman. 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics we can fix that! 🙂 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish @LitStephanie it occurs to me Ovid‘s take on Pirithoüs‘s wedding isn‘t particularly sophisticated either. I‘m not sure that‘s at all relevant, but it might be. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke I know. 😁 I‘m looking forward to reading it and the other narrative poems with everyone. 4y

batsy It was so heartbreaking and brutal how we see Lavinia after the rape. And it made me sad/mad the way the Tamora wasn't moved to any fellow feeling. In that sense T came off as the stereotypical monstrous woman. 4y

TheBookHippie @batsy yes stereo typical -also not much has changed ..with the passing of time. 4y

TheBookHippie @Graywacke With teens who have experienced trauma,they seem to look to thrillers to calm them. I did as well before I was totally healed -there‘s something about them. I still find them fascinating, especially if well written. I‘d always prefer in your face then underhanded, so probably why I‘m enjoying this so much. I actually think teaching it would bring amazingly healing conversation. The fact it‘s used like this may have been a point for WS. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I too find the picture mesmerizing. It‘s all fascinating . 4y

Daisey Just chiming in to agree with some comments. I‘m in complete agreement with @mollyrotondo comment about being disturbed but enjoying this play. I‘m also very much intrigued by this idea of the ribbons for a bloodless production. Finally, @GingerAntics and @TheBookHippie bring up some fascinating points about making a statement with Lavinia to force viewers to consider the effect on women of this kind of violence. 4y

TheBookHippie @LitStephanie Seeing this in real life more often then I‘ve ever wanted to and watching girls believe both are the same in a relationship or marriage, to find that Shakespeare uses it way back when is telling of how long this has been acceptable treatment and behavior to some. My hope is he‘s trying to make a point of how absurd it is. 4y

TheBookHippie @jewright I think the well written saves it a lot. I‘m trying to look at the disturbing parts in a positive learning light for others ..may they see the absolute horror of it ? It‘s a hope anyway. Rape is difficult for me as well. Which is probably why I always work to use it as a learning teaching moment when I see it in things. 4y

TheBookHippie @Daisey YES. Like holding up a mirror to it!! 4y

LitStephanie @TheBookHippie the play might be showing how absurd revenge is. Or it might just be a gory spectacle that sold tickets. We'll see. ;-) 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie that‘s a perfect fit for it. That‘s the word I was looking for before. It‘s mesmerising. 4y

GingerAntics @Daisey @TheBookHippie even now there is still a big thing with rape in entertainment (tv shows, movies, etc). I remember several years ago now, within like an hour of each other, a male character on one show was raped for like 10 minutes on screen, and on a different show a female character was raped for like 30 seconds off screen. Everyone was up in arms about the female character and just sort of shrugged at the male character. 4y

GingerAntics @Daisey @TheBookHippie it‘s definitely something that still touches people and makes audiences really uncomfortable. Sadly, it still needs a mirror held up to it. It‘s still waiting for the moment when it can be discussed openly and honestly without finger pointing, eye rolling, or victim blaming. Sadly, I fear that day will never come. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I keep the hope alive -although I‘m pretty outspoken much to everyone else‘s wishes . I‘m not believed mostly, and anymore I don‘t care. Because I am believed by another victim/survivor -especially a teen -when I look in their eyes and they see their truth in my truth. I hope someday we can talk open and people accept for what it is. Truth. Full stop. Here‘s hoping I live to see it someday. 4y

TheBookHippie @LitStephanie right? We will make it our own anyway by discussing it. The best revenge for gratuitous money grabs 🤣 we will turn it into good. Ha. The fun of read a longs and interpretation ! I‘m looking forward to where it leads us for sure. 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie you and me both!!! 4y

erzascarletbookgasm The savage attack of Lavinia was a shock. I can imagine the visual effects of ‘Lavinia-after-the-rape‘ on stage. The use of ribbons in the image above is brilliant. 4y

Lcsmcat Late to the party, and haven‘t read everyone‘s comments yet, but have to say that reading this at the same time I read Augustine saying how awful it was that as a young man he and his friends loved to weep over the griefs of actors on the stage, taking joy in pretend tragedy, has maybe colored my view. I found it more Greek than Shakesperean. More emphasis on the action than the characters‘ psychology. 4y

Lcsmcat @merelybookish Yes! You said what I was trying to say. 4y

Lcsmcat Also, Litsy didn‘t notify me (I just double checked) so even though I can see I was tagged, it never came in my “conversations” section. @TimSpalding ? 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat sorry you didn‘t get the notification😕 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke No worries- it obviously wasn‘t on your end. Either Litsy or my phone. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 4y

Graywacke This conversation. Wow. Thanks everyone. @lcsmcat‘s St Augustine paraphrase about how we “love to weep over the griefs...on the stage” is very apt here in our thread and leaves a lot for me to think about. Also, part of me is glad not everyone “loved” (or, replace with less dramatic positive adjective) it. 🙂 4y

Melismatic Just caught up. I‘m a horror fiend but this pretty dark stuff, even if Lavinia isn‘t particularly likeable. I‘m surprised Tamora hasn‘t gone down in history for her villainous apathy. The rape scenes were pretty heinous & were harder to hear/read than her actual disfigurement. 4y

Melismatic Marcus‘s final speech kind of made my eyes roll tho. If you saw your niece in such pain, you‘d just drone on like that? Nah. 4y

47 likes69 comments

Mythos: A Retelling of the Myths of Ancient Greece

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

The death count in Act II might not have been high, but it was incredibly violent. Some scenes had me cringing as I listened. As always I appreciate the full cast production of the ArkAngel audio.

#ShakespeareReadalong

AvidReader25 I read this a few years ago, but just read Mythos and didn‘t realize the whole pie situation came from a Greek myth!

(edited) 4y

Daisey @AvidReader25 I just read the blurb and your review of Mythos. It sounds fantastic! 4y

batsy Almost every other page had me like 😰 4y

AvidReader25 @Daisey If you like Greek mythology it is delightful! 4y

52 likes1 stack add4 comments

Titus Andronicus (Revised) | William Shakespeare

Wow, this was one nasty act. The death toll rises, but not as much as I expected after the first act. I‘m sure the list will grown quickly enough, though.
#Shakespeare #TitusAndronicus #shakespearereadalong

batsy So grim. 4y

GingerAntics @batsy after this act, I really wanted Aaron, Chiron, and Demetrius to die. Here‘s hoping for act III. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke I didn‘t know if you wanted me to tag everyone or not, but I promised to keep a running total, so a running total it is!!! 🤣😂🤣 4y

See All 10 Comments

batsy @GingerAntics I know! There's already enough violence but I would have pushed them all into a volcano. 4y

GingerAntics @batsy there was that nice pit in this act. It‘s really too bad someone didn‘t just push them in. (edited) 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics this post is awesome. I think your font will need to get smaller later on. 4y

TheBookHippie 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🖤🖤🖤be still my black heart. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke oh, I‘m counting on that. Luckily as I add names, the font adjusts itself. 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie 🤣😂🤣 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie 🤣 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

I just finished Act 1, and about all I can say is, in the immortal words of Ron Burgandy, "That escalated quickly." Also, wow, this is a very early work!

#shakespearereadalong

9 likes

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

Just a reminder we‘ll continue to discuss the beauty of Shakespeare this Sunday - Titus Act 2

#shakespearereadalong

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @merelybookish @AllisonM89 4y

Lcsmcat Very illustrative! 4y

See All 12 Comments

Graywacke @Lcsmcat found it with this headline: Shakespeare‘s Bloody Problem: Why the Tragedies Almost Never Work Anymore ... !! ( warning, link has spoilers : https://www.vulture.com/2014/06/shakespeare-has-a-bloody-problem.html ) 4y

GingerAntics Is that Patrick Stewart?! I know he loves doing Shakespeare... plus this picture is just great. That is so much blood, you‘re left wondering if it‘s over kill (pun intended) or if it‘s meant to be like a painting. 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics a Jackson Pollok slaughter? And yes, Patrick Stewart. Also Ethan Hawke, Kenneth Branagh, and, hidden in the back, Kevin Spacey. 4y

TheBookHippie YAAAAS!!!! Jackson Pollok blood spatter. 4y

vivastory @GingerAntics The Patrick Stewart is from Macbeth, one of my favorite adaptations 4y

GingerAntics @vivastory oh I loved his Macbeth!!! 4y

GingerAntics I was trying to figure out who that was back there. 4y

Lcsmcat Interesting article. I‘m not sure I agree with him - I‘ve seen some powerful MacBeths - but interesting to ponder. 4y

batsy This blood spatter brings to mind American Psycho 💀 4y

45 likes12 comments

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

It‘s better to be the Emperor than not.

I was surprised that I really enjoyed this act. ☺️ Titus graciously exchanges being emperor to being the grandfather of an emperor. Alas, power is unforgiving. In quick succession Lavinia is taken, Titus kills his own son, and finds his captured enemy his queen with deeply held revenge on her mind. Hmm. Dark stuff ahead. (Anyone else thinking King Lear?) What did you think of Act I?

#shakespearereadalong

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @AllisonM89 4y

mollyrotondo I really liked it too. I was reading a bunch of stuff about how some people don‘t think this was entirely written by Shakespeare and about the play being really bad. But then I read Act I and loved it! The hero comes back from war with a “villainous” woman as captive, murders her son because her men murdered his sons, she becomes the emperor‘s queen and will use her role to take revenge on the hero. But then the hero kills his own son?⬇️ 4y

See All 53 Comments

mollyrotondo The drama! I really like all the players. And this set up in Act I is pretty clean and straightforward. I think I‘m going to have very different opinions from the critics on this one 4y

Lcsmcat I think the body count on this one is going to be pretty high! I have a hard time with the Roman idea of honor that involves killing each other every time someone is insulted. 🙄 4y

CoffeeNBooks I found Act I interesting, lots of drama so far, and I'm interested to see where the play goes from here! 4y

Cuilin I loved it, which surprised me. I‘m seriously questioning my morals. I thought the language clear, and concise. The setting up in Act one of a murky revenge story has my attention. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa I was halfway through Act 1 and thought... this is NOT going to end well! 😂 4y

MoonWitch94 I agree with @CoffeeNBooks! Can‘t wait to see where we go from here. A lot going on straight out the gate, and usually the first Act just sets up the story—but this time we‘re running from the gate! @Cuilin —RIGHT? I really enjoyed it, but I was like “omg, look what‘s happened! How am I enjoying it?” 🤪 4y

Daisey I enjoyed it as well! I went in knowing it would be violent but not expecting quite so much action in the first act. 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo i know, the drama. phew. (However I‘m not sure I like any of the players. 😂) 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat What‘s with Romans and their selective mortal honor? I did look up the body count. Much more to come. 😳 4y

mollyrotondo @Graywacke no? Lol I just think each player stands out really well and I understand their motives. I don‘t want to be friends with any of them that‘s for sure haha 4y

Graywacke @CoffeeNBooks any expectations? (I cheated and read reviews etc. So...at least I won‘t be...um...surprised) 4y

Graywacke @Cuilin 😂 are spectator side is not always, uh, maybe not so well attuned with our morality. I was surprised how much I liked it too. I was actually thinking Titus‘s sudden complete reversal and failure was pretty cool...😁 4y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa no, no, no. It‘s really not. 🤣 4y

Graywacke @MoonWitch94 that “straight out of the gate” is a another aspect that make me think of Lear (Sorry, hit send by accident) (edited) 4y

Graywacke @MoonWitch94 “how am I enjoying” 🤣 4y

Graywacke @Daisey it‘s civil and then, whamp, sacrifices, filicide*, humiliation. Good stuff...well, um. Anyway, more to come... (*a word i just found. Means killing of one‘s son.) 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo oh, goodness, I‘m glad to be a few thousand years away... 4y

Graywacke @mollyrotondo Ok, Lavinia is blameless....but oh... 🙈 4y

batsy It's gritty and raw, so it feels wrong to say I enjoyed it but I did. It's a second read for me and I liked it the first time, too. Appreciating the layers here. For example, the idea of barbarism ... The Romans protest too much (and need to look in the mirror). Also the origins of the concept of rape as "property" stolen from the patriarch (re: Lavinia). 4y

GingerAntics Wow, we‘ve already got a body count. I‘m keeping track in this one, after King Lear. I‘m trying to remember if we had a death this early in King Lear. I love this play so far. 4y

MoonWitch94 @Graywacke Yes! Totally reminiscent of Lear! 4y

mollyrotondo @batsy oh I‘m glad to hear of someone who already read it and liked it! I‘m excited to continue! And yes I like the reflection on barbarism as well. I mean Titus wants to condemn Tamora for murdering his sons but then he just goes ahead and kills another one of his sons? Talk about barbaric. It‘s a good criticism of the Romans at this time. 4y

Graywacke @batsy @mollyrotondo the civilized barbarism criticism certainly applies to Shakespeare‘s England too. (And, I think, to our various personal worlds.) 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics Will you keep track for everyone? We need a body count counter. 🙂 (and do we count Titus‘s 21 sons lost before it started?) 4y

Graywacke @MoonWitch94 ok 👍 The psychological parallels to Lear catch my attention, especially the unspoken (and unresolved?) regrets. 4y

GingerAntics Oh, I hadn‘t considered that. I was thinking just the people we saw die during the course of the play. That can always be added on, though. 4y

batsy @mollyrotondo @Graywacke Yes, yet another one of those eternally relevant things. I like Shakespeare's gimlet eye in this so far ... doesn't seem inclined to gloss over some of the ironies. 4y

batsy @GingerAntics @Graywacke I like the psychological parallels to Lear, as well. And I appreciated the Signet intro pointing out just how violent Lear is, too, because sometimes it's the least talked about aspect of that play. 4y

GingerAntics @batsy it is remarkably violent. There are so many deaths in that one. It seems such a glaringly obvious element of the play. It‘s odd that people try to ignore it. 4y

erzascarletbookgasm Wow, the bloodshed already occur right in the beginning. We definitely need someone to keep track of the body count! 🙂 With act of revenge and further plotting of revenge, I‘m sure things will be very interesting. Liking it, seems very different from the other plays I‘ve read so far. 4y

merelybookish Just catching up! Not much to add but like everyone was surprised how quickly things go into action! Interesting to think about comparing it to Lear. Titus was his first tragedy. Is Lear one of his last? If so interesting to think he'd return to similar subject matter with more mature artistry. And yeah, lots more bodies to come! 4y

TheBookHippie Oh my word I love it. Not sure what this says about me 🤣🤣🤷🏽‍♀️ loving it. I also read this was a not good one and so far I don‘t see it ? I‘m anxious to see the body count @GingerAntics . So far I‘m very much liking it. 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie right? This one is great so far. We must watch the bodies pile up!!! 🤣😂🤣 4y

Melismatic Just caught up. I know nothing of this story and am really enjoying it so far. I hope Tamora is a good “villain” - her manipulative acts in revenge so far make me...like her? Am I too dark? 😂🤷🏻‍♀️ 4y

Graywacke @batsy eternally relevant 🙁 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics @batsy on the violence : not that the bard every shied of killing anyone...or everyone... (but, phew, act 2... thats a whole new level. Oops. I should 🤐til Sunday) (edited) 4y

Graywacke @erzascarletbookgasm I sense that too - the different feel. Not sure I could put my finger on it. And yeah, interesting coming... 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish comparing to Lear is fascinating in many levels. I thought he put everything into Lear, all the complexity he could come up with. It was a really full play. Surely he had this in mind ?? 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I was expecting - you know - like when his plays just don‘t seem to work. Something wrong somewhere. So, anyway, kind of interesting just how well act 1 works. (Or @TheBookHippie it means there something wrong with a whole lot of us !!) 4y

Graywacke @Melismatic yay. It‘s fun so far. Stay out of Tamora‘s sights though. Phew 4y

TheBookHippie @Graywacke 🤣🤣🤣 I‘ve never been “normal” in my life so, oh well. This could be a new favorite. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke @TheBookHippie maybe there is something wrong with us... oh well!!! 🤣😂🤣 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie @GingerAntics ☺️😊 surely there must be a book on Shakespeare‘s guidance to human psychology. ?? 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics @TheBookHippie ok, I googled and this came up. I haven‘t even read the article yet. It‘s existence is entertaining in itself. https://evolution-institute.org/what-did-shakespeare-understand-about-the-human-... 4y

TheBookHippie @Graywacke The Psychology Of Shakespeare By John Charles Bucknill @GingerAntics

The Psychology of Shakespeare

(edited) 4y

TheBookHippie @Graywacke I just googled the same article 🤣🤣🤷🏽‍♀️👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie @Graywacke I can‘t find that book, but that article is totally happening. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I‘m on the hunt now!!! 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie can‘t find any reviews on the Bucknill 😐 4y

TheBookHippie @Graywacke Me either 🤷🏽‍♀️ 4y

42 likes53 comments

Cuilin

Titus Andronicus (Revised) | William Shakespeare

Act I scene I

Aha! The cover makes sense now. 😳

#shakespearereadalong

Lcsmcat Wow. That cover. 4y

batsy That's a really cool cover. 4y

Graywacke That‘s quite a cover... 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

I‘m learning there is a wide cultural lineage from this play, including a 1999 movie with Anthony Hopkins. And I thought it was obscure. Gore leaves echoes 😳

More on its influence here (the article has spoilers) : https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/04/theater/titus-andronicus.html

See you all Sunday, when we‘ll talk about Act I and the early body count. #shakespearereadalong

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @AllisonM89 4y

TheBookHippie Ooooo. I do like Hopkins. 4y

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erzascarletbookgasm I will brace myself for this play.🔪🩸💀 4y

GingerAntics Oh, maybe I can try the movie then. I haven‘t been able to find ANY audio for this play. Even podcasts, my place of last resort for audio Shakespeare plays, turned up nothing. 4y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie seems like he would make a terrific Titus. 4y

Graywacke @erzascarletbookgasm act I is not too bad...well, I mean, unless you‘re like a character in play. But, still, yeah, good plan! 🙂 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics Bummer. Hope you find something. Curious about the movie. (Critical success, financial flop. Lost about $20,000,000 ) 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke WOOOOW!!! That is a LOT of money. That is a financial flop. Ouch. That is A LOT fo zeroes. How much did they spend making this thing? Sheesh. 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke Just found it. They spent $25 million on to make the movie. So they only made about $5 million. Hm. 4y

GingerAntics @thebookhippie still looking for the full movie, but I did find Act I Scene I from the RSC, so at least that will help me get through this week. I'll deal with next week, next week. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgSXfwBsUUk&list=PLyWzgC4DLtGiOI3IXebSSlVn_Jj_5D... (edited) 4y

TheBookHippie @Graywacke YES!! I‘ll bet it‘s amazing ! (edited) 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics oh hmm! Yay. 4y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics woe that‘s a lot of dollars 😳 4y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie especially to not make much money back. It seems they made $5 million, which seems like a lot, until you see the cost to make the movie. It takes a minute to take in all those zeros. 4y

GingerAntics It‘s really weird. Obviously I knew about this post two months ago, but somehow I just got a notification that I was tagged in this post...2 months after the fact. At first I was thinking “we‘re not reading Titus next. We just read Titus.” 🤷🏼‍♀️😂 says I was tagged 5 minutes ago. 🤣😂🤣 (edited) 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics i fixed the #shakespearereadalong tag. ☺️ I was searching for the tag and my incorrect version popped up 4y

GingerAntics @Graywacke oh so it really did happen last night! I thought Litsy was weighing in on Merchant vs Titus. 🤣 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics that would be something! 🙂.... 😳 4y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

#shakespearereadalong , next is Titus Andronicus, the play T. S. Eliot called, “one of the stupidest and most uninspired plays ever written”. What are we getting into? Completists, resilient ones and gleeful critics welcome. ?? 🙂

Pictured is the only existent contemporary sketch of a Shakespeare play, and it‘s from this one.

Discussion dates:
Act I - July 19
Act II - July 26
Act III - Aug 2
Act IV - Aug 9
Act V - Aug 16

Graywacke @GingerAntics @readinginthedark @Lcsmcat @batsy @TheBookHippie @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Gezemice @jewright @Cuilin @mollyrotondo @Melismatic @Sace @Liz_M @MoonWitch94 @Sunraven @Trashcanman @IamIamIam @ladyneverwhere @erzascarletbookgasm @catebutler @CoffeeNBooks @Daisey @saresmoore @rabbitprincess @IndoorDame @Mtroiano @mhillis @kathedron @MrsMalaprop @readordierachel @teainthelibrary 4y

Graywacke @Susannah @Kristy_K @rachelm @kristenm @slategreyskies @Panic70 @Carolyn11215 @Alliterati @Wife @wanderinglynn @Jess_Read_This @greenreads @merelybookish @AllisonM89 4y

Graywacke Of course, if anyone wants on or off the list, just let know. 4y

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GingerAntics I didn‘t know T.S. Elliot said that. I‘m with you. What have we gotten ourselves into? 🤣😂🤣 Well, we‘ll get through it together, love it or hate it. Here goes nothing. 4y

merelybookish Great quote! 🤣 This was his first tragedy. I think it shows. But it is memorable! I read it years ago and at least one scene remains vivid! 😳 4y

Graywacke @GingerAntics of course, maybe TSE was being silly? Or clueless? I think we‘ll make it fun regardless. 4y

Graywacke @merelybookish it‘s all new to me. (Curious which scene, but i can wait till we get there. I know it‘s not the one pictured, because it doesn‘t actually match any scenes in the play! 🙂) (edited) 4y

Daisey Well, after that introduction and reading a few Litsy reviews, I‘m intrigued! 4y

batsy Ahaha, I didn't know TS Eliot said that! Like @merelybookish I also have one particular scene in mind having read it once before. I think of it fondly as Shakespeare's version of a B-grade gore movie so I'll be interested to see how I feel when I read it again 😆 4y

merelybookish @batsy I'm pretty sure we remember the same scene! 🥧 4y

batsy @merelybookish That's the one 🙃 4y

jewright Well, considering how I feel about T. S. Elliot, I might love it! 4y

erzascarletbookgasm So curious about ‘the scene‘ 🤔 4y

Graywacke @Daisey 🙂 @jewright whoa. Could you like it out of spite? 😃 @erzascarletbookgasm me too. 🥧? Like in the Help? Like Shepard‘s pie, but with some other meat? You‘ve created a little tension in my curiosity, @batsy and @merelybookish (edited) 4y

Graywacke ( @erzascarletbookgasm - not sure my tag took just above) 4y

Gezemice I think I am going to sit this one out, as I have too many group reads on my plate. Will be coming back for the next one. Enjoy! 4y

jewright @Graywacke Yes, that‘s pretty much how much I hate “The Waste Land.” I know it‘s supposed to be brilliant, and I can appreciate some of the lines, but it‘s just dumb to write something on purpose to be obscure. 4y

Graywacke @Gezemice no worries, you get to miss all the gore!! Next is the Merchant of Venice (led my @merelybookish ) 4y

Graywacke @jewright 🤣 Maybe it means you will enjoy this one. 4y

LitStephanie I am a little late to join this discussion, but what's next? 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie Hi. Next is Merchant of Venice. @merelybookish is leading. If you would like to follow this one I can add you to the tag list. (We‘re only on act 2 ... if you want to join in 😁 ) 4y

LitStephanie Perfect, thanks, I would like to join. I will catch up! 4y

Graywacke @LitStephanie awesome. I‘ll put you on the list 4y

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Dogearedcopy

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

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This was one of the “noisiest” plays in my head as I was reading it! I imagined the stamping of Roman Centurions‘ feet, the forceful oratory, the insidious hiss of traitorous asides, the gut wrenching grief of those who suffered... But I also heard snippets if Wagnerian opera, Beethoven‘s 9th, and even Merry Clayton belting out that famous Rape/Murder refrain from the Stones‘ song, “Gimme Shelter”!

#Shakespeare2020Project

Dogearedcopy Image: Graphic from

The Shakespeare Book

batsy That image! 4y

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Dogearedcopy

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

I am ridiculously behind the #Shakespeare2020Project to the point where I can‘t realistically expect to catch up. This is where I left off and where I‘m picking back up; but from here on out, I think I‘ll just try to complete the Tragedies this year.

Bloodthirsty Goths and Ancient Romans, betrayals and revenge... It‘s like Quentin Tarantino wrote an opera! 🎭

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Emilymdxn

Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

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I put off reading this for years then got a lot more out of it than I expected. I‘d heard a lot about it being Shakespeare‘s goriest play and it certainly is immensely violent, I never usually like violent writing but I felt like I understood more through the violence than I could have if it wasn‘t there. While Lavinia‘s story is deeply disturbing, I‘ve become a bit obsessed with her and her symbolism and how she‘s staged.

Lindy I liked this play much more than I expected. I don‘t like stories about revenge because I believe “an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.” What I take away from this play is that revenge can only result in more unhappiness, not less. 5y

muscogulus My wife wrote an article about this. For her the play is about rhetoric: Tamora, Titus, Lavinia each suffer after mistaking the occasion and giving the wrong speech. IOW they fail to read the room. To me it makes sense that a young Shakespeare, stuffed with book learning, would write a play driven by tragically flawed orations. It‘s not the only thing going on, but I think it‘s important, though not as noticeable to a modern audience. 5y

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

pan

🌟🌟
#Shakespeare2020

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

#Shakespeare2020

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Titus Andronicus | William Shakespeare

#Shakespeare2020

33 likes