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Under a White Sky
Under a White Sky: The Nature of the Future | Elizabeth Kolbert
40 posts | 31 read | 33 to read
The Pulitzer Prizewinning author of The Sixth Extinction returns to humanitys transformative impact on the environment, now asking: After doing so much damage, can we change nature, this time to save it? That man should have dominion over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth is a prophecy that has hardened into fact. So pervasive are human impacts on the planet that its said we live in a new geological epoch: the Anthropocene. In Under a White Sky, Elizabeth Kolbert takes a hard look at the new world we are creating. Along the way, she meets biologists who are trying to preserve the world's rarest fish, which lives in a single tiny pool in the middle of the Mojave; engineers who are turning carbon emissions to stone in Iceland; Australian researchers who are trying to develop a "super coral" that can survive on a hotter globe; and physicists who are contemplating shooting tiny diamonds into the stratosphere to cool the earth. One way to look at human civilization, says Kolbert, is as a ten-thousand-year exercise in defying nature. In The Sixth Extinction, she explored the ways in which our capacity for destruction has reshaped the natural world. Now she examines how the very sorts of interventions that have imperiled our planet are increasingly seen as the only hope for its salvation. By turns inspiring, terrifying, and darkly comic, Under a White Sky is an utterly original examination of the challenges we face.
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Pickpick

I read the Sixth Extinction and got so much out of it, I wasn‘t sure there would be more really “new” in this one. I was so very wrong. Kolbert does her usual brilliant job of looking at projects humans are working on, visiting them, talking to the people involved, all while letting us see how these parts add up into a bigger whole. The focus this time, humans trying to fix things that went bad after we fixed them the last time (but made them⤵️

Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ worse)…. and a bit of a warning about how this current bunch of human interventions to do what we decide is best for nature, might not be “best” either. 1y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa I read this at the same time I read Wilding, by Isabella Tree, which emphasis is more hands off, and with unexpected positive consequences…great if unintentional pairing. 1y
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Blaire
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Pickpick

A book about “people trying to solve problems created by people trying to solve problems.” Kolbert visits a number of sites where scientists are coming up with technological methods to combat climate change - the solutions needed are drastic, expensive, not guaranteed to work, may have unforeseeable consequences - but may also be our best option. It is incomprehensible how this has become a political issue when the risks are so dire

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ncsufoxes
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Pickpick

Another April #bookspin book as well as a #shesaid book that I listened to as an audio book. I found it fascinating if not a little frightening at times. It‘s fascinating to hear what scientists are doing to combat climate change. But also a little frightening to know that some times they don‘t know what they are doing or if what they are doing is correct. My husband‘s a scientist (PhD in Genetics) & he says all the time for every change made

ncsufoxes There is an equal consequence (which was discussed in various examples in the book). I think the most frustrating thing is all of these highly intelligent people are working to find answers & as stated in the book, it‘s not up to them it‘s up to lawmakers to enact their recommendations (which we know how well that‘s going). I recommended it to my 18 year old son that wants to study marine life & ecology (he‘s interested in coral regeneration). 2y
Jenken1998 I wanted to get to this last month but didn't. I hopefully will this year. My 19 year old son is studying environmental science and chemistry. 🥰 smart kids 2y
TheAromaofBooks Great progress!! 2y
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ncsufoxes #nonfiction2023 prompt: Strange Fruit (as we continue to modify animals, environments, food through science we are entering some strange things happening) 2y
ncsufoxes @Jenken1998 smart kids indeed. My son initially wanted to do biomedical engineering but after going to Hawaii last spring break he realized he wanted to study ecology (he loves being in the ocean & surfing but during covid wasn‘t out in the water much). Now he‘s transferring colleges from an engineering school to a school with more marine studies & opportunities. Good luck to your son! Hopefully our kids can have big ideas to change things 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Great review and prompt choice! (edited) 2y
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AnneCecilie
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Pickpick

This book started out looking at how climate change is changing the world, like the flooding of New Orleans and the destruction of The Great Barrier Reef.

Then the book started to look at how we humans are trying to change this. And this part scared me because we don‘t have the best track record trying to change something we are the reason for. So changing the DNA of cane toads in Australia to stop their spreading or dimming the sun, makes me

AnneCecilie wonder at what consequences are we missing and what will this lead to. #SheSaid @Riveted_Reader_Melissa 2y
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Had to share this ending in the afterwards, in case you got an earlier version of the book without it.

#SheSaid

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staci.reads
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Pickpick

What a fantastic read! I would have never picked this one up on my own, so I'm grateful this was a #Shesaid group read. I am definitely checking out her other book, The Sixth Extinction! @Riveted_Reader_Melissa

Riveted_Reader_Melissa Your reading area looks divine! Love it. 2y
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TheKidUpstairs
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Pickpick

Incredibly fascinating read. I'm grateful to #SheSaid and to @Chelsea.Poole 's #AuldLangSpine list for conspiring to get this one on my radar.

Kolbert writes in a completely engaging style, and with a well-balanced viewpoint, about how man is dealing with changes wrought by man. Nothing is presented as totally positive or negative; it is just what is. So much to think about and ponder over for the future of the climate.

@Riveted_Reader_Melissa

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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DrexEdit wow. no words. that's pretty darn drastic! 😵 2y
RamsFan1963 When I read that, I thought about the movie Snowpiercer. They tried something similar to that and triggered a massive global ice age that destroyed civilization. 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @RamsFan1963 Right… the possibility of creating a bigger issue is huge. 2y
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Hello #SheSaid

How‘d you like the last sections of the book? It was a pick for me, and I‘m glad she didn‘t sugar coat it at the end.

Riveted_Reader_Melissa Anyone else left thinking about how bad breathing in thousands of microscopic diamond pieces would be… I‘d think that would shred the lungs and esophagus. Plus they‘d land on everything that every animal eats, etc… more shredding. And if we block the sun, won‘t we be killing off a ton of plants that need that sun, and then they will stop breathing in the Carbon Dioxide and giving us oxygen, etc, etc, etc 2y
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa I was left thinking of a million more unintended consequences, and that she‘s right…at some point some pressured government is going to ok some half-baked plan and we‘ll all have to deal with the results. 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Just think of all the issues those micro beads (made from plastic) in body washes caused… eventually… long after they were on the market….. but incredibly sharp, like cut glass fragments😬 better buy my goggles 🥽 now. 2y
SamAnne I read this a couple years ago and have been following the posts. Yes, the techno fixes are scary as hell. 2y
staci.reads @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Her reminder that "Scientists can only make recommendations; implementation is a political decision," was not comforting at all. We've seen way too many examples of politicians thinking they know better than scientists. 2y
staci.reads I loved the part about Camp Century in Greenland and how the core samples they were pulling up were "an archive of the sky." 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads Right! That one stuck with me too. Scary stuff…if anything Covid has shown us that leadership that listens to science and doesn‘t think if knows better can make a huge difference. Now I‘m thinking about injecting bleach, and Space Force. 😳 2y
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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A little bit of Iced Mango Under a White Sky…

#Pantone2023 with @Clwojick

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Hello #SheSaid! I hope you are having a great weekend!

Discussion starts below 😉

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TheKidUpstairs Anyone else slightly terrified by the idea that for a couple hundred bucks you can breed antibiotic resistant e-coli in your kitchen?!?! 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @TheKidUpstairs I was terrified way back at electrifying a river…so yea… way past terrified 😂 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @TheKidUpstairs Humans really are terrifying 🫤 when you think about all the crazy stuff we do. 2y
staci.reads @TheKidUpstairs yep, more than slightly terrified 😨 2y
staci.reads This book. I can't decide whether she's making the point for human intervention on nature or against it. Maybe that's the point...there is no clear- cut answer. Maybe her whole thesis is summarize in the quote that ends the section, "Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. Sometimes it is the other way around. " 2y
staci.reads I will say, knowing there are people out there devoting their lives to preserving a few hundred tiny fish gives me a whole lot of hope for our future. 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @TheKidUpstairs it did make me wonder what the most expensive kit can do…. And why he would pick making a dangerous thing more danger then say… the turn flies yellow experiment. For me, it just brought home how much humans like to play god, now in take home kits that teach you to manipulate DNA at home to anyone who wants to learn (hey, they don‘t check you for good intentions first, no background checks, so even those with bad intentions…..⤵️ (edited) 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️have fun). I couldn‘t help but think this summed up our problems…everyone that thinks they have a good idea, just monetizes it and does it… without really thinking it through. Basically a micro version of this book. (edited) 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @TheKidUpstairs plus… my mom watches a lot of court tv cases, poisoning one‘s spouse comes up a lot, in ways that are often hard to trace…. And I couldn‘t help but think how long it will take until this type of thing is used and traced back to some kit bought on the internet. 🙄 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads I loved the fish, I‘ve read her other book, so also loved the coral part because her trip to One Tree was in that book. I feel like her thesis is kind of like, we shouldn‘t have made this mess to begin with, but now that we interfered and made this mess, we are stuck trying to fix our mess. 🤷‍♀️. And hopefully not make it worse 😬 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads side note, googled the fish, they are adorable, tiny, and blue. Other side note… Devil‘s Hole and the fact they‘ve never found the bottom or those that disappeared swimming there, was also a bit terrifying to me. I‘m surprised no one has put in a tiny submersible drone to check it out deeper like they did with the Titanic… if nothing else with this book, it‘s probably just give them time. Oh and the Manson connection…creepy. 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa I‘m also feeling like I need to reread her first book again. 🤷‍♀️ 2y
TheKidUpstairs @staci.reads i really like the balanced tone she is taking with the subject. Not for or against, just here we are/ here's what we've done/ here's what people are doing. I find it's driving me to think more deeply about the possible pros and cons, the hope and the caution in equal measure. 2y
38 likes16 comments
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Bookwormjillk
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Pickpick

I started this for a month long buddy read, but was so interested I listened to the rest today. She said it best in the afterword- a book about people fixing mistakes people made when they were trying to fix mistakes.

Riveted_Reader_Melissa You did what I was so tempted to do…read ahead! 2y
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AllDebooks
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#Naturalitsy

Taking a break from the garden jobs, enjoying the sunshine 🌞

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Hello #SheSaid

Wow, quite the opening section! I read the Sixth Extinction and got so much out of it, I wasn‘t sure there would be more really “new” in this one. I was so very wrong. 😂😭🫠

See you in the comments!

Riveted_Reader_Melissa And for some reason it won‘t let me tag everyone. I‘ll try again in a bit 2y
ncsufoxes I was just able to borrow this as an audio book through my library. I need to catch up. I‘ve bought the books from the last few months but haven‘t had the time to read them. Finally trying to get back on track. 2y
MallenNC I have heard of The Sixth Extinction but haven‘t read it yet so this is my first time with this author. I like her writing style a lot. It‘s smart and even funny; I learned a lot already about how we humans have bent nature to our will. 2y
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa Finally the tags worked! Phew 😮‍💨 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ncsufoxes I feel like I‘ve been behind my usual this whole year…. Not sure what‘s in the air. 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC the Sixth Extinction is very good too…disheartening, yes… but very smart and even funny…she does a great job making very complex environmental issues accessible and interesting. (edited) 2y
TheKidUpstairs I'm loving it so far. Fascinating stuff, she does a great job of making the science accessible, and balancing caution and hope for the future possibilities. 2y
Bookwormjillk I went into this book with no idea what it was about, and I am really enjoying it so far. 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Bookwormjillk @MallenNC @TheKidUpstairs I‘m so glad you are enjoying her writing style..and that Litsy finally let the tags work so late in the day 😂 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa The Sixth Extinction is great for anyone that hasn‘t read it… it‘s more about climate change, and she follows a similar pattern of talking to people working on different projects and how they see the issue, usually in very sharp focus in their jobs & studies… the set up is very similar with each part/chapter talking to a usually very smart group focused on one specific area, but the whole of the book adds up to more than the sum of each chapter. (edited) 2y
SamAnne I've read this one and look forward to following along! 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa I‘m really liking this one so far, I was afraid it would tread over the same material as the other…how many great groups of individuals involved in fascinating projects can one person follow and visit with & gain great insights?…thankfully lots apparently. And I‘m particularly liking the twist in this one..humans trying to fix issues made by humans when they were trying to fix other issues 😂 as much as we play god, we never quite manage to ⤵️ 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ understand or think up every unexpected consequence of our interventions. As much as we try, evolution and basic physics took eons to develop this earth system and it isn‘t nearly as easy to change it around to make things easier for humans as we think it is. We are at the point of electrifying rivers now, what could possibly go wrong 🤷‍♀️ 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Interesting synchronicity in my reading this month…our pick is about humans big plans to fix things…the pick I‘m reading with #Naturalitsy is about allowing an area to go wild again, back to its own design if anyone is interested in joining there too. (edited) 2y
Singout This is really compelling: the frequent story of introducing something just to have it go haywire. I‘m really enjoying how clearly the science is explained. The contrast between the approach to carp in North America and Asia is also really interesting. Remembering my dad taking me and some urban kids to a weir near his small town, and saying that carp were newly valued there as “fighting fish” but not traditionally as fish to be eaten. 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Singout I agree, she writes very well and is able to weave the science and the stories with the people in the field into a compelling whole. 2y
staci.reads @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I am definitely adding The Sixth Extinction to my tbr list after reading the first section of this. I'm really liking it so far! 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads You‘ll like it…. It is about a sad subject, like this one, but her style is the same. I loved the way she approached it when I read that one, talking to people working in the field and going with them to their projects. It was a great journey all over the world and also so informative. 2y
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LitsyEvents
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repost for @Riveted_Reader_Melissa:

Up next for us #SheSaid!

Put in your library holds and interlibrary loans!

original post:
https://www.litsy.com/web/post/2567418

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Up next for us #SheSaid!

Put in your library holds and interlibrary loans!

vlwelser I already read this. But keep me on your list please. 2y
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TheKidUpstairs Just grabbed my library hold today! 2y
psalva I‘ve been really struggling to keep up with readalongs in general so may I kindly ask you remove me from the list for now? 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @psalva Yes, you may! I hope it takes any pressure off of you and you read something fun. If you ever want added back, just let me know! 2y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @TheKidUpstairs I‘ve had this audiobook for awhile, so it will be one off my huge TBR list! 2y
charl08 Can I be added to the list? Sounds good. 2y
AnneCecilie I already have this out from the library 2y
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QBub
Pickpick

Kolbert explores how introduced species have adversely affected nature and how human efforts to undo the damage have generally made matters worse. She approaches the science with wit of Mary Roach. The result is an accessible read. One take away for me is that it has taken us a long time to get where we are so we shouldn‘t expect solutions to be either easy or quick.

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nikirtehsuxlol
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“Humans are producing no-analog climates, no-analog ecosystems, a whole no-analog future. At this point it might be prudent to scale back our commitments and reduce our impacts. But there are so many of us — as of this writing nearly eight billion — and we are stepped in so far, return seems impractical.” Real pick me up, this one.

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DisneyFan
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TheAromaofBooks Woohoo!!! 2y
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Chelsea.Poole
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Pickpick

The impact of humans on the earth is incredible and has far reaching consequences. I put off reading this for so long, hoping I‘d be in a better headspace for it, but I needn‘t have worried; this is surprisingly hopeful (?) and informative about the ways scientists are attempting to correct our mistakes. Who knew there‘s a fish that lives solely in Death Valley? The pupfish! Coral, the ozone, Asian carp, the cane toad, illustrate issues. Great!🐝

Megabooks This was fascinating! 2y
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Yahui07
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Pickpick

This book is, like the author says, “a book about people trying to solve problems created by people trying to solve problems.”
I enjoy the knowledge related to Asian carp, pupfish, coral and cane toad. Recommend this book!!

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vlwelser
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Pickpick

This was interesting. I like this author. This one is about climate change. Basically. It's very short.

#BookSpinBingo @TheAromaofBooks

TheAromaofBooks Great progress!!! 2y
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REPollock
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Pickpick

An unflinching look at the future effects of the changing climate. Forewarning is a kind of comfort.

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REPollock
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Another Goodreads giveaway win. Heard great things about this one.

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Addison_Reads
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Pickpick

I'm ashamed to admit I still haven't read The Sixth Extinction, but I thought this book was excellent. Kolbert writes about the bleakness of human impact on the environment, but she also delivers hopeful suggestions and ideas of how we can fix things.

The section on Louisiana was very well done. I did my graduate research on coastal restoration in La in 2006. It's sad that so many people still don't realize the problems there.

Great read!

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CSeydel
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Pickpick

Read this for my science writers‘ book club. Interestingly, the group was divided between those who found it grim and those who found it hopeful. I‘m in the latter camp. Sure, the theme is how well-intended human intervention creates unforeseen problems, but ultimately I find it hopeful that scientists continue to look for creative, technological solutions to humanity‘s ecological problems. Kolbert‘s writing is lovely yet direct.

DrexEdit I really liked The Sixth Extinction. Stacking this! 😊 3y
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Jessicareadingwala
Pickpick

Fascinating book. The parts and chapters are so interesting, weaving the history of our attempts to control nature with our future imperative to control the outcome of our attempts to control nature is so well written and explained and such a pleasure to read that you almost forget how terrifying our situation is. I highly recommend—especially to those that don‘t want to read a depressing book about climate change.

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Lindy
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Pickpick

While not as depressing as her previous works about the Anthropocene era, there are still some pretty grim facts in this #audiobook. It‘s “a book about people trying to solve problems created by people trying to solve problems.” Problems such as collapsing ecosystems and climate change MIGHT be solved using scary technological solutions like geoengineering aimed at reducing how much sunlight reaches Earth. At least scientists are working on it.

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Lindy
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People have fundamentally altered the atmosphere and, yes, this is likely to lead to all sorts of dreadful consequences. But people are ingenious. They come up with crazy, big ideas and sometimes these actually work.

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Lindy
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Researchers who looked into using solar geoengineering to offset carbon dioxide levels of 560 ppm determined it would change the appearance of the sky: white would become the new blue.

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Hooked_on_books
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Pickpick

How does one follow up a phenomenal but ultimately bleak, Pulitzer-winning book? Apparently with a dash of hope and recognition of human ingenuity. We have done some awful and stupid things to our planet, but there are also innovators out there trying to right the ship and small and large ways. Kolbert explores these projects with clear eyes but ultimately shows there are reasons to hope amidst the climate crisis. I couldn‘t put this down.

Suet624 Sounds like just what I need. 4y
Megabooks Great review! 4y
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Floresj
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Pickpick

Both inspiring and unsettling, Kohlbert takes you on a tour of environmental problems- Asian carps, New Orleans, coral, geoengineering, etc. Each chapter succinctly explained the problem, the cause and potential solutions, and those problems. I learned about “assisted evolution”, and especially liked the focus of that we can‘t go back to the world we once knew, but we can try to mitigate future damage...or should we leave nature alone?

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KelsiTaylor
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“This is a book about people trying to solve problems created by people trying to solve problems”

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HillsAndHamletsBookshop
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Pickpick

A brief but insightful survey of humans‘ ongoing attempts to geoengineer fixes for the environmental problems caused by our previous fixes. Kolbert‘s skeptical eye reveals the hubris inherent in these efforts, even as she befriends the well-meaning scientists and environmentalists behind them. It‘s hard to feel optimistic after a read like this, but it is nonetheless an excellent, deeply thought provoking book.

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RamsFan1963
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Pickpick

I finished this last night, but I wanted to sleep on it before posting. I could write a whole page on this amazing book, Kolbert has again knocked it out of the park. I feel optimistic, yet I'm angry too at man's arrogance and hubris. We can't "game" nature, we can't tech a shortcut to fixing the problem. I think the line that hit home for me was, the choice isn't between the way things were and the way things are now, the choice is between ⬇️⬇️

RamsFan1963 how things are now and how they could be in the future. There's no turning back the clock to some remembered idyllic past. Definitely a 5 🌟 read that I would recommend to everyone concerned about our future on this planet. 4y
kimmypete1 Sounds very intriguing! 4y
DieAReader Great job🥳 Sounds like a great read (I‘ll keep my eyes open for it on Overdrive/Libby, thanks📚)! 4y
Megabooks Great review!! 4y
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Megabooks
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Pickpick

This is a sweeping look at man-made environmental disasters & possible solutions by the author of The Sixth Extinction.

First, she look the man-made changes to the courses of the Chicago River & the Mississippi River at New Orleans and its local and regional affects.

Next, she discusses animal disasters and how they may be solved such as the cane toad in Australia & rats on Pacific islands as well as the death of coral reefs.

In part three, ⬇️

Megabooks ⬆️ she looks at the creative future of carbon capture in the atmosphere - everything from tiny diamonds to rock storage to releasing sulfur. Thanks Kevin for pushing me to snap this #audiobook up from the library!! I hope you enjoy it, too! (edited) 4y
RamsFan1963 I've got about an hour left to go on the audiobook. I think it's been excellent so far. I'm glad you enjoyed it too. 4y
Megabooks @RamsFan1963 have you finished it? What did you end up thinking? 4y
RamsFan1963 @Megabooks I finished it last night, but I wanted to sleep on it before posting today. Overall, I loved the book. Kolbert is an amazing science writer, she explains the complex ideas in a way everyone can understand. I like her optimism but she's grounded in being realistic so you feel there is hope for the future. I have mixed feeling on the various projects she discussed, controlling or "mastering" nature has never worked out for mankind. 4y
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Megabooks
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I‘m doing pretty well on bingos for not purposely trying to get them!! 😃📚🎧

Thanks to @RamsFan1963 for pushing me to look for the tagged book at my library! Review soon.

Today‘s been kind of shitty, but good audiobooks help. 💜

#bookspinbingo

TheAromaofBooks Yay!!! You're making fabulous progress!!! 4y
Megabooks @TheAromaofBooks thanks, Sarah! 4y
MallenNC Sorry you had a bad day. Glad that books helped some. 4y
Megabooks @MallenNC thanks! I just had a painful doctor‘s appointment, so it was good to kick back with a heating pad and audiobook! 4y
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RamsFan1963
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My pre-order came in today, and I can't wait to dive into this. The Sixth Extinction was an amazing book. I have high expectations for this one too.

Lynnsoprano I read a brief review of this in the Washington Post on Sunday, and I really want to read it. You‘re right, The Sixth Extinction was excellent and sobering. 4y
Megabooks I just checked this out from the library! Thanks! 4y
RamsFan1963 @Megabooks My library had a 6 week wait on it, so i decided to use my audible credit. 4y
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RamsFan1963
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My pre-order of the tagged book drops tomorrow, I can't wait to start it.
1. I'm going vegetarian for the week.
2. My living room recliner.
3. I racked my brain but no one comes to mind.
Thanks for the tag @Sharpeipup
#motivationalmonday @Cupcake12
Wanna play? @audraelizabeth @Buechersuechtling @ReadingIsMyHobby @Onceuponatime @TheBookDream @Daisey @Bookishlie @Cuilin @ReadingFeedsTheSoul @Lucy_Anywhere @Onepageatatime88

Cupcake12 Thanks for playing x 4y
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RamsFan1963
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1. As a dedicated listaholic, of course I keep a list of all the books I want to purchase.
2. I have the Tagged book pre-ordered on Audible.com. I loved The Sixth Extinction, so I'm very eager to listen to Kolbert's new book.
#Two4Tuesday @TheSpineView
Wanna play? @audraelizabeth @Buechersuechtling @ReadingIsMyHobby @Onceuponatime @TheBookDream @Daisey @Bookishlie @Sharpeipup @Cuilin @ReadingFeedsTheSoul @Lucy_Anywhere @Onepageatatime88

TheSpineView 💜 Lists! Thanks for playing! 4y
Crazeedi Listaholic! That's me too!🥰 4y
Cuilin I love a list! 4y
33 likes3 comments