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Killers of the Flower Moon
Killers of the Flower Moon | David Grann
Amazon Indiebound Barnes and Noble WorldCat Goodreads LibraryThing
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Beck9lol

I only found out about the movie today, but it looks like they already changed the book cover. I guess I‘m out of the loop. https://collider.com/killers-of-the-flower-moon-movie-filming-dates-scorsese/

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Wildly_Bookish
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Mehso-so

This is a difficult book for me to review. I finished it, I enjoyed parts of it, but I'm thinking maybe true crime just isn't the genre for me. It felt dry and factual, which is good for a true story. It was emotional to read about the murders of so many Osage that were never investigated and their killers never brought to justice.

CaitlinR I‘m not a true crime fan, but I did enjoy this. The historical details were great. 2w
Wildly_Bookish I want to read another true crime before I really judge whether I like true crime or not. Maybe something more modern day. 2w
23 likes1 stack add2 comments
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Wildly_Bookish
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Started this one tonight. It's a pick from my IRL #bookclub, #everythingbutselfhelp. I can't remember ever reading a TRUE crime book, so I'm excited to try it out.

21 likes1 stack add
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Come-read-with-me
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Pickpick

This was a book I discovered on Litsy and I am so glad I did. It‘s a sad but accurate description of the loss of tribal land/ interests by people more interested in wealth than preserving the culture and rightful heritage of the people living on the land. Crimes committed against a largely defenseless community - it was horrifying. I learned about the lengths people will go to in order to secure wealth. #NFNov, #TIL

Megabooks Loved this one! 1mo
Come-read-with-me @Megabooks It was amazing. I saw that it was being read and discussed by a group of people. Couldn‘t resist adding it my TBR list. 1mo
UnidragonFrag I loved this one, too, but it was truly horrific. 1mo
65 likes2 stack adds3 comments
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jlowery999
Pickpick

I believe every person should read this, or at the very least know the story. Such an incredibly sad part of American history and I can't believe I didn't know about it before reading this book. Admittedly at times a bit dry only because it is a non fiction story told by someone who wasn't there. But overall a fascinating book. I applaud the research.

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LauraJ
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Pickpick

This is a pick because of the tale told within, but not the way it was told. The first section is fascinating and then the book peters out. The text is large and widely spaced with lots of big pictures. The facts get repetitive and occasionally irrelevant. There‘s just not enough material for a 300 page book.
#nfnov

rsteve388 6 pts 1mo
63 likes1 stack add1 comment
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TheBookHippie
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Pickpick

Thanks all for joining us in this necessary read. 🍁🍂🧡📖 #BOTMBUDDYREAD

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks Yes, thanks guys!! We look forward to 1mo
32 likes1 comment
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CoffeeCatsBooks
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Pickpick

“In the 1920‘s, the richest people per capita in the world were members of the Osage Indian Nation in Oklahoma.” And then the murders began.

This was a compelling read but also heartbreaking. The injustice the Osage had/have to endure is just mind boggling. Like Radium Girls, it leaves you staggered at the greed and inhumanity of people.

#scarathlon #TeamStoker (non-theme) #24b4Monday #BOTM

TheReadingMermaid 🧟‍♀️ 1mo
49 likes1 comment
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TheBookHippie
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Further suggested reading ...#BOTMBUDDYREAD

Hooked_on_books Instead of the Dee Brown, I would suggest an excellent recent book, 1mo
mrp27 Adding some of these to my tbr. Thanks for the list! 1mo
35 likes3 comments
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TheBookHippie
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TheBookHippie
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TheBookHippie
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TheBookHippie
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Final #BOTMBUDDYREAD
Are you glad we read this?
Was it difficult for you?
Did we miss anything you‘d like to discuss?
Do you enjoy nonfiction?

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I‘m glad we read it, it was a difficult read though... I sadly didn‘t know about this 😞 1mo
Librarybelle A difficult read, but a necessary read. Like @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks , I didn‘t know about this. This is part of American history, and I‘m such a firm believer in knowing all you can about the past, as it does shape the future. Thanks ladies for another buddy read! 1mo
CoffeeNBooks I don't read much nonfiction, so I wasn't sure I was going to like this book. I'm glad we read it, even though it was such an emotional read. It made me sad, frustrated, and angry, but it was so well-researched and so well-written, that it was a compelling read. And definitely an important story to know about. 1mo
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Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @CoffeeNBooks I don‘t read much nonfiction either, but I‘m glad we read it... 1mo
mrp27 I was unaware of this so I'm glad I had the chance to read and discuss with you all. Such an important story. 1mo
Karisa Nodding along with you all. Tough, but important read. Glad we did this one. Thanks, @TheBookHippie for posting such thought-provoking questions each week. @mrp27 @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @Librarybelle @CoffeeNBooks 1mo
TheBookHippie @Karisa I‘m so glad we all read it together. 1mo
TheBookHippie @mrp27 I think it will stay with us. If we all tell one person and share our suggestion to read it I feel it honors them. 1mo
35 likes8 comments
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #9

The ballerinas story. The ballet. It‘s almost a Shakespearean tragedy ..this reign of terror, except it‘s real. 605 deaths. The blood cries out from the ground. Will they ever get justice ? Is our reading and discussing of this honoring their legacy?
Do you feel moved to educate others or yourself more?

MARIA TALLCHIEF MEMORIAL & STUDY GUIDE

http://www.californiaindianeducation.org/famous_indians/maria_tallchief/

CoffeeNBooks I think it's important for people to read this and know about it!My copy of this book is going to be added to my classroom library tomorrow, and it will be one of the featured books this week- I usually pick 10 books each week that I display at the front of the classroom, and I talk about them at the beginning of class throughout the week. I think reading and talking about this book honors the legacy of those who lost their lives. 1mo
Librarybelle It‘s so important to spread the word and share the story! This helps everyone remember. Awesome ballerina story! 1mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I feel that we are honoring their legacy by reading this and learning more about what happened... 1mo
mrp27 I like to believe we are honoring their experience by reading and discussing. I've discussed and recommended this book to several family members and hopefully they do the same. Sadly, I don't think they will ever get justice. (edited) 1mo
Karisa @mrp27 That's where I'm at too. . . 1mo
11 likes5 comments
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #8

Mollie remarried reported to be happy at last but still dead at 50. Do you think her sorrow and poisoning shortened her life? I so wanted to read that she lived to be 99. Shocker! Finding out Mollie and her kids were almost in the explosion, for the kids that their dad tried to kill them...unfathomable. How do they even function ?

CoffeeCatsBooks I just could not fathom this. How could you let your own child be murdered? I can‘t imagine how they must have felt when they realized that. 1mo
CoffeeCatsBooks I also have to give credit to Molly‘s spirit for trusting enough to love again. I don‘t know that I could have opened my heart again after such a betrayal. 1mo
CoffeeNBooks It made me so sad to read that Mollie and her kids were supposed to be at the Smith house that night. I can't imagine someone doing this to anyone, but especially not their own family. I agree @CoffeeCatsBooks - Mollie was an amazing woman to be able to trust someone enough to love again. 1mo
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Librarybelle I‘m sure everything Mollie went through contributed to her early death. Yet, to have the ability to find love again is amazing. She deserved some happiness, and I‘m glad she found it. Those poor kids - with that knowledge! Ugh! I can‘t even describe the feelings I have for Ernest and what he almost did to his kids. 1mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @Librarybelle I completely agree !!! 1mo
mrp27 After learning that Mollie and the kids were nearly killed made me feel like her husband married her deliberately to get his hands on her money. He seemed remorseful because he did confess but I find it difficult to reconcile that with the fact that he supposedly loved her. So insane. Glad she found happiness but surprising she died so young. 1mo
10 likes6 comments
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #7

The generational mistrust, sorrow and loss to this day ..
The panel missing.. Do you think the generational affects on the perpetrators is anything? If it were you, would want to apologize?

Librarybelle Admittedly, I find it hard to forgive someone sometimes. I thankfully have not been in such a horrific situation as the Osage, so I can‘t really answer on forgiveness. But, you could see the fear that generations still had, and you could see the hope. The past for them is filled with deceit, murder, corruption, and a coverup that will never be fully unveiled. Mistrust has to be up there as one of their emotions, even today. 1mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I‘m the same as you... I watched an interview with some of the family members and you can tell they are still deeply affected 😥 1mo
mrp27 I don't know I'd want an apology so much as I'd like to see recognition of the crimes, laws to protect a better world for the people that are left and more education in schools. (edited) 1mo
Karisa I kept thinking of that throughout the last chapters. How can it be made even somewhat right to those alive today whose lives were altered? How many children/grandchildren/great grandchildren of those who benefitted from the corruption are still living off the profits of that blood money? 1mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #6

It is almost impossible to fathom all the murder of the Osage. Did you realize how horrific Indians were treated? What were you taught about American Indians? Is any of it true? The fact that Hale was not unusual in his evil. Is this happening still today? Are Indians treated less than human still?

Librarybelle Indians still receive poor treatment, I am sure, though regretfully I haven‘t really read much about contemporary relations towards Indians and whites/the US government. None of this surprised me. 1mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I never realized how horribly they were treated and I can‘t say that I know how they are treated now... 😞 1mo
mrp27 I've always known Native Americans have been mistreated and vilified. The Trail of Tears is absolutely horrific and the many instances in which their land was taken or swindled away but sadly we didn't really learn about this in school. I learned more through reading on my own and watching movies. (edited) 1mo
Karisa @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks Same. I realized that there was racism and land grabs on a large scale (Trail of Tears). This book documents something more personal, eery, and equally disturbing. It shows individuals being treated as prey. It shows how misguided a belief in the "American Dream" is for so many. 1mo
8 likes4 comments
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #5

Whites admiration for Hoover... strange ??? AND was it better he died not knowing the mass murders of the Osage? Or do you think he knew?

Librarybelle I think it shows his loyalty toward Hoover. Maybe not strange, but certainly a devotion and perhaps a respect, knowing how hard it was to create a countrywide investigative bureau. As for the murders, I‘m sure he knew there was way more to what he uncovered, but without evidence and more manpower, you can unfortunately only do so much. 1mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @Librarybelle I agree that he felt loyalty and respect toward Hoover. I‘m sure he probably knew there were more, but I‘m glad he didn‘t know the extent. 1mo
mrp27 I agree with the comments above. White probably suspected there was more and I think he showed Hoover great respect. 1mo
9 likes3 comments
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #4

What did you think of White? His integrity is something not seen very often. Can you believe he kept going? Are there people like this still? Do you know any? Is this something to strive to be like?

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I loved him! I was sad that he didn‘t get the recognition he deserved. Sadly, I don‘t think there are many people in law enforcement as dedicated and with as much integrity as him in this day and time... 1mo
CoffeeCatsBooks @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks Unfortunately, I agree. I think that level of integrity is rare and am sadden that Hoover gave so little thought to him. 1mo
CoffeeNBooks I loved reading about him and learning how much effort he put into investigating and relentlessly searching for the truth. He seemed to have so much integrity- especially with Hale and the men who tried to kill him when he was the warden of the prison. 1mo
mrp27 I loved reading about White. Kind of annoyed Hoover didn't recognize him more. Wish there were more men and women in the world in politics and in law enforcement with his level of integrity. 1mo
9 likes5 comments
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #3

Are there recent examples of racial prejudice and injustice that parallel those described in Killers of the Flower Moon? What has changed about the approach taken by law enforcement? About the attitudes expressed by the white community in the face of racial or religious discrimination? In what ways have things remained the same?

Librarybelle I think in many ways, racial attitudes are the same. Looking at the unrest in communities like Ferguson, or even the proposed wall between Mexico and the US, just show me how we as a country have so far to go before we can talk about racial equality. I keep saying it - so sad!! It breaks my heart, and it makes me feel so much shame. 1mo
mrp27 Plenty of recent examples. The pipelines come to mind, the water in Flint, Michigan. I feel racial attitudes are primarily the same and racial inequality still exists. 1mo
Karisa Yes, unfortunately... Same old bullshit going on. Many of us not directly affected would like to think things are getting better and bury our heads in the sand. However, smartphones/social media/police video are showing there's still so much inequality and violence happening especially to those who have the least power. 1mo
8 likes3 comments
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #2

The crimes in Osage County involved many levels of deception and betrayal. In addition to the actual conspirators, who else either directly profited from the crimes or was silently complicit in them? In what ways did accepted mores encourage the corruption that plagued the investigation? We‘re Indians just not seen as actual people? Example of white privilege or bigotry? Fear? Ignorance?

Librarybelle There was so much corruption and coverup with this! I think Grann only scratched the surface, identifying additional layers. He‘s right that so many more were probably victims. What happened to the Osage is an example of the prejudice and hate felt against all tribes, and arguably against any non-WASP. So sad!! 1mo
mrp27 Total example of white privilege, ignorance, fear, corruption. I can't believe the corruption went so deep but by everyday people too just looking to make a money grab. 1mo
Karisa @mrp27 and @Librarybelle Agreed. The last parts of the book show just a glimpse of how big the outrages against Osage were. They were just one tribe of many, one group of many who have been treated as less than human by those in power here in the US. 1mo
7 likes3 comments
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #1

Mollie had to become a US citizen?
Indian Citizenship Act in 1924. Native Americans were finally granted free travel in the United States. Native Americans who live on reservations are free to travel as they wish. Was this a shock?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

Librarybelle Sadly, this wasn‘t a shock to me. I didn‘t know the specifics of all of this, but it didn‘t surprise me they were not considered US citizens, nor could they travel freely. 😞 1mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks Yes, very sad but not a shock.. 1mo
mrp27 I was totally shocked!! But felt like I should have known. 1mo
7 likes3 comments
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Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks
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Join us for our final discussion at 1pm CST on Killers of the Flower Moon!! All questions on @TheBookHippie page!!!

#BotmBuddyRead

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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD ending discussion today
2 PM EST 📖🧡 Questions posted here.

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks 🖤🧡🖤🧡 1mo
29 likes1 comment
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Librarybelle
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Pickpick

Reading books like this one makes me so angry for the coverups and the prejudices of the world. I am so glad Grann wrote about the atrocities against the Osage nation. I especially appreciated the last section, which delves into his research and his visits to descendants of the victims. This story needed to be told! Good book. Overall time on the top. The Dewey time in the middle.

#Deweys24hourreadathon #deweyoct #BOTMBuddyRead #24B4Monday

Andrew65 Progressing well. 😊 2mo
TheBookHippie ❤️📖 It makes me so very ashamed sad mad exasperated... 2mo
Gaylagal2 One of my favorites. It really pissed me off too 🤬🤓 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I totally agree!! 😡😡 1mo
Gezemice I read this earlier this year. I was flabbergasted. I could not believe how far this went. Well written and well researched, too. 1mo
82 likes5 comments
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Librarybelle
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Love this quote - “History is a merciless judge. It lays bare our tragic blunders and foolish missteps and exposes our most intimate secrets, wielding the power of hindsight like an arrogant detective who seems to know the end of the mystery from the outset.” #BOTMBuddyread

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CoffeeNBooks
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Pickpick

This was the very sad story of the Reign of Terror endured by the Osage tribe in the 1920s. It was sad, and extremely frustrating to read about how little the murders of the Osage were actually investigated. It was interesting to read about Tom White, a Texas Ranger who truly put all of his effort into investigating the murders, and the beginning of J. Edgar Hoover's bureau of investigation that became the FBI. #BOTMBuddyRead

Readswithcoffee I learned a lot reading this book. 2mo
CoffeeNBooks @Readswithcoffee I definitely did, too! 2mo
78 likes2 stack adds2 comments
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TheBookHippie
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squirrelbrain I was amazed to learn about this when I visited Alcatraz - I had no idea! 2mo
TheBookHippie @squirrelbrain As someone who parents were always protesting I was raised on it, I forget most people don‘t know or remember 50 years ago. They actually rowed around it in canoes this year to remind everyone they‘re STILLL waiting. 2mo
29 likes2 comments
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TheBookHippie
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Pickpick

Final discussion Sunday 2 PM EST
#BOTMBUDDYREAD
EVERYONE WELCOME that‘s read the book to discuss with us 📖❤️.

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Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks
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Final discussion on Sunday!! #BotmBuddyRead

https://youtu.be/cntWt2s5NcI

43 likes1 stack add
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Rj6578
Pickpick

Very good, wasn‘t sure what to think when I heard of it but finished it faster than I intended. From start to end it kept my attention.

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audraelizabeth
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Pickpick

I hate to say the FBI's response is no surprise. In many ways not much has changed on that front. This was informative as far as the history goes.
#botmbuddyread
#bfcr4 book 5 of 18
@wanderinglynn

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ScientistSam
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Pickpick

This book describes a period of murders targeting members of the oil-rich Osage Nation in the 1920s called the Reign of Terror. Learning about the murders and the motive was interesting but reading about how the Osage were routinely treated was infuriating.

This was essentially the FBI's first major case, and federal involvement was critical given the wide-ranging graft and conspiracy around exploiting the Osage head-rights (mineral rights).

CoverToCoverGirl Just recently read this myself.. it‘s truly terrible how the Osage were targeted and all for money. 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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...on April 21, 1931, a court ruled that Mollie was no longer a ward of the state: “IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED BY THE COURT, that the said Mollie Burkhart, Osage Allottee No. 285, ... is hereby restored to competency, and the order heretofore made adjudging her to be an incompetent person is hereby vacated.” At forty-four, Mollie could finally spend her money as she pleased, and was recognized as a full-fledged American citizen.

TheBookHippie #BOTMBUDDYREAD finishing this today. 2mo
Amiable Gorgeous photo! 2mo
britt_brooke Pretty photo! 2mo
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mrp27 I couldn't stop myself and I finished last night! @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks this is the passage I had mentioned earlier about Mollie becoming a citizen. 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @mrp27 thank you!! Beautiful photo ❤️❤️ 2mo
TheBookHippie @britt_brooke I love orange ! 2mo
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Mitch
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Cool display at Book People, Austin - every state has a famous crime and a book about it!

LeahBergen That IS cool! 2mo
marleed Oh that‘s cool - I‘ve read 3 of the titles. I wonder how I‘d fare across 50 states! DC might need it‘s own shelf! 2mo
94 likes2 comments
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD THANKS ALL!

When we picked to read this book last spring we had no idea we‘d be in the place we are in USA politics....so I realize for some of us this is hard. I‘m glad to be learning this. It‘s gives their lives more meaning as we learn about them and gives us more empathy and compassion I think . So thanks for reading with us! See you next week for our final discussion.

mrp27 It's been a great read, I didn't realize how much it would mirror today's politics! 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I totally agree! I‘m so glad we read this! 2mo
TheBookHippie @mrp27 Seriously me either. Just nuts. 2mo
Karisa Yep, tough read but important. Feels like through reading what they went through we are able to bear witness in a small way. 2mo
40 likes4 comments
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TheBookHippie
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_and_murdered_Indigenous_women
Research this week found:
There is call to figure out where all these missing women went. I saw this on candidate Pete Buttigieg site as part of his presidential campaign here is also an article.

https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/news/pete-buttigieg-wants-to-enhance-opp...

Why is this not news?
#BOTMBUDDYREAD

Karisa It sounds like many Native Americans are still cut off from access to services such as the Internet. Living in rural areas with systemic poverty and years of being powerless would make many want to further retreat for safety. Unfortunately, that would also make them easy targets. Horrible that the same type of problems still happen. 2mo
mrp27 Agreed! Reminds me a bit of all the women gone missing in the border town of Juarez over the years. You hear about it but never about anything being done. So many women gone missing and unaccounted for yet no one seems to care enough. 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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FINAL THOUGHTS #BOTMBUDDYREAD

Now what? What do you think we going to read next? Are you still invested in this? Hales thought of being untouchable. Do you think he is a sociopath ?narcissist ? Just evil personified ? Mollie? What becomes of her do you think?

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks Just pure evil.... Poor Mollie... I hope nothing happens to White at the prison!! 2mo
Karisa @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks Agreed. I've been watching way too much Orange is the New Black and they portray the inmates as moving about so freely with so much staff interaction. It must not really be so lax, right? I'm hoping that Hale/Ramsey don't have so much freedom. If they had even a fraction, White's a goner. 2mo
Karisa I'm having a tough time sticking with this one. Part of me hates admitting that humans (especially those in power) can be so horrible to others for personal greed and power when they already have so much. Then paying attention to the news lately just confirms it... 2mo
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CoffeeCatsBooks @Karisa @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I do think he is evil to plan a murder of your best friend and all those others. To set up your accomplices . . It just sends shivers. I do think he may be a psychopath to have that much disregard for human life. 2mo
TheBookHippie @Karisa I agree. It just all seems so dark. 2mo
TheBookHippie @CoffeeCatsBooks He seems to be evil personified. 2mo
CoffeeNBooks Hale is pure evil. What a horrible person! 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @Karisa ikr!!! It seems like the prisoners run the prisons!! 2mo
mrp27 I'm thinking there might be more to come as we still have 6 chapters left! I gasped when Hale and Ramsey showed up at Leavenworth. I think Hale is cold blooded, greedy and arrogant. Mollie just breaks my heart, all that grief she's had to endure only to realize her husband was in on it... despicable! 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @mrp27 I did too! I couldn‘t believe it!! 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #12

White becoming warden at the huge prison Hale and Ramsey landed at...justice ?

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I wasn‘t expecting this!! No, they deserved the death penalty.. 2mo
Karisa I'm against the death penalty. It felt like the book was suggesting that if they had been guilty of killing other whites that would have been the penalty. They better not have gotten out before their sentences were up. Way too callous of crimes. 2mo
CoffeeCatsBooks I know someone has to do that job, but I was kinda sad White ended up there. Those seem like very harsh places. 2mo
mrp27 Seems right that White ended up a warden, seems as if he is fulfilling his destiny. Even the ugliest places on earth with the ugliest of the human race deserve to be treated justly and humanely. Wish there was a warden like White in every prison. I thought it very interesting the jury was willing to sentence Hale and Ramsey to life instead of death. Wonder if the outcome would be different if the victims were white. I'm sad to say I think so. 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @mrp27 I totally agree... 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #11

White jury to convict a white man for killing Indians almost impossible ...I didn‘t even think of this and should have. How on earth does anyone get justice? Do you think the system works where you live? Comparing Indians to dogs, animals..

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks This part literally made me sick... so awful!!! 2mo
Karisa It hadn't dawned on me until the book pointed it out that the jury was all white. How can that be fair? I wonder if it was all men on the jury too? 2mo
CoffeeCatsBooks I think our justice system continues to be biased against people whether by class or race 2mo
mrp27 It didn't occur to me either but when I think about this, makes me ill. 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @Karisa it was all men if I‘m remembering correctly.. 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #10

White knowing the system was permeated with corruption. Is that how lawyers and advocates feel today? Is it just a given and you fight anyway? Do you try to outsmart the corruption? Do you think justice was served?

Karisa I think it's still around today. It's hard to face when the system is not hurting (or even benefitting) oneself. Watching things like "When They See Us," turning on Twitter, and even the nightly news are full of examples. All the racism, power mongering, greed... It can feel so hopeless. 2mo
mrp27 I like to think stricter policies are in place today to prevent the kind of wide spread corruption that Hale engaged in but it still occurs... Just listen to the news. 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #9
It is an established fact once Mollie was removed from Hale and her HUSBAND,she regained her health. The totality of being worth your land and money due you for injustices upon your race.Mollie refusing to believe her husband was after her... thoughts on all this? Both sides disliked Mollie for her dealings and called her ignorant ? Was it that or self preservation ? When she finally divorced him we‘re you relieved? Devastating.

Karisa Molly was so alone. Wasn't her whole family except for two of her children dead by this point? I think it was too horrible for her to accept that her husband was in on it all along. 2mo
CoffeeCatsBooks @Karisa I agree. It probably took her a while to be able to process it and accept it. I hope the she found a place in the community again eventually although I am sure your faith in humanity would be forever destroyed. I image she probably became even more of a recluse. 2mo
CoffeeNBooks I feel so bad for Mollie. One of those circumstances would have been horrible, but to have to endure so many deaths/illness/etc. and then find out her husband was involved, must have been devastating. 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I echo all of these comments.. so sad... 2mo
mrp27 So heartbreaking. I can understand Mollie refusing to accept her husband was involved, that's a tough pill to swallow about someone you love. I was happy and relieved when she divorced him. Mollies standing in society is so atypical of people of mixed marriages, both sides can ostracize you. 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #8

All these witnesses: shot, poisoned do you think anyone even knows all the dead? Such an elaborate plan. For money?! Oil rights? Is it deeper than we are going to read about???

Karisa It does seem impossible to count the number impacted. Even some of the children that weren't directly killed but placed in harmful situations due to all of the plotting. Hale is the mastermind for this particular plot, but there had to be other "guardians" setting up problems for other Native Americans through their greedy actions. 2mo
CoffeeNBooks I'm sure there were probably many more victims. It could be that the book just didn't talk about all of them, or many of them were never investigated. 2mo
mrp27 Crazy diabolical planning on Hales part down to the order that the victims were killed. Makes me wonder if someone bigger than Hale is involved. Could he be the sole mastermind? I don't know. Seems so complicated that there has to be more to the story. 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #7

The Indians fleeing and not trusting the government AND they had to PAY to find their own murderer ? So shameful ... can you see this happening today? Why is it pushed aside?

CoffeeCatsBooks It was shocking to me that they had to pay Justice and then receive so little effort for so long for their money. Sometimes the injustice in the news is too depressing to watch. You hope things will move in an on-going positive direction but that is clearly not the case. (edited) 2mo
mrp27 I wanted to rip my hair out when they author mentioned that Mollie eventually became an American citizen. I had to read that line twice I was so incredulous. 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @mrp27 I missed that!! I‘ll have to go back! 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #6

Hoover. What do you make of his tactics ?
What should he have done if anything?

mrp27 Wish I knew more about him other than the sensational stuff. I can see where it makes sense that he did the things he did to help build the FBI but he did seem like an ego maniac. 2mo
mrp27 I wish he supported his men more instead of making it about him. 2mo
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks He‘s self serving... he didn‘t give credit where credit was due... 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #5
Reformest zeal of progressivism ...I actually read that as Protestantism. Freudian slip or is this the beginnings of the alt religious right? How deep does this go? Columbus? Did the Indians ever have a chance? Can you imagine no hope of ever getting your culture back? Is your culture altered? Is this part of history for everyone?

Karisa That was my feelings too. It feels like they never had a chance. No matter what the Osage did, they couldn't win. Even money did not give them any power over their situation and just drew in people who'd prey on them. 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #4

4. Hale controlled everyone and “seemingly could not be punished...” ARROGANT, haughty, seemingly above the law. Remind you of anyone? Is this always the way with politics and money? Who was looking out for the Indians ? Did Hale feel because they were Indians what he did to them was of no consequence ?

CoffeeCatsBooks I wonder if he would have done this to anyone who stood in his way. I certainly think that they were Osage made it much easier for him to get away with it for so long. Considering how many non-tribe members he killed, I think it likely he would have killed anyone for wealth. However, I think the tribe members made perfect victims for him. 2mo
CoffeeNBooks I'm guessing Hale felt that because they were Osage, what he did was of no consequence. 2mo
mrp27 I agree, Hale didn't see the Osage as people so no consequence there and his arrogance and privilege totally reminds me of a certain clown. 2mo
LauraJ @mrp27 Right. It seems the federal government and the Osage did what they could to protect their interests. 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #3

What did you think of the quote at this point of the story?

Karisa The quote sums up Hale perfectly. He thought he was above the law. Just because he was rich and seemingly affable in public no one would go after him. I think there are some still today like that. Willing to hurt the weak and scheme for loopholes to grab all they can. 2mo
CoffeeNBooks @Karisa I agree- he definitely thought he was above the law. 2mo
mrp27 It always seems to be someone you know, hiding in plain sight. 2mo
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TheBookHippie
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#BOTMBUDDYREAD #2

Hales masterminded vicious sinister plot to get mineral rights ? Where you stunned at the lengths of it all? Do you believe things this sinister still happen in the world of oil?

Karisa It was all so sickening. Then to have a hung jury. The book mentioned that it seemed like everyone agreed what was happening but some just didn't see it as murder (saw the Osage as less than human). Horrible. 2mo
Karisa The diagram you found is very helpful. So many greedy names in the mix at this point. I'm having a hard time keeping them all straight and remembering where they fit into the corrupt puzzle. 2mo
TheBookHippie @Karisa I was so happy to find it!!! It‘s just mind boggling!!! 2mo
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CoffeeNBooks This picture definitely helps show the lengths Hale went to in order to make his plan work. He and his cronies were such despicable people! 2mo
TheBookHippie @CoffeeNBooks EXACTLY, it‘s like I can‘t believe it‘s real and you look at this and it‘s hard to stomach. 2mo
mrp27 Surprised how complicated it all was. Not surprising that he would bump anyone off that was involved but seems so risky to outright kill so many people. Not naive enough to think that this doesn't happen today but I wonder at the same time if he could have gotten away with it today. 2mo
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