Litsy

Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype | Clarissa Pinkola Est�s Phd

I have been wondering why this subgenre is so popular. As someone who has been stalked and assaulted I have a hard time finding the romance in any of this- it lends more to horror for me (although i did think Hooked told a good story and was shocked i liked it) But when reading chapter 2 in the book I wonder if this is a different way to understand the dark man in our psyches. Or is this representing our Shadows and our own dark sides? I have

CaroPi, DebinHawaii, Cuilin, AmyG, kspenmoll, TheBookHippie, JenniferEgnor, Suet624, Deblovestoread, zezeki, BookwormAHN, PathfinderNicole, GingerAntics, ravenlee, CBee, dabbe, ElizaMarie, ImperfectCJ, nanuska_153, ncsufoxes, lil1inblue

Chrissyreadit so many thoughts and hopes for discussion on this topic- What do these books heal in us? or What messages do you get from genres with more violence and/or taboo themes? How do you respond to taboo? Could that be a dark man in your life? 1d

GingerAntics Yeah, I‘ve wondered that myself. I used to enjoy those books as a teen, until I was stalked, abused, etc. Now they just don‘t sit right with me. I‘ve always seen it as the predator trying to convince us that their harm is actually good/romantic. I find it troubling that more and more of this is written by women. 1d

TheBookHippie @Chrissyreadit @GingerAntics interestingly I‘ve found unhealed women read these and healed women abhor them. Only reason I say this is it‘s how I feel and then I got into a discussion with some women and they said they read it for comfort because it was comforting. When they got to healing and therapy they no longer could read it. Interesting. I honestly don‘t know over all- that‘s a tiny group here at a women shelter book club. I personally ⬇️ 1d

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TheBookHippie Don‘t read this type of book. I don‘t read certain subjects because I do not believe it‘s ethical and is sometimes theater trauma or voyeur trauma. No thanks. There are things I lived I care not to read about. It‘s not what I use reading for. I however have no issue with people who need it or want it. Personal choice is not my business. 🙃 1d

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie that‘s a really valid point. If some people want to read it, like it, more power to them I guess. I still find it heartbreaking that falling for the predator is this massive trope. I mean, even Beauty and the Beast falls into this. We‘re selling it to little kids as normal. 1d

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I adored dark fairytales as a child and they were comforting because no happy ending and it was real. Like my life. Disney fairytales made me angry because I felt it was lying. It is probably why I adore Alice in Wonderland more than the others. I still love Dark FairyTales but now it‘s just nostalgia -look what saved me. 1d

lil1inblue @TheBookHippie I tend to agree with you. I don't find an overall value in this type of book, and it does feel voyeuristic. Not gonna judge others for reading it, but it's not for me. 🎯 1d

BookwormAHN I don't know, I read Anne Rice's Beauty novels as a teenager and they really freaked me out. Having said that Haunting Adeline is on my tbr. I think it just depends on the story and my mood 🤷🏼‍♀️ 1d

ravenlee I wonder if some of the appeal of reading this is that, at any point, you can put it down. It‘s a small power, but sometimes that‘s all you‘ve got. Maybe the glimpse into the male motivation validates something for some readers (largely the ones who think rape is about sex rather than power - I had someone explain rape fantasy to me as “making a man so wild he can‘t overcome his desire for me” 🤢). 1d

GingerAntics @ravenlee 🤮 gross! I don‘t mind a mutual chasing fantasy, where a couple who have developed a relationship and trust have this shared fantasy of chasing and catching and whatever… because it‘s mutual and it‘s a good time for all. I just don‘t understand rape fantasies, though. Just, gross. It seriously sounds like something a man made up and convinced some women they actually had. 1d

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I like original fairytales too. They are more about teaching kids about life and reality than this Disney crap. I loved Disney movies as a kid, but mostly for the music. If it‘s a musical, I‘ll watch just about anything. lol 1d

TheBookHippie @ravenlee controlling the narrative is big. Rape is about power and control. So they are controlling at what they can take in is plausible. Uncontrollable desire is a myth. Insecure women fall for it everyday … 1d

AmyG I am always fascinated by people who do things I‘d never dream of doing. What compels them. It‘s all about understanding why. @ravenlee Yes…understanding the motivation. But I don‘t read these either or don‘t intentionally read them or even like them. (edited) 1d

AnnCrystal This is an incredible thread to read through.

Personally I can't read stories or watch movies with this kind of romance...well, too much gore or sex just gets annoying anyway...but painting this kind of sinister romance seems dangerous.

I like a good beauty and the beast story, there's a message there. There's more to a person besides their “good“ or “bad“ looks.

But respect and trust in a relationship should be things that are highlighted. 👇 1d

AnnCrystal I haven't read these titles, but I have had the opportunity to buy each of these books. Thankfully I researched beforehand or read the book's “warning.“

I have accidentally read books like these. If too terrible, they usually get donated, unfinished. Otherwise I skip along.

I feel that stories like these might make a young girl believe that this kind of disrespect is ok, natural, acceptable.

👇🏼

1d

AnnCrystal In a world with so many predators and bullies, we need stories that teach our young girls what respect means.

I believe there are many of us who are looking warriors, and so many mistake cruelty for strength... (edited) 1d

ElizaMarie So, I am behind on the #WildWomenReading, so I am going to answer this (but not using the current reading to guide my discussion). I have been stalked/beaten/tortured/sexually assaulted AND I have read these types of books (only Lights Out on this list). I don't know why I do. I don't know if its a feeling of control. Like I can read about these things, and be fully “safe“. I watch documentaries about DV, watch Law & Order SVU, podcast truecrime ⬇ 11h

ElizaMarie And yet, when I feel unsafe or triggered. I can use my coping skills, or totally avoid/DNF/quit the subject. I don't know if it's a test of my boundaries and my feelings of safety, or what it is. I am currently reading this one and am very much struggling with it. He is a stalker/user/rapist. I am more than likely going to DNF it. Some of these dark “romances“ are about stalking and/or coercion, but they try to pretend the woman finds it ⬇ (edited) 11h

ElizaMarie desirable. Which helps me not think of it as “rape“ even though the parallels are there. 11h

ElizaMarie @ravenlee I answered this, then went back and read everyone's comments - I think that's what it does for me. I can put it down. I can choose, where in the past, that choice was taken from me. 11h

ElizaMarie @AnnCrystal I agree with the concern of having young girls feel this type of male attention is “normal“ or should be “sought“. I, too, worry about what we teach children (both boys and girls) about consent, respect, kindness, and general human-ness.

I don't know how old. You are, but have you seen stories about how we as a society talked about women's bodies in the 90s? That was my teenage years and deeply ingrained into my psyche. 11h

AnnCrystal @ElizaMarie 💝🫂💝 the 90s were my childhood years.

That's true, we need to teach the boys too. We need to encourage these important teachings into our children daily lives.

For one of the books I accidentally read recently, I went researching about it after and saw a review from a young woman. She said it had been the very first book she ever read and believed that the abuse in the book was just how romance was, normal. 8h

AnnCrystal @ElizaMarie that review has really remain with me. The same reviewer stated that she has now read other books, and has come to realize her mistake. But her words spoke volume.

You're right. I believe so much more work needs to be done to educate our children on what a healthy relationship truly is...

💝🫂💝. 8h

ElizaMarie @AnnCrystal wow that review is so powerfully heartbreaking. I can see why it stuck. (Thanks for sharing that with me) 5h

AnnCrystal @ElizaMarie 🥲👌🏼💝🫂💝. 5h

Chrissyreadit @ElizaMarie @AnnCrystal One thing i find interesting is that sex in the books i grew up reading was always focused on male pleasure or denegrating women… or that women are left… or get pregnant and left- We really did not have any sex positive stuff- Then i remember Delta of Venus…. written by Anais Nin and very rough for women…. 3h

AnnCrystal @Chrissyreadit 📚🥺📚 Terrible truth. I will search about Anais Nin 😉👍🏼📚💝.

Most of the books that seem easiest to run across are usually the ones showcasing abuse and bullying as romance. It enrages me that it seems so difficult to find romance stories that depict good, well structured relationships.

Truthfully, I'm not much of a romance reader, I prefer love stories to that are woven into the background of the main story events. 48m

AnnCrystal @ElizaMarie I checked my notes. The book I was referring to was:

Twisted love by Ana Huang, the review had been on Goodreads.

Just wanted to make a reference note.

📚💝📚. 40m

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Chrissyreadit

Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype | Clarissa Pinkola Est�s Phd

The sentence before this refers to the way families of origin impact emotional health, then recognizes the way culture impacts mental health. The discussion around this is the source of many books. In this case the dark man is the entity that threatens our cultural health. What are ways we can create and strengthen our emotional energy when culture is ruled by a predator?

GingerAntics I think we‘ve got “culture ruled by a predator” nailed. I think the biggest problem facing us today is that too few people see this as a problem. 1d

TheBookHippie Art, Music, Poetry, create create create. Facilitate joy. That‘s the response. Form community. That‘s a culture response. (edited) 1d

ElizaMarie Again, I am behind. I will try to read today (been a rough week). This quote reminded me of the “diluting water“ video. Where your generational trauma gets passed on, and then you get “water“ to dilute it and make it less of a trauma to pass on yourself. My “water“ is --- friendship (groups of strong people like y'all), finding little wins, taking time for me. 11h

33 likes3 comments

Chrissyreadit

Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype | Clarissa Pinkola Est�s Phd

Do you recognize parts of yourself that can feel toxic but are actually also healthy and necessary?

GingerAntics My anger and my drive. Both can be toxic if I don‘t find a proper outlet for them, but when I do find a proper outlet, amazing things can happen. 1d

TheBookHippie My sheer will. Tenacity. I am not swayed. Immovable. No tact. And with @GingerAntics anger …my RAGE is misinterpreted constantly. Interestingly enough my love and loyalty are seen as threats. Allll could be toxic or viewed incorrectly. Everyday I wake up I chose -do I use all of this for good. 😶 1d

AmyG Absolutely. I tend to give people alot of “rope to hang themselves with”. Once I reach my limit with someone because of how they treat me or others….I am done. No more chances. I am quite rigid in that respect. 1d

ElizaMarie My compartmentalizm. I work as a psychiatric/mental health nurse. I engage with a challenging population and am not well-treated by most of my patients. I am able to remove myself from the nasty insults getting slung at me, do what needs to be done in the moment, and maintain my peace (which can be difficult). It turns into a problem when I do this way too much and build too strong walls. (But thats what therapy is for 🤍) 11h

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Chrissyreadit

Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype | Clarissa Pinkola Est�s Phd

This chapter was intense! Was there a quote or thought you want to discuss? Please post and share!
Have you ever considered what archetypes you embody? Both the light and shadow side?

GingerAntics Which chapter was this? I feel like I‘m lost. Sorry. My brain has not been working properly lately. I‘m hoping it fully engages again next week. 1d

Chrissyreadit @GingerAntics it‘s chapter 2 1d

GingerAntics OH I‘VE READ THAT CHAPTER!!! I feel so accomplished. Thank you! 1d

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Deblovestoread I really feel this quote. I feel like I have compartmentalized each section of my life based on that times trauma. My child self is one being raised by an angry mother whose words and hands struck out, my teenage rebel self who made horrible choices and so on. They each informed the next but also each lives in their little pocket if that makes sense. 1d

Deblovestoread So this quote really resonated with me “….or those with injured instincts still, like flowers, turn in the direction of whatever sun is offered.” 1d

TheBookHippie Mostly the creative and freedom things struck me. 🙃 1d

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Texreader

Swapping Stories: Folktales from Louisiana | Carl Lindahl, Maida Owens, C. Renée Harvison

I‘ve gotten quite a few cards out but a lot remain for the #fallcardswap. I promise to get them out when I‘m not so weary after work! @TheBookHippie

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GingerAntics

Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype | Clarissa Pinkola Est�s Phd

I can‘t remember who I was talking about this with a few weeks ago… but I did find both this book and this app with a complete deck in it. Maybe this is our next discussion on archetypes. lol
@Chrissyreadit @CaroPi, @Cuilin, @TheBookHippie, @Deblovestoread, @zezeki, @BookwormAHN, @PathfinderNicole, @ravenlee, @dabbe, @ElizaMarie, @ImperfectCJ, @nanuska_153, @nosufoxes, @lillinblue

dabbe Ooh, interesting. I know absolutely NOTHING about tarot cards. mean 🤔 3d

Chrissyreadit i love this!!! please feel free to add discussion posts! (I‘m delayed with chapter 2 also. ) 3d

Chrissyreadit I love Tarot!!!btw 3d

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lil1inblue Oooh, I'm intrigued! 😍 3d

BookwormAHN Sounds interesting 😺 3d

GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit I still need to figure out how to get my hands on this puppy! lol 3d

GingerAntics @lil1inblue @BookwormAHN doesn‘t it? I‘ve always been interested in the mythology and psychology behind tarot. Somehow, this popped up and sounded like just the thing I was looking for! I love when that happens. 3d

kspenmoll It‘s sounds fascinating. I want to get Maria Popova‘s based an tarot cards

ALMANAC OF BIRDS: 100 Divinations for Uncertain Days

GingerAntics @kspenmoll Oh, those cards would be pretty! 3d

GingerAntics @kspenmoll I have my eye on the banned books tarot deck and maybe a few others. There are also “Celtic oracle cards” that use the ogham alphabet that I would love to explore. 3d

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Texreader

Swapping Stories: Folktales from Louisiana | Carl Lindahl, Maida Owens, C. Renée Harvison

Six more cards going out tomorrow! #fallcardswap @TheBookHippie

TheBookHippie Yay!!!! Let‘s hope mine finds it way to you 😵‍💫😅🫠 5d

Texreader @TheBookHippie 🤞🏻 😁 5d

Chrissyreadit 💛💛💛 4d

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ravenlee

Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype | Clarissa Pinkola Est�s Phd

Hey #WildWomen - I haven‘t gotten into the discussions because my new copy (bigger print!) was stinky and needed airing out. I thought I‘d catch up this weekend, but I landed in the ER today for a few hours (tried to get a tattoo, now I have 3.5 octopus tentacles and that‘s it 😆 because I had a vagal seizure partway through) so my plans have…changed. I‘ll catch up when I‘m able! I‘m home, resting and recharging, and headed for okay.

CaroPi, Cuilin, kspenmoll, TheBookHippie, Deblovestoread, Chrissyreadit, zezeki, BookwormAHN, PathfinderNicole, GingerAntics, dabbe, ElizaMarie, ImperfectCJ, nanuska_153, ncsufoxes, lil1inblue

Chrissyreadit I hope you continue to feel better!!! 6d

Ruthiella Yikes! Wishing you a speedy recovery. ❤️‍🩹 6d

TheBookHippie Oh dear … hope you continue to recover!!! 🐙 6d

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thebacklistbook Had a vasovagal episode when I had my ears pierced, I know how much they suck! pamper yourself for a while. 6d

BookwormAHN Wild night, I hope get some rest and feel better 💗 6d

nanuska_153 Oh no! Hope you recover soon! ❤️ The octopus was such a cute idea though! Would you be able to complete it or you'll just leave it at 3.5 tentacles? It makes a very mysterious tattoo right now! 6d

julesG Hope you feel better soon! 6d

Bookwomble ❤️‍🩹 6d

Librarybelle Hope you feel better soon 6d

AmyG Feel better! 6d

Amiable Ugh! Hope you‘re feeling better now! 6d

Kenyazero Yikes, what a day! Glad you‘re resting. Sorry the day didn‘t go as planned 😨 6d

Cuilin Oh my gosh, take care. I hope you get to complete your tattoo at some point. 🐙 6d

Eggbeater I'm so sorry. It is just the cutest tattoo, too. Get some rest. I hope you can try again. 5d

dabbe W😮WZA! Hope you're feeling better soon! 💛💜🧡 5d

Kitta So cute! 🐙 will you get him finished at some point? I hope you feel better 5d

lil1inblue Hope you recover swiftly! FWIW, the tattoo is adorable. The octopus is a fascinating creature. I hope you can complete it at some point! 💓 5d

GingerAntics HOLY CRAP!!! Apparently you went a little too wild for your brain tonight. Hang in there lady!!! We will be here when you‘re ready to discuss. Take your time. Lots of hugs and relaxing!!! 4d

Bookperson96 Cute little fella. Speedy recovery to you! 🙂 1d

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ImperfectCJ

Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype | Clarissa Pinkola Est�s Phd

I've been having a lot of trouble with the way this book is written (so. many. words.) so I picked up the abridged audiobook on Libby, with Estes telling some of the stories and explaining some of the concepts, and I found it much more accessible. I think sometimes storytelling and writing are two very different things. Figured I'd mention the audiobook in case others are having trouble with the book as I was. #womenwhorunwiththewolves

dabbe 💛💜🧡 5d

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