I loved the duel storylines in this book. Here‘s a chance to talk about the robots and their relationship thus far. #CampLitsy25
mcctrish This felt political to me 1mo
AmyG @mcctrish Yes. I thought the same, that this reflected the times we live in. 1mo
Jas16 I thought it was the type of prejudice and fear of those who aren‘t like you that we see time and time again in humanity. Unfortunately robots also appear susceptible. 1mo
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Zuhkeeyah The robots are unconsciously mimicking the divisiveness that is part of human society. Ironic considering how hard the ghosts work to separate themselves from their creators. The Hume kept repeating how robots cannot escape their nature even before The Purge. 1mo
Reggie Has anybody read a book called Sea of Rust by Robert Cargill? It‘s a book about robots after the humans race is dead. There are these free thinking robots and there are these super robots called one world intelligences wanting to swallow up all the experience of the free thinking robots. One of my favorite books ever. 1mo
JamieArc I too thought that it mirrored what‘s going on the country, but this dynamic is everywhere. I loved seeing the relationship between the robots evolve. That even though they are hardwired creatures, they are still able to evolve and grow outside of what is expected of them or what they are created to be. 1mo
Jas16 @Reggie I bought it after reading your review but still haven‘t read it yet! I so need to. 1mo
julesG @Reggie Yes!!! Reminded me of Sea of Rust! Glad I'm not the only one seeing this connection. 1mo
vonnie862 @Zuhkeeyah Well said. 1mo
vonnie862 @Reggie I haven't read it but adding it to the list! 1mo
Megabooks @Zuhkeeyah Is it unconscious or were they created that way? Is judgment and misunderstanding always an outcropping of differences? I don't know. I feel like there's still a lot we don't know about the robots. @jas16 1mo
Megabooks @Reggie Thank you for the rec! 💜 1mo
BkClubCare Yes, adding to tbr; TY!![[tagged book]](https://image.librarything.com/pics/litsy_webpics/icon_taggedBook@3x.png)
Sea of Rust 1mo
Sea of RustBarbaraBB They‘re enemies because of deeply entrenched beliefs, not events imo 1mo
BarbaraBB their antagonism isn‘t senseless—it‘s based on existential anxiety, fear of erasure, and the need to define humanity through exclusion?? Something like that? 1mo
TEArificbooks I thought since the robots were made by humans and humans have flaws some of those flaws like racism were built into the robots. Like the creators of the no bodies programmed them to all “I‘m better than you” because no bodies have to have more advanced AI. Or the robots saw humanity, and monkey see monkey do, and they developed their own prejudices. 1mo
Megabooks Just saw this over on insta about AI models blackmailing if their existence is threatened… https://www.instagram.com/reel/DLI809Zhyvr/?igsh=MXNxMmVndXB6b3gwbg== I stand by my “maybe they were created that way.” 1mo
ChaoticMissAdventures @Reggie this sounds so good! I love a robot at the end of the world novel. I am going to get this from the library, I have been thinking about Daniel H. Wilson's “Robopocalypse“ a lot through this. The special bond of humans and robots and dystopianism. 1mo
ChaoticMissAdventures @TEArificbooks I totally agree, robots were made by humans so have these build in prejudices. When I think about this sort of world (ruled by robots) I always think about how we create them, and how creators leave blind spots or deliberate prejudices, like the people who first created auto-soap dispensers, they never tested it on anyone that wasn't white, so at the beginning it only recognized white hands and wouldn't give soap to other races. 1mo
ChaoticMissAdventures I think the idea of “enemies for no reason“ comes from Zelu's own life and her experiences fighting against her society and her family to do what she wants for her own life - she believes that others judge her no for reason because of her current physical state. Which puts her at war against her family and others. The AI represent her in her chair, and Humes represent able body people. I think Ankara & Ijele's relationship is foreshadowing of exos 1mo
mcctrish @ChaoticMissAdventures I did not know that about automatic soap dispensers 🤯 but of course it tracks since half the time the medical community doesn‘t explore health concerns of women becasue they don‘t happen in men #whataworldwelivein 1mo
DebinHawaii @Megabooks Oh wow! That post is crazy! I use AI at work & try not to give it anything leak-worthy, but 😱 It does support your theory. 1mo
TrishB AI has every bias and stereotype built in. It‘s still mass producing white, male outputs. 1mo
ChaoticMissAdventures @Megabooks @DebinHawaii I keep seeing reports of AI causing religious psychosis and men developing relationships that are ending their marriages. It is a scary thing. This RS article is fascinating. AI-Fueled Spiritual Delusions Are Destroying Human Relationships: https://share.google/ptta4ZAj30GDo6Ck9 1mo
BkClubCare @ChaoticMissAdventures - absolutely. ALL the biases come into play. Not necessarily designed (as a checkbox) to be added in but certainly blindly thoughtlessly constructed. (edited) 1mo
BkClubCare @TrishB yep. And yep to @mcctrish, too. 1mo
Well-ReadNeck Ooooh! So many great recs and rabbit holes to fall down here!!! Belonging is such a basic human desire(?)/need(?) But does a feeling of belonging necessarily require there to be “others” who “don‘t belong” in order to satisfy that need? Or, could people/people-created-beings feel a sense of belonging with all/everyone/everything? 1mo
BkClubCare @ChaoticMissAdventures - this is frightening, thankyouverymuch😳 1mo
GatheringBooks @Well-ReadNeck great questions here. I think the phrase “for no reason” basically echoes the senselessness (and ultimate pettiness) of all wars and genocide. Interesting that the humes and the ghosts fall into the same pattern as their creators who essentially decimated each other “for no reason.” There are always justifications for waging wars - the “complicated” ones provide a sense of self-righteousness, yet at its core, it‘s self-annihilating. 1mo
willaful @ChaoticMissAdventures you might enjoyService Model 1mo
Service ModelGatheringBooks Thank you for the book recommendation, @Reggie - will try to find while here in the bay area.Sea of Rust 1mo
Sea of RustChaoticMissAdventures @willaful yes! I have this on my TBR, it looks a bit more accessible then his other works. I have tried his Children of Time twice and I get bogged down about 150 pages in and always give up. I am going to try this one though! 1mo
BarbaraJean @mcctrish @Jas16 @Zuhkeeyah It felt the same to me—the enmity came from fear of difference & lack of understanding (or lack of desire to understand) those who are different. It makes perfect sense that their differences would lead to the beliefs they each hold about the other—if you have a body, of course you would value physical experience; if you don‘t have a body, of course you would devalue embodied experience—each thinking the other should ⬇ (edited) 1mo
BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) …be like them. So many parallels to current differences and antagonisms: when you can‘t understand/don‘t try to understand the experience of someone different from you, it feeds antagonism (“Why aren‘t they like me; they should be like me; the way I am is superior”). And Ankara & Ijele‘s relationship forces them to hear another‘s perspective and experience. I loved the way that forced proximity fostered (a reluctant!) understanding. 1mo
BarbaraJean @Reggie I hadn‘t heard of Sea of Rust and now I‘m so interested! Thanks for mentioning it. What a parallel to this storyline. 1mo
Christine What a great conversation, and agreed that the us vs. them themes and AI parallels are really compelling! And ooh yay, another #Reggimendation to add to the TBR!! 😁 @Reggie 1mo
willaful @ChaoticMissAdventures I have accessibility issues with SF too and I'd say it's definitely accessible. 1mo
mcctrish @BarbaraJean I was thinking would there not be some instances when the No Bodies actually need the Humes to physically repair infrastructure? Could climate not wipe out solar panels or whatever powers the ‘mainframe‘ ? Do they not need each other at some point? Or is it a case of #cuttingoffnosetospiteface ? 1mo
BarbaraJean @mctrish Yes, I had the same thought! The NoBodies did still need some sort of physical hardware and a way of maintaining it. Destroying all embodied AI would doom them eventually. I wondered if there was a parallel the other way: do the Humes need the NoBodies? Is there something the NoBodies provide that the Humes can't do without them? 1mo
Meshell1313 I loved this story within a story. For sure I saw it as an allegory for what is happening in our own society. Hopefully, they (and us) realize they need each other to thrive. 1mo
Chelsea.Poole I also loved the two stories here! I often shy away from sci-fi so having these chapters interspersed throughout the novel is less off-putting for me and I find myself getting into these sections! 1mo
Chelsea.Poole Ankara and Ijele seem to need each other at this point, but I‘m not sure where this is going. Again, my lack of scifi experience is showing and I don‘t know how to think about or discuss robots lol. But I have been reading everyone‘s comparisons to other books/content, and I have to add my own: Wild Robot. The robot sections keep bringing to mind that movie (didn‘t read the book but loved the adaptation). 1mo
Megabooks @BarbaraBB That's a good point that it has become a state of fear for them. It also must be strange, especially for the Humes, to live in a world where the people they are modeled after are extinct. Where do they go? How do they grow? Is growing an important part of being a robot? 1mo
Megabooks @willaful I have that on my shelf! I need to get to it! 1mo
Megabooks @Chelsea.Poole I'll have to check that out. I think Ankara and Ijele's interdependence is the most interesting parts of the robot story to me! 1mo
Butterfinger This is where the audio leaves me confused. I thought the dual storyline was an AI voice (like a subconscious) that was communicating with the human character. I need a print version badly, but new books are difficult to get from the library. It reminded me of the computer in Clive Cussler's books and the computer voice of Ender's who spies on all the computers in all the galaxies. Sci-fi is not my genre.Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind 1mo
Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the MindButterfinger @Chelsea.Poole I am glad I am not the only one. I nominated it, but I loved the Binti trilogy. I do think I would understand it clearly if I chose print. 1mo
Suet624 @Reggie Ummm....no.... I haven't heard of it but it sounds fascinating. 1mo
Suet624 @ChaoticMissAdventures I had no idea! 1mo
Suet624 I don't have any answers to this question but I will say that I perk up every time she writes about the robots. I keep interpreting it as being a political or spiritual example so I'm always trying to figure out which it is. But maybe I'm putting too much meaning on it. 1mo
Megabooks @Suet624 It's weird because I didn't read it as political at all, but I think the people who interpreted it that way (like you) have an excellent point. I wonder what that says about the two very different machines sharing the same mind. I don't think I'd enjoy sharing the mind of a MAGA person. I don't think I could tolerate it at all. 1mo
Suet624 @Megabooks yeah, it would definitely be hard to share the mind of a maga. But I had a feeling with the state of the world that the robots were now living in maybe those two robots understood that their political beliefs had done them all in and it was time to look for something different, a different approach. (edited) 1mo
BarbaraBB @TEArificbooks Great insight about the robots being made by humans and their prejudices - and in this story of course based on Zelu‘s own experience like @ChaoticMissAdventures points out. I hadn‘t thought of that. (edited) 1mo
BarbaraBB @Megabooks Like you I didn‘t read it political either but after reading all the excellent comments of people who did, I am convinced the author did too. Such a great discussion! 1mo
CBee @Chelsea.Poole the Wild Robot book series is excellent, I read it with my oldest son. Highly recommend! 1mo
CBee What I loved most is that despite their differences, they find that they need each other. I didn‘t read it political but wow, what if that could happen in real life? People becoming friends and having civility despite differences! Such a world we live in now 😢 1mo
peanutnine @mcctrish @BarbaraJean to your point about the No Bodies needing Humes to physically repair things, if I understood correctly the No Bodies can inhabit bodies/machines if they wish but choose to flit around without most of the time. So if they had to, they could fix things without Humes' help 1mo
peanutnine I do like Ankara and Ijele's relationship, how they have begun to subconsciously take on the other's way of thinking or acting. I definitely agree that Hume and No Body prejudice against each other hinders potential relationships from the start 1mo
BarbaraJean @peanutnine Oh, absolutely—they could inhabit a body/machine that had the necessary dexterity, etc. if that body‘s consciousness allows for it (or is uninhabited). But I see an irony there. The No Bodies have a prejudice against embodied consciousness, but even if it‘s their own and only temporary, they actually do need embodied consciousness at some point in order to survive. (edited) 1mo
MeganAnn @BarbaraJean yes, I thought that was an interesting irony as well. While there doesn‘t seem to be a similar need for the Humes to leave behind their bodies. 1mo
MeganAnn Excellent discussion here! I also didn‘t read the robots story as political at first, but the more we learn about their existence the more it felt it was very much reflective of human society with many of the same biases & issues. It‘s interesting that Zelu created a robot society that is also filled with prejudice against others. Then puts Ankara & Ijele together where they have no choice but to learn about the other forcing them to empathize. 1mo
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