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All Fours
All Fours | Miranda July
106 posts | 73 read | 2 reading | 30 to read
A 2024 BOOK OF THE YEAR PICK FOR BBC R4 OPEN BOOK, THE OBSERVER, GQ, GRAZIA, HERO, I-D, NYLON A semi-famous artist announces her plan to drive cross-country from LA to NY. Thirty minutes after leaving her husband and child at home, she spontaneously exits the freeway, beds down in a nondescript motel and immerses herself in a temporary reinvention that turns out to be the start of an entirely different journey. Miranda Julys second novel confirms the brilliance of her unique approach to fiction. With Julys wry voice, perfect comic timing, unabashed curiosity about human intimacy and palpable delight in pushing boundaries, All Fours tells the story of one womans quest for a new kind of freedom. Part absurd entertainment, part tender reinvention of the sexual, romantic and domestic life of a 45-year-old female artist, All Fours transcends expectations while excavating our beliefs about life lived as a woman. Once again, July hijacks the familiar and turns it into something new and thrillingly, profoundly alive.
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review
Maggie4483
All Fours | Miranda July
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Mehso-so

I absolutely hated the first 3/4 of this. Part of the problem was that I looked up July‘s Instagram before I started reading, and could not separate the author, who I found to be a self-indulgent exhibitionist, from her main character. However, it was very well-written (although it dragged in parts), and the stuff about aging resonated with me.

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RowReads1
All Fours | Miranda July
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I guess I should read this one 😂.

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notreallyelaine
All Fours | Miranda July

And, of course, in a patriarchy your body is technically not your own until you pass the reproductive age.

3 likes1 stack add
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Abailliekaras
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

Provocative and much talked about, I liked the on point writing and sense of humour, but didn‘t love the far-fetched & self-indulgent elements. Then again, I‘m all for more women telling their stories in a world that still seems to be dominated by men. The menopause side doesn‘t interest me that much but is resonating with many. Frank & intelligent, a good book club pick.

mcctrish There was a lot in this book that just made me go 😬 but I still think about it because it is a strong and provocative book 👏🏻👏🏻 3w
Abailliekaras @mcctrish yes very strong 3w
26 likes2 comments
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Augustdana
All Fours | Miranda July
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Had to sit directly in the sun today after work and read in my favourite park. It didn‘t help, but it also didn‘t hurt.

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JuniperWilde
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ I couldn‘t put this down. The writing is crisp, honest, and funny. A book about love and relationships in all their forms. I‘m drawn to portrayals of midlife female MCs experiencing an awakening (and full expression) in their sexual, relational, and personal lives.

15 likes1 stack add
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mjtwo
All Fours | Miranda July
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Mehso-so

1-7 Oct 2024
Not sure how I felt about this book. It was challenging - in that the main character‘s journey was far removed from my life, my preferences and my values. Her actions were totally incomprehensible to me; the sex made me cringe. There was no aspect of her experience I wanted for myself. Ultimately I related best to Harris - wondering wtf was going on. But it kept me reading, even if I did not really like it. I did love Jordi.

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JuniperWilde
All Fours | Miranda July
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(Photo of author Miranda July holding her hit novel All Fours) I am loving this book. It‘s edgy and creative and liberating. I can‘t wait to see where it ends up.

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Avanders
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

It‘s weird reading about a 45 yo woman w a 7 yo who sets out to transform herself on a long solo road trip… while being a 45 yo woman w a 7 yo about to take off on a long solo road trip (tho mine was planned months ago…😜).The book is bizarre, well-written, intense, a little crazy, & quite good. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Also, showing off our holiday pillows as the correct seasons settle in…

And sending #AllHallowsReadSwap #ahrs pkg tmrw! (Early bc of road trip)

AmyG Safe travels! 3mo
BethM Drive safe! 3mo
TheBookHippie Safe journeys friend!!! I did one at 23 and 49. Itching to do it again!!! 3mo
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Ruthiella Just stay clear of Monrovia, CA and you should probably be OK. 😅 3mo
dabbe Be safe and have the trip of a lifetime! 🧡🤎💛 3mo
MaleficentBookDragon Sounds exciting, where are you going? 3mo
Avanders @AmyG @BethM @dabbe Thanks!! 🍁🚗♥️ @TheBookHippie thanks!! I‘m a bit of a roadtrip junkie and I definitely haven‘t had my fill in the years-post-buggy. Very much looking forward to this fall trip!! 🍁🍁🚗🍁🍁 @Ruthiella 😂😳😅 excellent advice! 😎 @MaleficentBookDragon “back home” in a variety of ways — last year, I promised myself a midwestern fall trip - visiting family in Gb, Eagle River, and Chicago, and then *alone* in beautiful Missouri… ♥️ 3mo
BethM You know there‘s -ahem- a certain Litten that lives on the way to GB 😂 3mo
BarbaraBB This sounds so good. Have a fab time and like @Ruthiella says, avoid Monrovia 😀 3mo
Anna40 Have a safe trip filled with wonderful adventures 🏕️🚙 3mo
Avanders @BethM lol you know I wasn‘t sure exactly how “on the way” it was - I‘ll email you and we can see if something is possible! 😉 @BarbaraBB @Anna40 thanks!! 🍁🚗🍂 (and lol Monrovia will be avoided 😁) 3mo
mabell Oh what a crazy coincidence!! Have a fabulous time! 2mo
74 likes12 comments
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Avanders
All Fours | Miranda July
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Progress! 🤓

Finished Bulletproof ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ I think they‘ve found their old spark again, or maybe it was the heavy nod to Only Murders 🤔☺️

Murderous Christmas ⭐️⭐️⭐️💫 A cozy cozy! I‘ll definitely go back to read the 1st!

Listening to Mad Love on audio - a relatively quick murder mystery w a full cast. Def recommend so far!

Bubba & I are listening to the Zoo on road trips 🤩♥️

The tagged is for #reallifebookgroup… interesting so far! 🫢

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BkClubCare
All Fours | Miranda July
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I have Grace on loan from a friend, All Fours Libby/eBook came off hold (of course 🙄), picked up the Heyer yesterday from the library, and have had Untamed on my shelves for awhile - something made me grab it today 🤷🏻‍♀️

I STARTED EACH TODAY! I am supposed to read Atwood‘s The Robber Bride for a club meeting next Wednesday and Kaleidoscope is my current audiobook. #OhDear #WhereToFocus #Overwhelmed #Distracted

* Had a job interview a.m. 😢

BkClubCare Thanks for asking; nah, not sure but I think I presented as a desperate inarticulate loser. #ohwell 3mo
BkClubCare #Oct2024 Book89 Ended up skimming thru to read the end and … I am ambivalent. 2mo
33 likes1 stack add2 comments
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Avanders
All Fours | Miranda July
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Books update 🤓

Still finishing Sept‘s #cbbc, but up next is the tagged (a 2nd‘ary choice for #reallifebookclub) then the Cleo Coyle, my Sept #SeasonalCozies selection. I‘ve been meaning to check out their other work for a long time & I‘m finally doing it!

I also happen to be listening to their 20th (!) in the Coffeehouse Mystery series - definitely one of the better ones! ☕️🩸

Also rec‘d my #fffs package! Thank you @PatriciaU -I‘m so excited!!

Chrissyreadit i do not know the coffeehouse series! sounds like it‘s fun! 3mo
PatriciaU Yay! Hey, that Cleo Coyle series looks good! 3mo
julieclair The Cleo Coyles look like fun! 3mo
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Avanders @Chrissyreadit @PatriciaU @julieclair they are fun! They‘re set in Manhattan, in a break from the usual cozy model, but they‘re still in a coffee shop, don‘t worry 😁 The early ones are a little dated, but they catch up pretty quickly. ☺️ 3mo
BethM Ohhh I haven‘t read the Cleo series in a long time. 3mo
Avanders @BethM for me, it kinda sagged a smidge, but I always enjoy going back to the Village Blend and the recent books seem to be picking back up ☺️ 3mo
50 likes6 comments
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JuniperWilde
All Fours | Miranda July
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Just started and already enjoying this one. I see mixed reviews here. I‘ll try not to read them so I can have a fresh experience. 📚

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Kazzie
All Fours | Miranda July
Pickpick

Amazing!! She is such an interesting writer. Her sex scenes are strange but real and hot. She also writes honestly about being peri menopausal. Will read again

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Melismatic
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

Where to begin? This book felt like a car crash in motion. You felt it the entire time. The central character is infuriating, willfully destructive, sometimes pathetic, sometimes woefully misogynist/ageist. She‘s always on the verge of seeing her behavior for what it is, blinks, and continues doing it. But isn‘t that life for some people?

Frustrating? Yes. Thought-Provoking? If you can stomach it, yes. The Litsy rating makes sense. 🤷🏻‍♀️😅😤

BkClubCare Yeah… I didn‘t hate it, I just didn‘t… care. I really thought I would find it thrilling but I just didn‘t feel much at all. 2mo
Melismatic @BkClubCare I get that too. This felt like one of those books that was take it or leave it. (edited) 2mo
BkClubCare @Melismatic - a friend of mine LOATHED it and of course, I wanted to know how I would react. But found I wanted to spend my time elsewhere. 2mo
30 likes3 comments
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mcctrish
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

This is a weird book. Initially I was not impressed & almost put it down, then I got kind of swept up. Then it was just too much information, too much emotion, too much sex. But inside my head is too much sometimes, like could I just fucking shut up & give it a rest. That‘s what MJ wrote 🤯 her weaving of perimenopause into this was perfect and I had no idea about ghost baby syndrome. This is totally a book that has to be finished. I like Jordi

Amor4Libros Your review is perfect!! This book is wild 🤣 3mo
41 likes1 comment
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Melismatic
All Fours | Miranda July
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I‘ll be honest, this started slow for me but has taken an unhinged turn and I‘m seated and here for it.

I went into this book cold solely because it was named the Book of the Summer by a local bookshop since they sold an unprecedented amount of copies. I‘m getting why…and I‘m also slightly concerned/suspicious of my neighbors. 😅

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks So pretty 😍 3mo
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mcctrish
All Fours | Miranda July
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My library hold came in for #camplitsy #betterlatethannever

ChaoticMissAdventures After reading and discussing I am still so curious what each new reader thinks! Did you read any of the discussion or do you plan on looking back at them? 3mo
mcctrish @ChaoticMissAdventures I didn‘t read any at the time. I alternated between waiting for my library hold and buying the ebook at the time. We were on the tail end of travelling so I decided to just wait for the library hold. I read 3 in real time ( Clear, Butter and James ) then holidays hit. I‘ve read The Alternatives, now this and still waiting for Bear. 3mo
41 likes1 stack add2 comments
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ICantImReading
All Fours | Miranda July
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Mehso-so

⭐️⭐️⭐️

This book is really… something. Cringy and weird but also compelling and insightful, it‘s like the proverbial car crash you can‘t look away from. I can see why it was such a buzzy book this summer and I can appreciate how it‘s unflinchingly honest. 🎧

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ItsAnotherJen
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

I wish I knew someone else who has read this so we could talk about it! I figured this would be right up my alley being the same age as the main character. Trying to figure out peri menopause/menopause and how it will impact life. But I couldn't really relate to her mid-life sexual awakening and/or crisis. Her personality is def different from mine. I had a hard time with some of the scenarios she gets herself into. I'll give it a light pick -⭐⭐⭐

BarbaraBB If you‘re interested, we‘ve discussed this book on Litsy and for me that added a lot to the book. If you scroll back on @Megabooks page you‘ll find 6 questions about it! #CampLitsy24 4mo
ItsAnotherJen @BarbaraBB Thank you! 4mo
Megabooks I hope you enjoy reading the discussion!! 4mo
ItsAnotherJen @Megabooks I did! I really wish I read it at the same time you all did. It was interesting to see how many of my own thoughts were shared by others 4mo
Megabooks Yes! Check out the books for Camp Litsy when we announce next April/May. A lot of folks just join us for a book or two, but it would be great to have you the whole summer, too. Littens nominate and vote on the books to read, too, so watch for that announcement in early April if you‘re interested. @BarbaraBB @squirrelbrain and I have done it for 3 summers now! 4mo
68 likes5 comments
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CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

Wow wow wow what a journey. I loved July's short story collection and was underwhelmed by her first novel, so I wasn't sure what to expect from this one, but it really resonated with me, especially as a feminist bisexual mom. There were a lot of insights that blew me away. I loved the protagonist‘s relationship with her best friend, the subversion of the road trip story, the look at complicated birth trauma, and the sheer weirdness of it all.

Teresereading I bought this yesterday at a writers festival! 4mo
BarbaraBB Great review! I loved it too 4mo
Kitta I didn‘t like this, despite being a feminist bisexual too, although maybe not being a mom and not experiencing perimenopause (yet) made me unable to connect with the narrator. Her decisions seemed so odd and I hated how she lied to her husband (why did she marry him in the first place?). Definitely an interesting read but it didn‘t resonate with me. Glad you enjoyed it though! 4mo
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CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian @Kitta I do think what resonated for me what the mom stuff and how it interpreted with my queer/feminist identities, so it makes sense that it might not have for you in the same way! Have you read any of her other books? 4mo
CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian @Teresereading hope you like it! It's a bit of a wild ride. 4mo
Kitta I haven‘t! Any recommendations? 4mo
Kitta Thanks! 3mo
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MMFinck
All Fours | Miranda July
Bailedbailed

I just couldn‘t. The character wasn‘t someone I could relate to. Certainly my issue, not the author‘s.

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MMFinck
All Fours | Miranda July
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Just starting. The protagonist‘s voice is very strange. I hope I come to like it! 🤞

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Roary47
All Fours | Miranda July
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Current books I‘m not a super fan of.

BkClubCare Okay! Hadn‘t seen this, i am OK with it 4mo
24 likes1 comment
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Kitta
All Fours | Miranda July
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Dropped off at a local #littlefreelibrary! I hope someone else enjoys it more than me 😆

kspenmoll I bailed too. 4mo
BarbaraBB 😀 4mo
Hooked_on_books What a beautiful LFL! 😍 4mo
39 likes3 comments
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CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian
All Fours | Miranda July
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"But thoughts don't work like that. You don't pick them like pears from a tree, they just fall on your head."

"No reason was turning out to be a major theme in life. Generally speaking, when real pain was involved, there was no reason, no one to hold accountable, no apology. Pain just was. It radiated with no narrative and no end."

"Motherfucker... I was referring to life itself."

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CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian
All Fours | Miranda July
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"We only felt right when we were saving a life together, fixing a flat tire by the side of the highway. We only became us against insurmountable odds. The rest of the time we respectfully forgave each other for utterly failing to be what we felt we deserved. And then some of the time we were fucking furious about this and it seemed impossible to continue."

Ooof

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ImperfectCJ
All Fours | Miranda July
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#CampToB was very kind to indulge my rather extensive discussion questions for the second half of All Fours. You can check out the conversation here: https://www.tournamentofbooks.com/camp-tob-2024/week-10-all-fours

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CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian
All Fours | Miranda July
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Okay, I'm 50% in and while I still love this character / Miranda July's voice, I am a little sick of Davey. I know a lot of littens have read this. Does he continue to dominate the novel? Or does she move on to something more interesting?

Ruthiella He‘s an important part of the story, but yes, she does move on. 4mo
CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian @Ruthiella that is great to hear, thank you! 4mo
29 likes2 comments
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Eggbeater
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

It's explicit. It's not for everyone. I found the book to be refreshing. Not all menopause looks the same for everyone.

Also, it illustrates the reason why I'm glad I have a short-haired dog. Read it, and you'll see.

arlenefinnigan I'm intrigued! 4mo
The_Book_Ninja I bought this for my wife. I secretly want to read it🤭 4mo
46 likes2 stack adds2 comments
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Bookbuyingaddict
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

1st half hilariouslyfunny& willresonate with most ladies in their 40s50sthey don‘t call itthe change for nothing ! Thesecond half;depressingly sadwhat‘s wrongwith being a straightfemale?Nothing wrong with not,but not everyone wants to jump into bed with the samesex oreveryone just to “try it “ because marriage is soboring ! Idid enjoy it& I‘m a great believer in be who you want to bedo what youwanttodobutDON‘T playwith hearts,it‘s notcool 2b cruel

Suet624 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 4mo
BarbaraBB Great review! 4mo
41 likes1 stack add3 comments
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Amor4Libros
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

I was going to come on here and say that this book ended up making no sense and I don‘t know what I just read…

What really happened is that I related to this book a lot and will probably be processing it for a while.

But, there were parts of it where she completely lost me and I didn‘t know what was going on.

Overall, I am glad this book exists, but I also can see why a lot of people bail on it.

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Lesliereadsalot Crazy as this book was, I was really happy to have read it. I still think about it weeks later! 4mo
Amor4Libros @Lesliereadsalot 100% agree! I‘m glad I did not give up on it 4mo
47 likes1 stack add2 comments
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ImperfectCJ
All Fours | Miranda July
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The first half (through Part 1) discussion of All Fours is up on the #CampToB website! https://www.tournamentofbooks.com/camp-tob-2024/week-nine-all-fours

Seeing the discussion here really helped me craft my questions (awesome leading, @Megabooks !). If you're interested in seeing my questions or jumping into the conversation, check out the link!

Megabooks Thank you so much!! Excited to take a look! 4mo
Megabooks Love that you asked about Parkers vs drivers. I couldn‘t fit that in but found it very interesting! 4mo
ImperfectCJ @Megabooks I had a lot more space in the ToB venue :-) I pushed the envelope on the second section questions and might have to pare them down. Once I started thinking about the book, there was just so much to say about it (and I don't even really like it that much, it just brings up so many questions for me!). 4mo
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Megabooks 💯💯💯 agree! 4mo
BarbaraBB Great questions and discussion! There‘s so much to discuss about this book. I already loved it but this again added much! 4mo
ImperfectCJ @BarbaraBB The discussion on the CampToB site is really interesting so far! There's a commenter there who says that they read the novel as satire (although they ultimately decided it wasn't), and now I feel like I need to go back and read the whole thing again through that lens! I'm really excited about how people engage with the questions I have for the second half! 4mo
BarbaraBB I always love Ridgeway‘s contribution to the ToB discussions. I know she‘s not the one you are referring to but she‘s always active in the discussions and she‘s very eloquent 4mo
29 likes7 comments
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Amor4Libros
All Fours | Miranda July
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“We looked at each other in the mirror, very seriously and then slowly smiling. Sex was great, but this. This was something we‘d never do with anyone else. Our thing.”

If you‘ve read this book, you know what just went down! I admit that I‘ve been VERY CLOSE to DNFing this a few times, but July‘s got my attention now and I need to see where she‘s taking me.

Lesliereadsalot I thought this book went interesting places. Of course she‘s an oddball, but I felt she had real emotions. 4mo
Amor4Libros @Lesliereadsalot I‘m completely hooked right now. You‘re right, the emotions feel so real. I have to put it down, for now, but I don‘t want to! I also need to charge my Kindle, before it dies on me on a really good part 😅 4mo
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VRM1975
All Fours | Miranda July
Pickpick

.

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CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian
All Fours | Miranda July
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"Without a child I could dance across the sexism of my era, whereas becoming a mother shoved my face right down into it, a latent bias internalized by both of us suddenly lept forth in parenthood. It was now obvious that Harris was openly rewarded for each thing he did while I was quietly shamed for the same things. There was no way to fight back against this, no one to point a finger at, because it came from everywhere." (cont'd in comments)
??

CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian "Even walking around my own house I felt haunted, fluish with guilt about every single thing I did or didn't do. Harris couldn't see the haunting and this was the worst part." HAS MIRANDA JULY BEEN SPYING ON MY BRAIN?? 4mo
Suet624 😂😂😱😱💕 4mo
Ruthiella Yes! I remember this quote as well. 4mo
Christine @Ruthiella Same!! Though I would later DNF, I‘m grateful for the #CampLitsy24 introduction to the book if only for this spot-on passage! (edited) 4mo
37 likes4 comments
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Bookbuyingaddict
All Fours | Miranda July
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Hey 👋 #camplitsy iv only just started this and so far it‘s grabbed me ☺️ think it‘s gonna me a winner for me. Great podcast about it on the weirdos bookclub , surprised by the low ratings on here , maybe it‘s more of a middle aged book ??? Who knows but happy reading and happy camping 🏕️ sorry I‘m late to the bonfire 🔥😆

BkClubCare I‘m looking forward to it; I just feel buried by books I want to read ! 😩 5mo
sarahbarnes I loved this one, too! ☺️ 5mo
BarbaraBB I loved it too! 5mo
jhod I started yesterday and loving it so far too! Will follow the discussion, thanks for them @Megabooks ! 5mo
Megabooks I loved it, too! I hope you enjoy looking back at the discussion!! 5mo
42 likes5 comments
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CaseyTheCanadianLesbrarian
All Fours | Miranda July
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"I am forever wanting to know what it feels like to be other people. What were we all doing? What the hell was going on here on earth?"

"False modesty is one of those things it's hard to go easy on, like squirting whipped cream from a can."

I am four minutes into this #audiobook and I love it already.

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DebinHawaii
All Fours | Miranda July
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Panpan

#ReadAway2024

Read for #CampLitsy24 I just couldn‘t with this book. While the train wreck of an MC was hard to look away from & I stuck with it for camp, I cringed hard through most of it. I can take an unlikable character, but it felt like every action from both the author and the MC was to get a reaction & it just didn‘t feel authentic to me. I don‘t know if listening to the audiobook read by the author made things better or worse.🤷🏻‍♀️⬇️

DebinHawaii …The discussions were excellent & thought provoking & I truly appreciated them. Thank you @Megabooks for the hosting of such a crazy pants book! 😉 5mo
dabbe #fanofthepan! 🤩🤩🤩 5mo
DieAReader #Next 👋🏻👋🏻 5mo
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Hooked_on_books I completely agree. It felt performative and purposefully provocative in a way I didn‘t like. I felt like all the things about menopause that are really worth exploring and talking about were buried under sex that was made purposefully gross. 5mo
DebinHawaii @Hooked_on_books Yes! ⬆️ This exactly! You just said it so much better than I did! 😉 5mo
Graciouswarriorprincess I only read a chapter and just couldn‘t. 5mo
Megabooks You're welcome! It was a bit crazy, and I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the book, but I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion! I felt like they went really well this month, which is always our goal. 😁 😁 5mo
squirrelbrain Fab review though! 🤪 5mo
63 likes8 comments
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BookishTrish
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

10+ hours in two days. I could not stop listening.

Blueberry 💙🫐 5mo
BarbaraBB You should scroll through the #CampLitsy24 discussion about this book, it made the experience even better! 5mo
48 likes1 stack add2 comments
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Megabooks
All Fours | Miranda July
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Look out for a vote for best July book tomorrow. I *think* I know which book will win 😉, but #CampLitsy24 does have rules! If you'd like to be added to or removed from the tag list for August, please let us know in the comments and tag @squirrelbrain, too, as she is the holder of it now. Have a great weekend! Don't forget the bug spray. I've been eaten alive by mosquitos this week.

See All 44 Comments
Kitta I felt the photographer role play was a way for them to find each other again and discuss hard topics. She was so avoidant of discussing things with him and through pretending it gave her a way to discuss what had happened without him reacting as himself. I thought it was an interesting way to change their dynamic. She seemed dissatisfied or uninterested in their sex life beforehand - and this sort of allowed them to be more honest. 5mo
Kitta Their new relationships and the way they interact with each other seems healthier than the beginning of the book. So I think it‘s a good thing they worked something out, but staying married and living together seems like an odd choice. I get they want to keep stability for Sam but I wonder about the future of this arrangement long term. Will her husband be happy to stay married or will he want to marry his new partner? Is this sustainable? 5mo
Bookwormjillk My feelings about Harris were complicated. I‘m not sure they would have been able to talk without playing roles. But also Harris man, I understand this lady is a lot but let her have her lions in the living room! Either way it seemed like they all lived happily ever after? 5mo
Bookwormjillk @Megabooks I didn‘t dislike this book as much as some others but I commend you for being able to come up with questions. Mine would have been huh? Why? And what the heck? A person spending an entire month ignoring all responsibilities to perfect their own butt isn‘t based in reality 🤣 5mo
Megabooks @Bookwormjillk I'm glad they seemed to be at peace with things in the end. It's not what I would've chosen, but I don't judge others for living different lives. I think if he had had more flexibility, and she could've been more honest that the marriage might have been salvaged. And thank you! I enjoy coming up with these questions with @squirrelbrain and @Barbarabb!!
5mo
Megabooks @Kitta I don't think they could've been as honest without the role play. I wonder about stability for Sam and sustainability long term, too. It seems like other partners may want more than Harris or the MC could give in a relationship, and there may be hard decisions in their future. 5mo
Ruthiella @Bookwormjillk 😂😂😂 I also commend @Megabooks for coming up with thoughtful questions. 👍 5mo
AmyG I found their relationship to be quite shallow. I found much of the writing to be satirical…they ARE from LA. 🤣 I agree with @Megabooks ….they needed the role play to be honest and communicate with each other. Her relationships with other people….she seemed to be allowing herself to “feel” with them….in a way she couldn‘t or was afraid to do wih Harris. (edited) 5mo
TheBookHippie I quit by this point. I think she‘s a narcissist. And shallow as @AmyG says I get its satire but it to me was horrific. I commend you for handling the discussions and questions so well. I do not like how women are portrayed here or queer identities. 5mo
JenReadsAlot I was skimming the book by this point as I was annoyed with the relationship! 5mo
squirrelbrain @Kitta I wonder about this stability for Sam - the rest of their lives seem so chaotic, why is presenting a stable marriage to their kid so important? And it seems like quite an old-fashioned view compared to their views on everything else. 5mo
squirrelbrain It felt more like a business transaction to me too @AmyG but I can‘t figure out what was the benefit to each of them. Maybe they were both frightened of losing Sam if they left the marriage? 5mo
Deblovestoread I could never quite figure out if Harris was so controlling or if the MC just didn‘t care in the beginning. They both seemed pretty checked out from their marriage with Sam as their only connection. I can‘t imagine their current situation is sustainable. 5mo
Deblovestoread Thanks for being a great counselor this month! @Megabooks 5mo
GatheringBooks Loved @Kitta‘s take on all this - and pointing out the need for the role play. I think the entire marriage is based on role play, like they were acting out what it means to be a cisgendered nuclear family while providing their child the option to choose their eventual gender when the time is right for them - and also trying to be as authentic to their selves as possible until it wasn‘t any longer. And they needed to try something wholly different 5mo
AmyG Them staying together for Sam….I wonder if that was showing how many couples stay together for their child while leading separate lives? I read this with alot of”these are show biz people from LA”. Satire. 5mo
Megabooks @squirrelbrain it seems they could‘ve worked out a custody arrangement… 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ 5mo
Megabooks @AmyG totally LA, but I think this is autofictional enough that the author was exaggerating some but not totally. 5mo
DebinHawaii I made myself finish the book last night in hopes of contributing to the discussion as I didn‘t last week but again I feel like I just can‘t find anything of value to add to everyone‘s insightful comments & experiences. I REALLY disliked this book & especially the MC who I felt looked for every excuse for her behaviors but herself & her bad choices. I don‘t think anyone can compare menopause experiences, mine differed from my friends‘ but I just⬇️ 5mo
DebinHawaii …could not relate to her or her actions at all. For me this book was a train wreck I couldn‘t look away from 🤦🏻‍♀️ & I cringed through the entire audiobook. Funny story but I gave my direct report (30s, new mother, avid reader) a ride home from the airport Wednesday & she saw it on the screen in my car & said she had to stop reading it & we both burst out at the same time “It‘s so cringey!” 😆⬇️ (edited) 5mo
DebinHawaii … Anyway, I appreciate the hosting & thought provoking questions @Megabooks & enjoyed reading the great discussions despite disliking it so much. (Can you tell what book I‘ll be voting for?) 😉 5mo
TheKidUpstairs @Deblovestoread I agree that it doesn't seem sustainable. It feels like more of a check point before figuring out what comes next, something that works for them for now. But I kind of like that - nothing is wrapped up with a bow, but they're far more committed to talking things through with eachother and keeping tabs on what is or isn't working. I think role playing the photographer allowed Harris to sort of side step into a new conversation 5mo
youneverarrived I definitely think the role play allowed her to be more honest with Harris. For whatever reason she wasn‘t able to be intimate with him in any form without putting on a face or hiding something. It read to me like they‘d been together since very young and just sort of grew away from each other while staying together so I was shocked when she said they met when she was 34 or so. 5mo
youneverarrived I don‘t see why they can‘t have that sort of relationship where they stay together for Sam but pursue their own desires but like others have said how sustainable can it actually be long term? 5mo
Hooked_on_books Because they were actually communicating honestly in the end, I think they were in a better place with each other, which is great. But anyone who ever said “stay together for the kid” has clearly never been the kid. The kids know stuff is up! And it‘s not a healthy thing to do for anyone. Split and figure out custody and everyone will be better off. 5mo
BarbaraBB @youneverarrived I felt that way too about them meeting when they were very young. And I wasn‘t that shocked about how they were behaving towards each other. I guess I‘m a bit LA myself lol living in showbizz capital of the Netherlands 😂 @AmyG 5mo
TheBookHippie @DebinHawaii I have never disliked a character more than this one! 5mo
RaeLovesToRead I know that some people find it easier to talk to each other indirectly, but honestly, I found their lack of frank communication with each other incredibly tedious. If you can't talk to someone about your core values, needs, and feelings without resorting to sexy roleplay, it probably isn't a healthy adult relationship. 5mo
RaeLovesToRead It worked as a plot device though. To be fair, not much of how the MC behaves makes a lot of sense in this one 🤣 5mo
RaeLovesToRead Also, I'm not bashing anyone else who has incorporated sexy role-playing into their relationship to help resolve disagreement. I'm now imagining someone dressing up as a police officer to reprimand their partner for not doing the dishes 🤣🤣 Whatever works! 5mo
AmyG @Megabooks Agree. But parts were just way exaggerated. And BarbaraBB 🤣 5mo
Meshell1313 @Deblovestoread yes! My thoughts exactly. More roommates/partners than in love. 5mo
Meshell1313 I love reading what everyone thinks of Harris. I too couldn‘t really figure him out- what does he want? Was he happy the way they were going? I don‘t think anyone would be. He just likes being a dad? Also- I keep thinking of the ending of Clear! Everyone is redefining traditional family roles. Love it! 5mo
squirrelbrain @RaeLovesToRead - I too found it incredibly tedious. A bit like a Rooney book where millennials fail to communicate, but with much more sex! 5mo
RaeLovesToRead @squirrelbrain Ugh, yes!!! 🤣 5mo
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Megabooks
All Fours | Miranda July
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Question 2! I am not a mom and found this aspect of the book scary. #CampLitsy24

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Bookwormjillk I found this very scary as well! I was glad she found someone to talk to. 5mo
Kitta She definitely has some PTSD from it, I get flashbacks and have a PTSD diagnosis, and although time helps a bit, you need therapy to deal with what happened. I think the experience left her frightened and feel like she needs to be in control. And also kind of nostalgic for the time when Sam was in the NICU in terms of her relationship with her husband. It brought them together. Complex emotions. I‘m glad she found someone to talk about it to. 5mo
Megabooks @Kitta I'm sorry about your diagnosis. I agree she needs a good therapist to work through it. I have a lot of medical trauma and continue to need a lot of medical care, and EMDR was tremendously helpful for me! 5mo
sarahbarnes It‘s an interesting question how this experience drove her actions in the book. I wonder if having a traumatic birth meant she was anxious about raising Sam in a way that led her to lose herself in her marriage and parenting. Although it seems like many women lose themselves in these things whether they had a traumatic birth or not. 5mo
Kitta @Megabooks I‘ve done EMDR! It was so helpful and now I can actually talk through what happened. That wasn‘t possible before. I‘m sorry to hear about your medical trauma. That must be so hard when the treatment involves more medical care! I spend so much money on therapy but the flashbacks have stopped and I‘m learning to trust people again. I‘m so much better but still have a ways to go to being “fully” healed. Idk if you ever totally get over it. 5mo
AmyG Again, what @sarahbarnes said…how that experience drove her actions. She was everything to everyone…seemed a “control what she could” sort of thing. The experience with Sam was something she couldn‘t control in the least. I think she lost herself as a result of the birth of Sam. And Arkanda….has to help talking to someone who had the same exact experience, understands what each other went through. 5mo
TheBookHippie I have CPTSD from childhood. I had horrific pregnancies 18 years apart and then almost died of a ruptured ectopic pregnancy when my son was 7 months old. Then another loss and my uterus pulled. I was in my 40s. People treated me differently constantly telling me I had to be grateful and could never complain about motherhood because of what I went through. It was 😵‍💫. I however did not act like this. It‘s her. I get the control thing but 😵‍💫⬇️ 5mo
TheBookHippie ⬆️she had other unresolved things. Blaming menopause is a bit much for me to swallow. She wanted her youth and freedom. And went about searching for it. To say this is menopause would be wrong. The idea of it yes. The hormones of it, no. 5mo
sarahbarnes @AmyG the point of control is a good one. The fact that she couldn‘t control what happened with her baby probably did drive the way she subsequently tried to control everything else…to her eventually feeling lost. 5mo
TheKidUpstairs That moment with Arkanda was such a powerful one. That release of being able to scream it out with the only person she'd ever found who actually truly understood the experience. Because even the message boards she found, they were all parents whose children had not survived the trauma, so they could only give her so much, and they probably added a layer of survivors guilt to her PTSD. 5mo
JenReadsAlot That trauma is real and will impact someone. She needs a good therapist. 5mo
Larkken @TheBookHippie I agree that her birth experience should be divorced from her actions. I am sorry to hear about your experiences, they sound deeply affecting. But I think there‘s a valuable point the author makes here about the trauma we can carry from a bad experience with a “good” result, or even from one that is invisible to the outside world, and that it would affect the mc in ways that she felt unable to deal with 🔽 5mo
Larkken 🔼 I found her after-birth experience incredibly relatable having gone through a terminal pregnancy. Not only are both experiences invisible to most, I much like the mc found a difficult time finding people with whom I could relate about it. Even to lurking on the message forum - she felt she couldn‘t fully relate to the other women on there, who had gone through her situation without a living child, but she still found comfort in that sisterhood. 5mo
TheBookHippie @Larkken having been through 3 terminal pregnancies myself I‘m sending you so much love. I‘m living proof trauma can turn out good I just did not like or relate to this MC at ALL. Which is why I didn‘t finish the book🤣. I‘m happy for those who liked this but the narrative is extremely harmful to women as a whole. 5mo
GatheringBooks I am truly grateful for all the trust that you have given this group and all your sharing about past trauma, and your finding ways to heal yourselves in various ways. I am a clinical psychologist and I am glad if the book has found spaces within some of you to identify or even disassociate yourself with the MC‘s rightly-questionable decisions and actions. I found the patting ritual prior to having an intimate conversation quite fascinating. 👇🏼 5mo
GatheringBooks (Cont) the lives of the incredibly rich and famous seem worlds different- almost like a parallel universe - whereby intimacy can be threatening and needs to be “vetted” almost. That being said, there was powerful connection in that shared experience that was singular, despite the very evident power imbalance in the relationship. 5mo
Deblovestoread I was glad she found someone whose birth experience was similar to hers. We all know the value of having someone who gets it. But the getting to this conversation was a pain. I think Sam was the only thing keeping her from blowing up her life entirely. 5mo
youneverarrived I thought it was interesting that she said she felt closest to her husband during that traumatic time and that once it was ‘over‘ she didn‘t seem to be able to be herself with her husband/she was sort of harking back to that intensity they experienced. I feel like she was craving that as she seemed to feel really alone in her trauma/ptsd. The scene with Arkanda was really moving. 5mo
Hooked_on_books This is the kind of thing I wish the book had focused on instead of all sex all the time. We don‘t talk about difficult/dangerous births often enough and they‘re more common than people want to believe. So bringing this aspect to the forefront of the book instead of gross urine/tampon scenes would have been so much more impactful. 5mo
BarbaraBB What @sarahbarnes says, I am wondering if the birth experience drove her to this “crisis” years later. It seems plausible to me without the trauma too. 5mo
BarbaraBB Also agreeing with @GatheringBooks. It‘s really wonderful how you all dare to confide and share within this group. I feel very grateful for that. 5mo
TheBookHippie @Hooked_on_books I preach this all the time. I was a doula for teen moms for 28 years. Many babies died, many moms died. I almost died, my friend almost died- no one talks about this out loud because it‘s seen as a flaw or you aren‘t woman enough or in the case of my moms, they deserved it. It‘s ridiculous the shame assigned to traumatic birth stories. It needs to be talked about. Also that abortion saved our lives. 5mo
Hooked_on_books @TheBookHippie Exactly! In the name of “protecting” women, we have instead been controlled, including the narrative of what happens to our bodies. If we had been talking publicly about abortion in an honest way all along, I don‘t think we‘d be at the place we are now. If medicine had not always been focused on men‘s bodies, studies would have included women and we‘d have more equitable care. This is why fighting for equality is vital. 5mo
TheBookHippie @Hooked_on_books all of this. Abortion is healthcare and it saves lives. Saved mine twice. 5mo
sarahbarnes @youneverarrived I do think that‘s interesting. It seems like they moved along different paths after the birth and away from each other. I don‘t remember much of anything about how Harris processed the traumatic birth, but I can imagine maybe he was able to move on in a way she wasn‘t. And as you said, she wanted to get back to a time when they were in sync like that. 5mo
youneverarrived @sarahbarnes yeah I don‘t think we get much about how Harris was feeling but it did seem she was in a different headspace to him after it all went back to ‘normal‘. 5mo
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blurb
Megabooks
All Fours | Miranda July
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This is our last week discussing All Fours. It has been great to be your counselor this month for All Fours and James! The discussions have been fantastic and brought a much deeper experience to my thoughts on each book. Thanks for participating. @squirrelbrain is up next months with The Alternatives first followed by Bear. I hope you join us then, too! #CampLitsy24

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Kitta It certainly had an affect on her, she made some decisions I definitely wouldn‘t have done! I thought she used menopause symptoms as an excuse for her behaviour. At the beginning she even lies saying it‘s menopause to her husband before she realizes it actually is. She didn‘t take responsibility for her actions although she did discuss some of it with her husband (finally!) the end, I felt he still needed to know more about what was going on. (edited) 5mo
Bookwormjillk I think it affected her mentally way before it affected her physically. I think she panicked about getting older, and realized the life she had wasn‘t what she wanted. 5mo
Megabooks @Kitta I agree that it was a bit of an excuse for her. I am roughly the same age as her and definitely have my moments where I feel like I'm losing my mind, but I still manage to not create a giant mess of my life. I wonder how much of that was the author wanting to express the MC's artistic temperament. I, for one, am much more introverted and analytical than artistic and extroverted. 5mo
Megabooks @Bookwormjillk Yes, she definitely had a panic-y meltdown. I never really believed in a midlife crisis as an excuse for certain behavior, but hitting your 40s makes you take stock of things that are and aren't working and who you want to be for the next 40 or so years until you die. 5mo
sarahbarnes @Bookwormjillk @Megabooks agreed. I think it was the idea of menopause and what it means that affected her most. It really does make you take stock of your life (and possibly panic a bit) to hit that point. I think the idea of menopause added to the discontent and restlessness she was already feeling and made her examine that from an additional angle. (edited) 5mo
AmyG I agree with @sarahbarnes ….she was nearing menopause and the thought of it really affected her. She wanted to do HER….as she was a wife, a mother, had a business…..she did for everyone else. And I also think she was trying to live the last of what she percieved as her youth. A lasp gasp in a way. 5mo
sarahbarnes @AmyG last gasp - that is well-put. And yes, I think she had a feeling of running out of time and wanting to do “her” too. 5mo
TheKidUpstairs I think it was big that she didn't know she was in perimenopause when it all began. When she discovered that, it was like it gave her a frame to start working with. Before she was all wild, electric shock but she didn't know where it was coming from, and that was a lot of the panic and chaos. Once she had that information, she started to slowly (and with a lot of mistakes) build a framework for a post-menopause life that she could live in (cont'd) 5mo
TheKidUpstairs It is something so common in mental health, and especially in women's health - the diagnosis comes so late, it can make everything feel like chaos and like you don't fit but you don't know why. But a diagnosis can act as a starting point to re-order that chaos into something that works for you, even if it doesn't make sense to others. 5mo
squirrelbrain @Kitta - I agree that she used menopause as an excuse for her behaviour. 5mo
squirrelbrain Interesting thoughts @TheKidUpstairs - I think the MC was already coming from a heightened level of behaviour than most of us so the menopause made her actions seem even more wild. 5mo
TheKidUpstairs @squirrelbrain she definitely started from a heightened place, which is probably why she wouldn't necessarily realize there was something effecting her behaviour until she was further down her chaos spiral. And I agree with you and @Kitta that she was all too happy to grab onto menopause as an excuse, and while it was certainly a factor it can not take all the blame for her actions. 5mo
Deblovestoread The fact that she used menopause as an excuse gave her enough self awareness that something out of the norm was going on with her. She chose not to address it and allowed herself to fall into the chaos her emotions were creating without regard to what she might blow up in the process. 5mo
GatheringBooks @squirrelbrain agreed about the MC already demonstrating a heightened sensitivity and hyper-awareness - quite common among high creatives and gifted individuals, really - and how this was made even more intense by perimenopause. I honestly started paying more attention to the novel when this came into play as i think there are very few novels that tackle this theme with such wild abandon - and i found it oddly exhilarating in all its irreverence. 5mo
Megabooks @GatheringBooks as someone who is experiencing heightened emotions and creativity as a part of perimenopause, I think it is a different than what I read is supposed to have happened. I‘m writing when I haven‘t in years. My brain is more kinetic than my 30s. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ @squirrelbrain @TheKidUpstairs 5mo
TheKidUpstairs @Megabooks that's so interesting! We know so little about women's health, it seems like everything we're taught is about our bodies in relation to how they can serve others. Most of what we hear about menopause is about fertility and hot flashes, about how our bodies can no longer be used to procreate. Changes like you describe are so personal, internal, and solely female that the male dominated health research wouldn't be interested cont'd 5mo
TheKidUpstairs @Megabooks that's so interesting! We know so little about women's health, it seems like everything we're taught is about our bodies in relation to how they can serve others. Most of what we hear about menopause is about fertility and hot flashes, about how our bodies can no longer be used to procreate. Changes like you describe are so personal, internal, and solely female that the male dominated health research wouldn't be interested cont'd 5mo
TheKidUpstairs @Megabooks Women deserve a truly female focused study on menopause (and everything else to do with women's health!). Not just focused on what ends with menopause, but also with what begins. 5mo
ChaoticMissAdventures @Bookwormjillk @kitta @megabooks I agree, she used menopause as an excuse to behave badly. I think it was more of a midlife crisis, she even talks at one point in the beginning aout why do men get to have MLC and buy convertables and go crazy but women are not allowed to act the same. 5mo
ChaoticMissAdventures @GatheringBooks totally agree! I found it very refreshing to see thing tackled in a novel, the straight talk about not only peri/menopause but the lack of restrain she allowed for herself, I was interested in seeing how far she would go. 5mo
ChaoticMissAdventures @TheKidUpstairs I think you nailed it women are over and over again trained to believe everything about our bodies and lifes are for service to others. I think that is what was nice about this book, to see a woman just rush into doing what her heart desired, it was way too far, and mostly real life women would not, but it was a nice escape for me to see her really focusing and putting her family on the backburner. 5mo
Megabooks @TheKidUpstairs 💯💯💯 that‘s why I loved this book written by a gyn that specializes in menopause care!! It‘s the first book that made me really understand the changes I‘m experiencing and gave me some ideas about how I can control the negatives I‘m having (hot flashes atm) without sacrificing positive changes. We know so little about peri and post menopause!! 5mo
TheKidUpstairs @Megabooks ooh, I'm going to stack that one! 5mo
Hooked_on_books I agree with @Kitta that menopause was an excuse. I also agree with @ChaoticMissAdventures that this was more a midlife crisis than anything for her. 5mo
BarbaraBB Well said @TheKidUpstairs about menopause for the narrator as well as about the focus that should be on what begins too. Like @Megabooks implies, one word can not describe what it means to us individually 5mo
BarbaraBB @Hooked_on_books @ChaoticMissAdventures Yes to the midlife crisis. I can much more relate to it that way. Like @TheBookHippie mentions in question 2, the need to feel young is not menopause per se. (edited) 5mo
RaeLovesToRead I think a lot of the problem was her perception of how society views women after a certain age. Halfway through the book was OOZING toxic attitude and it made me so sad. Although I was definitely more invested in the first half of the novel, at least the second half went some way toward debunking the nonsense about sexuality having a time limit. 5mo
TheBookHippie @BarbaraBB personally I think she was a narcissist afraid of losing her youth and herself 🤣🤣🤣 but yes, menopause can not make you resent losing your youth in an of itself. I may be too old and too far from it to be commenting I so so do not miss my uterus. 🤣🤣🤣 and I like my own age every year I get one to live. 5mo
Meshell1313 @Bookwormjillk yes! Almost like a mid life crisis! 5mo
Meshell1313 @ChaoticMissAdventures yes! I totally agree with you about the midlife crisis. I also enjoyed the fact that she was living for herself for a moment. Maybe because I‘m in my 40‘s that I liked it so much! 5mo
squirrelbrain @Hooked_on_books @ChaoticMissAdventures @BarbaraBB - I agree with the mid-life crisis thing, but I also feel that most of can‘t afford to have one! Certainly not like the MC anyway - whether that from a monetary POV, or a working life POV or a relationship POV. 5mo
BarbaraBB @squirrelbrain Oh absolutely not in this way. She is so privileged which made the story a bit ridiculous but I think that added to the story which was all in all a bit over the top. @Hooked_on_books @ChaoticMissAdventures 5mo
peaKnit @Megabooks agree, on The New Menopause. That combined with other books I‘ve read and podcasts, I feel empowered to check out HRT rather than just “accept” this new phase. I am also talking about it with friends, this feels like a decent time to be experiencing menopause for me because people are talking and teaching finally. 5mo
42 likes43 comments
review
jenniferw88
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick
review
Deblovestoread
All Fours | Miranda July
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Mehso-so

Looking forward to the discussion tomorrow. I would have DNF‘d this but it was so outrageous to me that I was able to suspend belief and just go along with the train wreck that was the MC. 3 🌟. #CampLitsy

review
Bookwormjillk
All Fours | Miranda July
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Mehso-so

This book was strange, thought provoking, frustrating, funny, confusing, and weird all at once. Not my favorite, but I‘m looking forward to discussing it tomorrow for #CampLitsy

JamieArc My thoughts too! 5mo
62 likes1 comment
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Bookwormjillk
All Fours | Miranda July
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Hoping for the stamina to finish this tonight!

dabbe 🖤🐾🖤 5mo
AnnCrystal 💕😻💝. 5mo
50 likes2 comments
review
MicheleinPhilly
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

Pretty batshit but I‘m firmly in the “liked it a bunch” camp. I‘m not sure what that says about me. #CampLitsy24

sarahbarnes 🩵💯🩵 5mo
squirrelbrain 🤪🤣😉 5mo
BarbaraBB We‘re a great camp 😇 5mo
Suet624 I really liked it too and my 50-year-old daughter and I still talk about portions of it. 4mo
61 likes1 stack add4 comments
review
ChaoticMissAdventures
All Fours | Miranda July
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Pickpick

I really enjoyed this. Thanks #CampLitsy24 I don't think I would have picked it up without you. Our artist narrator (does she have a name??) is going through a midlife crisis, and perimenopause. I love books that give us messy women, & this one does. Our artist is looking for more, and she falls into lust with a young guy who works at Hertz. The randomness of it all works well for me.Yes she is rich & eccentric, I also think she exudes honesty

Caroline2 I really liked this one too. One 5mo
BarbaraBB Great review. Glad you liked it! 5mo
ChaoticMissAdventures @BarbaraBB I am sad so many others didn't like it at all!! I love an unexpected well written book. 5mo
BarbaraBB Me too, I loved the unexpected! 5mo
sarahbarnes Glad you enjoyed it! Great review. I really liked it too. 5mo
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