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Trial of Lizzie Borden
Trial of Lizzie Borden | Cara Robertson
216 posts | 77 read | 4 reading | 156 to read
The remarkable new account of an essential piece of American mythology--the trial of Lizzie Borden--based on twenty years of research and recently unearthed evidence. The Trial of Lizzie Borden tells the true story of one of the most sensational murder trials in American history. When Andrew and Abby Borden were brutally hacked to death in Fall River, Massachusetts, in August 1892, the arrest of the couple's younger daughter Lizzie turned the case into international news and her trial into a spectacle unparalleled in American history. Reporters flocked to the scene. Well-known columnists took up conspicuous seats in the courtroom. The defendant was relentlessly scrutinized for signs of guilt or innocence. Everyone--rich and poor, suffragists and social conservatives, legal scholars and laypeople--had an opinion about Lizzie Borden's guilt or innocence. Was she a cold-blooded murderess or an unjustly persecuted lady? Did she or didn't she? The popular fascination with the Borden murders and its central enigmatic character has endured for more than one hundred years. Immortalized in rhyme, told and retold in every conceivable genre, the murders have secured a place in the American pantheon of mythic horror, but one typically wrenched from its historical moment. In contrast, Cara Robertson explores the stories Lizzie Borden's culture wanted and expected to hear and how those stories influenced the debate inside and outside of the courtroom. Based on transcripts of the Borden legal proceedings, contemporary newspaper accounts, unpublished local accounts, and recently unearthed letters from Lizzie herself, The Trial of Lizzie Borden offers a window onto America in the Gilded Age, showcasing its most deeply held convictions and its most troubling social anxieties.
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tyoung2058
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Been wanting to read this.

kspenmoll I really got caught up in this book! 1y
40 likes1 comment
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TheBookHippie
Trial of Lizzie Borden | Cara Robertson
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Remembering reading this LONG court case with #SUNDAYBUDDYREAD

CRIME for #SCARATHON2022 later post

I also found her museum online and tons of podcast to listen to about her 😱 #teamslaughter

43 likes2 stack adds
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carmens.library
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Time to get cozy for a bit with the June pick for the True Crime Book Club! #truecrime #lizzieborden #truecrimebookclub #readingcorner

ShananigansReads Looks like the perfect cozy place to read. 2y
carmens.library @Bookjunkie57 Thanks!! My husband questioned me "wasting" space in our room for a chair, but now he steals it from me all the time ? 2y
ShananigansReads @Books.Bottles.and.Babies 🤣🤣🤣 2y
59 likes3 comments
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IamIamIam
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Bailedbailed

I really want to enjoy this book but the narrator is just too difficult for me to listen to. I feel bad but she's just so automated that I find myself drifting and zoning out. This might have to be a read rather than a listen because the trial info is actually interesting!

DivineDiana A good narrator is so important! 2y
vivastory I was thinking just a couple of weeks ago about the following, which I still need to read 2y
IamIamIam @vivastory I read that a few years ago & I absolutely loved the perspective and the way the story unfolds!!! 2y
IamIamIam @DivineDiana I totally agree. I'm lucky that most of the narrators I've found were really wonderful but this is just a clunker for me. 2y
30 likes4 comments
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IamIamIam
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The jury was chosen after interviewing 109 prospects. At least one black man was interviewed, as blacks were allowed to sit on a jury in Massachusetts as early as 1860. Women, however, were granted permission to sit on a jury in 1950, with the first female juror hearing a trial in 1951!!!

5feet.of.fury 1950 seems preposterously late. 2y
IamIamIam @5feet.of.fury It does indeed, however on the Massachusetts state government website, it states 1950. 🤷‍♀️ 2y
5feet.of.fury @IamIamIam I believe you! It‘s just bonkers. I‘m from MA and I feel like we like to think we were so advanced and civilized, and then things like this. 2y
IamIamIam @5feet.of.fury 🤣🤣 It was hard to believe for me too... absolutely crazy! You'd appreciate this book, being from Massachusetts. My NY ear thinks the narrator did an okay job with the New England accent! LOL... I'm only familiar with Taunton because of the abandoned hospital! 2y
27 likes4 comments
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IamIamIam
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Absolutely hysterical that Lizzie Borden tried to use her period as an excuse for some of the blood in the house!! There was a theory that women were more prone to criminal acts when menstruating. I mean... I totally get it but... lol

31 likes1 comment
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IamIamIam
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Getting this started today... the narrator has such a strange tone and I had to speed it up so she doesn't sound like the automated narration on Instagram!!! 🤣

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Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks
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I know it‘s morbid but… it‘s a recycled picture

🪦 🖤📚

#graveyard
#Haunted

magyklyXdelish I love it! 2y
Libby1 Do you think she did it? I do, but I‘m open to changing my mind. 2y
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Monica5
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Pickpick

Slow read but good. Lots of info. Another one down for #Bookspinbingo
@TheAromaofBooks

TheAromaofBooks Woohoo!! 3y
10 likes1 comment
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Monica5
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Starting this evening. Been wanting to read it for a while. With #bookspinbingo, I will be able to mark it off both😊

kspenmoll This was fascinating! 3y
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Samary
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Pickpick

So much I didn‘t know! A little dry at parts, it is a legal non fiction after all, but I really liked it! Good info.

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Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick
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Hey #sundaybuddyread -ers and Lizzie Borden enthusiasts, the original Lizzie Borden house, now museum, is for sale. For just $2,000,000 this slice of history can be yours! Here is a link to the listing with 42 pictures for your viewing pleasure.

https://www.realliving.com/commercial-for-sale/230-2nd-St-Fall-River-MA-02721-30...

@TheBookHippie

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kspenmoll
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#day2 #12Booksof2020

My true love gave to me, two turtle doves...and Lizzie Borden.
This book totally engaged me.The in depth research the author did was incredible- even to letting us know that Lizzie‘s lawyer‘s file was still under lock & key at her lawyer‘s firm. #sundaybuddyread

Mitch I really enjoyed this - a fascinating story 👍🏼 3y
Andrew65 Another good choice. 3y
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks 🖤🖤🖤 3y
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Sleepswithbooks
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Shaking my jingle bells 🔔 of excitement @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks !! Thank you Misty for my Christmas happiness 💚❤️ I‘ve been looking forward to reading about this case!! Love you 🤗

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks You‘re very welcome!! I hope you enjoy it!! ❤️🎅💚 3y
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DieAReader
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Pickpick

#CrushTheRush #ProgressItDecember #ReadYourWay

5⭐️

Aside from the childhood rhyme, I knew nothing of Lizzie Borden before reading this. Fascinating!

Andrew65 Added to my list. 3y
TheSpineView 🤩👍📖 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick I'm glad you liked it! 3y
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WorldsOkayestStepMom
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Bailedbailed

I listened to 40% of the audiobook, but it was very dry in my opinion. I also didn't really care for the narrator.

KristenDuck I have heard similar comments about this one! Bummer because I had been looking forward to reading it - might skip it now. 3y
33 likes1 comment
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ElizaMarie
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Pickpick

So I had fallen behind on this #SundayBuddyRead (@AlwaysBeenALoverOfBooks @TheBookHippie) because this was the type of book that (although I enjoyed it) I had a hard time finding time to actually want to read it. It was great. I enjoyed it when I finally got to it. but... I didn't want to read it everyday. But anyway I really enjoyed it!

#BookSpinBingo
@TheAromaOfBooks

#NonFicNovember2020
#NFN20

29 likes2 comments
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GingerAntics
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Pickpick

I can‘t believe I forgot to post my review of this. Whoops!

This is a very interesting and in depth look at Lizzie Borden‘s trial. It has a very brief section on Lizzie‘s life after the verdict. It covered the murders themselves clearly and concisely, but mostly from the angle of things that would be important later in the trial.
👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻

GingerAntics Robertson even mentions that there is still a file locked away in a law firm that is the entire contents of the defence team‘s notes and information on the case. What I wouldn‘t give to get my hands on that, but the law firm is still claiming lawyer-client privilege, even after all these years. #TheTrialOfLizzieBorden #CaraRobertson 3y
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Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick
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Mehso-so

I am not one for legal books, fiction or non-fiction, but I joined in on the #SundsyBuddyRead. This is very thorough, giving us some background about the Borden family and the aftermath of those vicious murders. We move to details of the court case, with day by day descriptions of the case and includes black & white photos of the crime scenes, and closes with the verdict and a brief aftermath. This is DENSE. Well researched, but lots of names ⬇️

54 likes4 comments
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mollyrotondo
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Pickpick

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ I am so happy I read this with #sundaybuddyread. I have always been intrigued by the Lizzie Borden case that I even wrote a paper about it in college lol. It focused heavily on the reporting done by newspapers at the time. This gave a great insight into the differences between the poor and rich in community where the Borden‘s lived. It was very well done. #bookspinbingo No. 24 #screamathon

TheAromaofBooks I've seen a lot of mixed reviews on this one, so I'm glad you enjoyed it!! 3y
mollyrotondo @TheAromaofBooks I liked it. I liked that she gave us the story through those news reporters. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD

Thank you so much for reading along this month!
I learned so much and I loved all the discussions 🤍

See you November 8 for the book of two ways!

Sargar114 Thank you for putting this together! Always so fun and thought provoking. Let me know when you end up throwing the book next month and hopefully will be able to join for December! 3y
mrp27 Thanks for hosting! A very interesting read even if it was a tedious one. 3y
Andrew65 Unfortunately Covid and effect on libraries are effecting me getting hold of the #SundayBuddyread books, apologies for being AWOL! (edited) 3y
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TheBookHippie @Andrew65 No problem- a couple of us have had issues, I‘ve bought more this year 😭😫... we miss you. AND next up should be a hugely book throwing episode 🤣😬 3y
TheBookHippie @Sargar114 I‘m so afraid for the poor thing. I‘ll send the dented thing your way at the end 😫😫😫😝 3y
TheBookHippie @mrp27 It was my mind enjoyed the challenge. 3y
DebinHawaii I just did not get into this one & get it done—I only made it to the 1/2-way mark. I blame the month & work more than anything. I still may try to finish. Hopefully I‘ll be back in better form in November. I got the next book for free using two Amazon credits but it‘s an e-book so no throwing my Kindle! 😉 3y
vlwelser I got a copy of this next one, so I'm in for another round. Thank you so much for all of the hard work you do to put this all together. 3y
Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @Andrew65 we do miss you 💙💙💙 3y
kspenmoll I will be joining in November😄 3y
Andrew65 @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @TheBookHippie Thanks 🥰 Unfortunately the library doesn‘t even have a physical copy, not good at buying recently published books. 3y
TheBookHippie @Andrew65 I hear that ! It‘s pricey! 3y
JaclynW I have read ALL of your book picks this year!!! I am just really struggling with finding time to get on Litsy anymore. I took a job at my daughter's elementary school. I am teaching reading to small groups in Kindergarten, 1st and 2nd grades and I also teach science to 5th graders twice a week. I'm not doing a great job with keeping up with the rest of life (aka things I enjoy). @thebookhippie @alwaysbeenaloverofbooks
3y
JaclynW @thebookhippie @alwaysbeenaloverofbooks I have the Jodi Piccoult book. I am planning on reading. I consider it a good thing that I am at least able to read the book and I have every intention of joining the discussions each week. But....I suck at it lately!! I definitely miss you all!!!!!!! I love our discussions!!!! Any tips from anyone reading this on how to balance life would be appreciated!! 😁 3y
TheBookHippie @JaclynW We miss your participation. Balance is hard 😝. I always “make” myself do me time. I‘ve gotten much better these past years. 3y
JaclynW @TheBookHippie Yes! Balance is not something I have ever been good at. I've gotten better too over the years. But obviously, there is still holes!!! ME TIME is always what goes first. Sadly. I will have to schedule it in probably. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD FINAL THOUGHTS

Personally I think Lizzie is innocent. However I have varying thoughts on who did it from the Uncle to Emma to Mr Borden‘s supposed mistress to a random person!!

Anything we missed in our discussions ?

Other than Jon Benet Ramsy is there another crime like this you can think of ? I think her brother killed her FYI. OJ, but I think he did it.

Do you think we will ever know the truth or is it in those FILES?!

Sargar114 I wouldn‘t go so far as to say she is innocent... I absolutely think the answer is in those files!!! It is also so random, that I believe it could be a one off but probably not. I agree with you on Jon Benet. There are so many unsolved murders I want to know the answer to, Black Dahlia and Zodiac are the big ones that come to mind. 3y
AmyG I am not sure she did it or not. I believe today, with forensic science, we would know. But there was enough doubt and the correct verdict was given. I, too, think Jon Benet was killed by her brother. That was a fascinating case. 3y
TheBookHippie @Sargar114 ohhhhh the Black Dalia !!!! That case fascinates me too 3y
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mollyrotondo Jon Bennet is a good unsolved case. But any serial killer crimes that have gone unsolved because forensic evidence was not collected properly or could not be well tested at the time are good cases to go back and study. 3y
mrp27 I'm not sure Lizzie did it but I really think it was one of the tree, Lizze, Emma or the uncle. I just can't see a bloodied person fleeing from the house with a dripping murder weapon in the light of day. Maybe it was all three in on it together?! 😆 Who knows. I would like to know more about the uncle. 3y
GingerAntics It may be in those files, or she may have refused to say who she thought did it until she knew for sure because she didn‘t want to falsely accuse anyone else. I think Jon Bennet‘s brother killed her and then the parents staged it to protect him. I‘ve seen a documentary that posits that OJ‘s older son committed the crimes and OJ covered for him, but I still think he did it. As for Lizzie, I‘ve never believed she did it. 3y
GingerAntics I agree that a bloody person couldn‘t have fled the house without being noticed. The idea that the sister did it is impossible for the same reason a stranger couldn‘t have done it. Emma either had to leave the house as soon as her father was killed or she would have been on the property cleaning the blood off herself. Witnesses saw her where she claimed to be at the time of the murders, so she‘s clear. (edited) 3y
GingerAntics I think the butcher (Uncle) would have had the necessary skills to prevent the blood getting in his hair and had the protective clothing so in the end he would have just washed his hands and left the house again. Abby died in his room. That‘s the most logical answer to me. 3y
vlwelser The Aaron Hernandez thing fascinates me. Also Whitey Bulger. I'm reading one about Jeffrey Epstein now. Although none of these are exactly unsolved. 3y
vlwelser I also think the answer is in those files. Otherwise it seems like someone would have handed them over by now. 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick 1. Likely involved if she didn't actually swing the hatchet. 2. I think this quote was technically in last week's section, but can I point out how this make me chuckle? "Robinson reserved his sharpest humor for the array of hatchets and axes offered into evidence..." 3. The uncle was rather handsome. 4. I was tickled to see she had Boston Terriers because I can bring that up in conversations about mine like a weirdo. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #11

Do you usually read nonfiction ?
Was it fun to read this in October or didn‘t it matter ?

Sargar114 I‘m not a huge non-fiction reader. But I was happy to read this. To me, I can read stories like this any time of year, but there is an added fun of doing it in October. (edited) 3y
AmyG I love true crime and to me, this book was that. I also think it was wonderful to “mix thhings up” by adding a non-fiction book. I hope there is one in the 2021 reads. 3y
TheBookHippie @AmyG yup true crime- a classic novel -YA -memoir- I‘m gonna mix it up 🙌🏻 3y
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mollyrotondo I do like non fiction especially true crime and history. This was fun to read in October. I love a true crime or horror pick for October. 3y
mrp27 Not a big nf reader but I do enjoy it now and again. Loved reading this in October, adds to the season. 3y
GingerAntics I love nonfiction. I loved this book. I would have happily read it at any point in the year. It was a good choice for October, though. I‘m reading another book about murders for October as well. I like well done supernatural stuff, but for some reason I‘m just not reading any of that right now. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 3y
vlwelser I'll read just about anything. I find true crime especially fascinating. This was a good pick for October. But I think a lot of stuff tends to fit. 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick When I read NF it's mostly celebrity memoirs or biographies, so I guess that was the appeal here. Lizzie is practically an old-time celebrity. I think the nature of ax-murderer made me think it was great for October, but since it really was trial focused, it could be read any time. It had me thinking of my time up in that area last autumn for work so it gave me nostalgia for MA. 3y
Sargar114 With all the references to how hot it was, could totally be a summer read haha 😂🤣😂🤣 3y
kspenmoll I love nonfiction-but it does take me longer to read - so much to absorb!!! 3y
katy4peas I don‘t usually read NF, but rather enjoyed this more than I thought I would. I like having a NF title mixed in to the list. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #10

Did you like the read ?

https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2017/apr/27/see-what-i-have-done-sarah-schmidt...

Should we add See what I have done to our buddy read selections next year ?

Sargar114 Despite my rating, I did enjoy the overall story. What I didn‘t enjoy was the style it was told in. It was just a LOT of information. Clearly some people like that, just not my preference. I‘d be okay with reading that story posted. Especially now having all the information from this book! 3y
AmyG Interesting article. I wonder if she touched upon, in her book, the ring the father wore (that Lizzie gave him...or was it the other way around)? Didn‘t someone touch upon perhaps he was sexually abusing her??? Do I remember this correctly? I agree with @Sargar114 that if we did read this book it would help having all the knowledge from this book. 3y
Sargar114 @amyg I think there were rumors about that after the defense stressed the love they shared for each other. I believe the gossip train implied that there was an inappropriate relationship. I worry that knowing what we know from this book, might question what I read in any other story about it haha 3y
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mollyrotondo I am actually reading See what I have Done right now lol it‘s pretty good so far. It‘s definitely more about the psyche of Lizzie, and Emma and Bridget‘s stories are also told. I liked this book. It‘s a good breakdown of the events and the trial. 3y
mrp27 I've never read it and now I'm curious about it. @AmyG there was a lifetime limited series in the last couple of years with Christina Ricci that I felt like was going in the direction of abuse. I never finished it so I'm not 100% positive. 3y
AmyG Thanks for that @mrp27 3y
GingerAntics This was a great read. This is one of the cases that brought me to true crime, so I‘m always open to reading more. 3y
mrp27 @AmyG 🤗 3y
Hooked_on_books I found this book fascinating. I‘ve read See What I Have Done and didn‘t think it was great. 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick As someone who doesn't read true crime or legal stories, this was interesting but dense. Not sure I'm seeking them out, but I survived. I admit a few pages here & there were skimmed because all the mustachioed white men blended together to me. I have See What I Have Done during around here unread & would be down for a group read next year. 3y
kspenmoll I enjoyed the book immensely. I wanted a better sense of who she was but I think that eluded mist people at the time. People did not share emotions, ideas, opinions the way we do now, especially women. Late 19th c women faced social constraints that some chaffed at. The author seemed to suggest Lizzie may have felt that way. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #9

What do you think now when you hear about this trail? Did you learn a lot as I did ?

Sargar114 I couldn‘t believe how flimsy the prosecution‘s case was and the fact they still went forward with it. I‘d like to think they couldn‘t do that today, but I also think that we‘d have more forensic evidence and might have a better idea who did it if it happened today. I learned so much from reading this! 3y
AmyG I learned it all as I had no clue. 3y
mollyrotondo I definitely learned so much about the time period and how the media at the time viewed the case against her. It is a great trial to use an example today of why it is important to initially do a proper investigation of the crime scene at the moment the body is found. 3y
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Sargar114 @mollyrotondo that‘s a good point about the media coverage. I did enjoy that aspect of it. It was interesting to see the hype in comparison to modern media coverage of trials. 3y
mollyrotondo @Sargar114 yes I loved this part of the book. It‘s a new piece of history that I wouldn‘t have thought to research myself. 3y
mrp27 I knew nothing before hand so this was all new information. Was surprised at the prosecutions case, it was such a hot mess it's no wonder she was found innocent. 3y
GingerAntics All those details about the trial. I knew a little bit, there was a great episode of 20/20 maybe, Dateline, that I recreated the trial. That was cool, but seemed to miss the whole contradictory testimony. That might have been the most intriguing information in the book. This had way more detail about the trial. Most of what I knew about the case was the actual murders. 3y
Hooked_on_books I learned so much from this book. I had thought it was clear that she did it before this book and now I don‘t think there‘s any way she could have. 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick I didn't know anything so this was all new information to me. It was interesting to see the old fashioned process, even if it was flimsy evidence from the Prosecution. Most shocking was that they were left to stay in the home after the police investigation. Really?! That was crazy to me. 3y
kspenmoll This book was full of historical/social detail- context for who the Bordens were, the town, the crime, the trial. How bungled the police inquiry was, contradictory testimony, only circumstantial evidence- the entertainment/news factor- all this made it such a fascinating read. I knew the bare bone about Lizzie Borden & her axe!!!- assumed she did it. Now I think there are others to consider!!! (edited) 3y
katy4peas I learned a lot. Barely knew her name before reading this. I‘m not sure I believe her guilty and I‘m amazed at how badly the whole thing was treated. It would be so completely different today. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #8

So. I actually loved all the back history notes at the end of the book. Did you?

Sargar114 I‘m not gonna lie...didn‘t read those. I was pretty exhausted after reading this, haha 3y
AmyG I shall admit...I didn‘t read those either. (edited) 3y
mollyrotondo I didn‘t read them either. I didn‘t realize they provided more noteworthy details. I‘ll go back and scan them. 3y
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mrp27 I didn't read either 😬 3y
GingerAntics I loved all the details I could get. 3y
vlwelser Now I have extra homework. I didn't think to look at those. I assumed they referenced source materials. 3y
Sargar114 @vlwelser that‘s what I thought too! 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick I wanted my white flag after the coda. I thought it was essentially a bibliography. Maybe I'll take a further look. 3y
kspenmoll The research, notes, sources were great! 3y
katy4peas I didn‘t see those. 🤦‍♀️ 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #7

So. Who wants to read that locked up file on Lizzie from her lawyer?!!!!!! OHMYWORD.
Can you imagine ?!

Sargar114 YAAAAAAS!!!! I can‘t believe it hasn‘t been opened yet! Are there still remaining members of her family still alive, after 100+ years I can‘t imagine there is anyone to protect anymore. I NEED ANSWERS!!! 3y
AmyG I thought that, too. I was surprised that was never made public. Maybe some day. 3y
mollyrotondo Haha yes! I just love that there is a mysterious file sitting in a law office that is being persevered but cannot be touched. It keeps this murder in the spotlight forever. 3y
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mrp27 So crazy!! So curious! Why after all this time keep it concealed? I wonder if there are any answers or interesting details in those files or if it's just a basic client file. Certainly adds to the mystique of the case. 3y
GingerAntics OH MY GOD I WANT TO READ THAT FILE SOOO BAD!!! 3y
vlwelser OMG Yes! 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick Release it! There's no one to protect and it's unsolved. Not like she has children & grandchildren to consider. 3y
kspenmoll I think its overkill by the law firm. Release it! Maybe she told her lawyer things.... 3y
katy4peas I think if the lawyer and the client and any close relatives are all dead, there is nobody to protect and the info can, and maybe should, be released. 3y
TheBookHippie @katy4peas we should write letters 🤣 please tell us our Bookclub needs to know! 3y
katy4peas I‘m amazed it has been kept a secret for so long and everybody has honored that wish! I feel like someone would have peeked and leaked the info by now! 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #6

Lizzie stated she has opinions about who it was that murdered her parents. Do you think she knew (if you believe she didn‘t do it) She remained silent about the case, was that her nature only or was she just finished with it all, or something else?

Sargar114 I thinks it‘s very possible she knew. If she wasn‘t the one who did it, I think fear is why she didn‘t come forward (ie if it was her uncle, clearly if she‘d come forward he‘s likely come after her) 3y
AmyG I also think it‘s possible she knew. I also thhink she just wanted to put this all behind her. 3y
mollyrotondo I don‘t know. I mean she was going to risk her life on trial to save her uncle? I just think she did it lol 3y
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mrp27 So curious to know who she thinks did it. I think she knows more than she says. 3y
GingerAntics I‘m so curious to know what her thoughts were. She was much closer to the situation. I commend her reasoning for not saying anything, though. I‘m sure there was part of her that just wanted it behind her, knowing the real murderer would never be brought to justice. It‘s possible she knew who did it, was threatened by them, whatever. She wouldn‘t want to name the killer and have that person go after her sister, the only family she had left. 3y
vlwelser This only makes sense if she was protecting someone else. I don't think it ever occured to her that she might be found guilty. Or she's crazy. 3y
Hooked_on_books I think there‘s a very good chance she knew or strongly suspected who did it. She was at the house when it happened, after all. 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick I think she knows, if there wasn't someone helping her. At the time, it was surprising and unlikely for a woman to be a murderer. I believe it was premeditated with help, either with her uncle or a local grifter. It just felt that some actions, like shopping for acid, lingering at the door, burning the dress with a witness...it all feels calculated. I think they were confident she wouldn't be convicted and was best suspect to be acquitted. 3y
kspenmoll If she did not do it, she probably knows who did. But then why would that person not kill her? I wish she had broken her silence. 3y
katy4peas She must have loved somebody very much to protect them and put her own life on the line for them by keeping her silence and enduring the trial. 3y
TheBookHippie @katy4peas this or a secret ? I agree though. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #5

The divide between rich and poor about Lizzie and eventually the rich and church turned on her. Surprised?
Personally the church doesn‘t shock me. They were protecting themselves not her. What do you think?

Sargar114 I agree, it doesn‘t surprise me either. I think the rich abandoned her for the same reason, looking out for themselves. I mean, they were both okay when she was accused as a murderer, but a ***looks around and whispers*** a possible lesbian???!!! Gasp 3y
AmyG Agree. Nothing about the Church shocks me. And yes, if they believed the gossip that Lizzie was gay...hence tthe shun. And imagine how these people believed they were “above, better than” Lizzie Borden....and how that made them feel better about themselves. 3y
mollyrotondo Oh I‘m definitely not surprised that her church shunned her. And the rich wouldn‘t want to associate with a suspected criminal in a small town. Maybe in large communities of the wealthy they have each other‘s backs because they are all doing something illegal. But not in a small town. 3y
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mrp27 Not surprising she was eventually shunned. Who wants to be associated with that kind of notoriety? Being guilty or not doesn't seem to matter. 3y
GingerAntics I totally agree. The church was protecting itself. To shun her like that was ridiculous. I commend her for sitting in that pew all by herself and holding her head up, though. I don‘t understand why her local supporters suddenly turned their backs on her. Because she named the house? Maybe she named her jail cell, too. What‘s it to you? She‘s been through hell, she can do what she wants. Rock and roll, Lizzie! 3y
vlwelser The church thing didn't surprise me. But continuing to give them money for a pew seems like a waste of money IMO. 3y
Hooked_on_books No, I‘m sadly not surprised. People are overly concerned about appearances and protecting their own reputation, so it would have been surprising if they hadn‘t shunned her. 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick Not surprised at all. 3y
kspenmoll Not surprised; but very sad. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #4

Lizzie answered all the mail sent her way. Does this give us a glimpse of who she really was ?

*pic of book I want to read now 🤣

Sargar114 Maybe since eventually a lot of people “abandoned” her, this was her way of connecting with people 🤷🏼‍♀️ 3y
AmyG @Sargar114 Yes. I was thinking that maybe her life became a bit lonely. So this gave her an opportunity to connect and I think, also gave her some purpose. 3y
mollyrotondo While reading this book I felt like Lizzie always wanted to be somebody. So i think responding to people‘s mail helped fuel this idea she had of herself. 3y
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mrp27 I wonder if she only answered the letters that were supportive of her or all the letters. I kinda felt like at times she was seeking out opportunities to be in the limelight. Then again it could have been straight up loneliness. 3y
GingerAntics I want to read that book now, too. I thought her answering all those letters was sweet. Clearly she knew she had her detractors. I think she was smart to keep her supporters on her side. It‘s certainly more personal than thanking supporters through your lawyer at the end of the case. I don‘t know if that was more a sign of the times (you always send a thank you card/letter) or her personally, but I doubt every person who was acquitted did it. 3y
vlwelser Some of this stuff makes her seem at the very least eccentric. Possibly just bat shit crazy. 3y
Sargar114 @vlwelser bahahaha good point! 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick "A spinster of proper breeding knows it's impolite to leave a letter unanswered" - Miss Manners. Just kidding, but she lost many prior acquaintances and her charitable organizations so she had nothing but time on her hands. 3y
kspenmoll Agree with all- it gave her something to do & social mores dictated she respond. 3y
katy4peas I think she kinda liked the attention, but I‘m sure some of it was due to loneliness too 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #3

Interesting that the jury actually like each other and met annually together for. Least a decade ?

Sargar114 The craziest reunions ever, haha 3y
AmyG Apparently they formed quite the bond. You spend day in and out with the same people, with a common purpose, you form friendships. 3y
mollyrotondo This was amazing! I guess it‘s easier to form these types of friendships in such a small town. It‘s harder to do that today when people come from many surrounding towns to sit on a jury. 3y
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mrp27 I've only served on a jury once, we weren't sequestered, but it's easy to see how you can become close to your fellow jurors. 3y
kspenmoll I thought that was so interesting! Just reminder of what a small towns they were! 3y
GingerAntics That did seem odd to me, but I guess being part of this big case made them a unique group and they had that shared experience that held them together. I love that they say for a photo to give to Lizzie. 3y
rjsthumbelina I liked this. They shared a bond in seeing and hearing some really difficult stuff day in and day out without any other relationships to lean on. I know I am really close to the other therapists at my work bc other people don't have to listen to the same hard topics that we do (sexually violent predator treatment) 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick Given that all they had for three weeks was the trial and each other's company, I'm not surprised if a friendship was formed between some of the men, but an annual reunion just cracked me up! 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD #2

What do you think of Lizzie staying in her town? Why?!
I LOVED the Hawthorne quote as The Scarlett Letter is a favorite of mine and personal to me.

Was it easier to stay “with the known devil than a new one” ? Was she just doing what she felt she deserved ?

Sargar114 It will always be her home, and immediately after the trial, some of her biggest supporters were still there. I think they mentioned in the book, that because of her infamy, she‘d likely be bothered anywhere she went, so might as well be somewhere where you‘re comfortable (edited) 3y
AmyG I believed she felt she was innocent so why move? Honestly, she didn‘t seem like the kind of persn to just pickup and start all over. 3y
mollyrotondo Well it does seem like she always wanted to live in that elite part of the neighborhood that her father always refused to live in. So this was her chance to buy a house where she always wanted to live and be a part of that elite society. And @AmyG is right she doesn‘t seem like a person who would have completely up and moved away. 3y
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mrp27 I was surprised she stayed. Guilty or not that takes courage. 3y
rjsthumbelina @mrp27 I agree, it would take courage to stay after knowing the whole town was looking at you and watching you. But I also agree with @AmyG that she didn't seem like the kind of person to just walk away. I loved that she moved to a different house but stayed in the same town. Although, in retrospect, that does look like a motive. I'm sure she wouldn't have been able to move without their deaths 3y
GingerAntics I commend her courage to stay. I think it came from a “this is my home and I will not be driven out.” She was going to have issues no matter where she settled. I guess if you‘re going to be stuck inside and surrounded by whispers no matter where you go, you might as well be where you‘re comfortable and happy. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 3y
vlwelser If she truly was innocent, staying almost makes sense. Actually, that same logic works if she did it. 3y
mrp27 @rjsthumbelina Again weather guilty or not she certainly seemed to have profited from the murder. 3y
Hooked_on_books @Sargar114 Yup, that‘s pretty much exactly what I would have said. 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick Surprising that she stayed but an arguement for both staying and leaving could be made. She finally got to live in the area she wanted. I think it was a giant FU to her haters. 3y
kspenmoll It seemed she really wanted to live in the upper class part of town & it frustrated her that her father was too cheap to buy a house there. So she & Emma full filled a dream. She did not come across to me as someone who would venture into the unknown- she seemed quite passive. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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Good morning !!! #SUNDAYBUDDYREAD

#1

Before you read this did you think Lizzie was guilty? Do you now? If not who? Any theories ?

Sargar114 I assumed she was guilty because of the poem. I didn‘t realize until reading this that I knew nothing about this case! Now: I have no idea still, haha! I think she knows more then she let on, but to what extent 🤷🏼‍♀️. I could believe she just heard it and maybe knows who did it and is covering up or scared OR I can believe she in fact committed them, just no evidence to prove that at the time. (edited) 3y
AmyG Yes, I, too, believed she was guilty because of the poem which was all I knew about this murder. So...everything @Sargar114 said! 3y
mollyrotondo I have always believed she was guilty and still do! But like @Sargar114 said there is was no solid evidence gathered at that time to truly convict her. 3y
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Sargar114 @mollyrotondo do you have a specific reason why you think she‘s guilty or just a gut feeling? 3y
mrp27 Like others because of the rhyme I always believed she was found guilty. I never knew she was acquitted until I read this book. It's hard to change my mind after all these years believing one thing and I still feel she's guilty but I definitely have doubts now. 3y
mollyrotondo @Sargar114 mostly a gut feeling. She was the one who had the most opportunity that day. She was in the house all day. And because she went to buy the prussic acid the day before. The uncle had an alibi and Emma was away for a few days. But I definitely don‘t think she should have been convicted since the prosecution had no solid evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. 3y
rjsthumbelina @Sargar114 @mrp27 I thought she had done it bc of the rhyme, too! But after reading this, I lean toward not thinking that she did it. She would have gotten blood splatters on her, and would not have been able to wash it off of her body or hair without others noticing 3y
GingerAntics I never thought she was guilty. I didn‘t hear the nursery rhyme until after I discovered Lizzie from the true crime angle, so I‘m a little weird in that sense. I always thought the maid did it, but after our discussions I really think the uncle did it. It works so much better (the hair thing would apply to the maid as much as it would to Lizzie). 3y
vlwelser I'm with @Sargar114 and @AmyG . They definitely didn't have anything other than circumstantial evidence. Whether she did it or not, they definitely didn't prove it. 3y
vlwelser As for who did it.... I have no actual idea. But I like the uncle for it, alibi or no. 3y
Sargar114 @GingerAntics I do wonder if this was The Trial of Bridget Sullivan if we get the same outcome though 3y
GingerAntics @Sargar114 oh I think we can all agree, if it had been Bridget, she would have been found guilty and hanged. 3y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics no doubt!!! Immediately too. 3y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie right? It‘s possible it would have been more like a mob, and she never would have made it to trial. She certainly wouldn‘t have gotten a cat and books in jail. 3y
Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick Like most of the others I thought she was guilty & convicted due to the rhyme & rumors. I just don't know how two murders at least an hour apart could go unnoticed, especially if a random person committed them. The Prosecution made two points that stood out. 1. She knows the home & could've really hidden evidence. (Secret cubby, floorboard, etc) 2. Why burn the dress the day after? Perhaps someone else was involved. 3y
katy4peas I had never heard the rhyme before reading this and only had vaguely heard of Lizzie‘s name. I think she was guilty of knowing more info if not committing at least one crime. She may have had help for the second murder. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 3y
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review
katy4peas
Trial of Lizzie Borden | Cara Robertson
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Mehso-so

I joined in reading this book as part of #sundaybuddyread not knowing anything about the murders and only vaguely knowing Lizzie's name. It is based on all of the trial reports and evidence, so it is a very dense read, especially for the trial section. However, I did enjoy the read overall and learned a lot about the murders. The surprise twist at the end left me with a very unsatisfying “UGH!“ feeling. I understand why, but really!?!

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TheBookHippie
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https://datebook.sfchronicle.com/movies-tv/lizzie-borden-has-a-lesbian-affair-in...

Watching this tonight before tomorrow‘s final #SUNDAYBUDDYREAD discussion on this book!

GingerAntics I may have to see if this is available to stream anywhere. 3y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics library DVD ✌🏻🤍 I put on hold all things Lizzie from my local library they are slowly trickling in 3y
GingerAntics Well played!!! 3y
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kspenmoll
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#sundaybuddyread
The newspapers reporting on the trial, wrote often in a visual, flowery manner. 🥀🥀🌲🌲💨
Within the courtroom, the women spectators “made such a stir, “said Julian Ralph, “that the sound of their dresses was like a whiff of wind in an open forest.“

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kspenmoll
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#sundaybuddyread #pants
“Robinson, however decided to take no chances. He had worn a new pair of trousers on Thursday and “‘his associates insisted upon his keeping them on until the close of the trial that the lock might not be changed.‘”

From the first day that the Defense presented it‘s case, Defense Attorney Robinson wore the same new pair of pants for luck throughout. Not far enough in the book yet to know how many days the Defense took. ☘️

review
vlwelser
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Pickpick

So good. This book presents all of the evidence and facts from the trial and I still have no idea if Lizzie is actually guilty. That's it for spoilers.

#SundayBuddyRead final discussion this Sunday. 🤐 until then....
@TheBookHippie @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks

#BookSpinBingo #DoubleSpin done!
@TheAromaofBooks

TheAromaofBooks Woohoo!! Awesome progress!! 3y
Sargar114 @vlwelser I came away from it thinking the same exact thing! Basically 🤷🏼‍♀️ 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD

Final Discussion on SUNDAY !

review
Lauren_reading
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Pickpick

This was a really interesting book in many aspects - we all know the Lizzie Borden rhyme and this was a very straightforward look at the trial and acquittal of Lizzie Borden.

It was slow in parts due to the readings of some of the trial transcripts, but thoughts from friends, witnesses and reporters were interspersed and added more to the storyline.

Lauren_reading I also got a laugh at how ideas about women both helped and hurt Lizzie Borden. How she was on her period and obviously women are more likely to do crazy things then. Or how she cried so she must be innocent. 3y
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review
SamAnne
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Mehso-so

If one is interested in a blow by blow account of the Borden trial, this is a great history. I was not. I enjoyed learning about the socia and class contexts and how beliefs about women played into it. But at the end, all I could think was that there were so many other books I could have been listening to....but with murder and mystery it will be points towards #TeamSlaughter #Scarathlon

paper.reveries Thanks for your review! 3y
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rjsthumbelina
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Pickpick

This book is very detailed and well-researched. But it is fully a narrative about the investigation and trial, so I understand why it could leave some people less than satisfied. I didn't expect to enjoy it as much as I did, but I thought it was a great courtroom drama. Also, I liked learning all the minute details of this well-known case.
#sundaybuddyread

Bette Great coloring. Such a handsome 🐱. ❤️👍 3y
rjsthumbelina @Bette thanks! I have an affinity for tuxeys 😻 3y
rjsthumbelina @Bette he's actually a foster cat. He was bugging me the whole time I was reading the last 50 pages! 3y
Bette We used to have a tuxedo 🐱 too, I love them. 3y
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TheBookHippie
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One of the movies and a graphic novel car in on my holds from the library today!!! #SUNDAYBUDDYREAD

Still more on hold to come !

Sargar114 I‘d be interested in the Lizzie movie. After reading this book, the theory of her sexual orientation seems pretty plausible. Especially with her post trial behavior and the fallout with her sister. 3y
TheBookHippie @Sargar114 I‘m thinking so. Watching movie Friday night as now Mr BookHippie is interested 🤣🤷🏽‍♀️ 3y
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review
mrp27
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Mehso-so

My fifth title for #screamathon2020 I never knew the details of the famous Borden hatchet murders and the subsequent trial of Lizzie Borden. At times this was fascinating, I learned a lot of details about the gruesome murder. The trial portion, which took up the bulk of the book, was technical, dry and dense bringing down my overall rating. Still, it‘s always a pleasure to read with the #sundaybuddyread group.

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SamAnne
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Not much time for reading this week except for audio on long drives. But with all the readathons going on My 18 hours, one book finished and posts did rack up 706 points for #teamslaugher #scarathlon ! #offthegridreadathon #cocoturns50 #outstandingoctober #littenlisten #october20in4 #bookspin. @Clwojick

Clwojick 🎉 ☠ 🙌 Awesome! Way to go #TeamSlaughter! 🎉 🎊 👏 3y
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Sargar114
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Mehso-so

I didn‘t realize how little I knew about these murders until I read this. It was a chock full of information about, you guessed it, the trial. If it weren‘t such an interesting subject matter, I might have bailed. It‘s pretty much all info, and no fluff so made it difficult to get through. Read for #Sundaybuddyread and square 20 for #bookspinbingo

TheBookHippie We worked for this one ! 3y
TheAromaofBooks I've seen a lot of people wrestling with this one!! Great work making it through!! 3y
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TheBookHippie
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The Verdict discussion next SUNDAY. If you‘ve made it this far! 🤣✌🏻🤯 if you‘ve been following or reading along feel free to join in.

Then a week off (TIME CHANGE FOR SOME OF US)

Then our NOVEMBER #SUNDAYBUDDYREAD starts on the 8th!

Everyone Welcome 🤍✌🏻

Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick I'm back in the office full time so I'm only about 2 days into the trial. Maybe I'll get caught up for the verdict reveal. 🤞 3y
TheBookHippie @Kelly_the_Bookish_Sidekick 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻 3y
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kspenmoll
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#circumstantialevidence

Jennings defended Lizzie Borden staring that all “evidence” produced by the prosecution was “ circumstantial.”
Behind on my reading but still finding the book fascinating!

TheBookHippie I have learned a ton! I look at it all differently now. 3y
AmyG I love the wild mustaches on the men. Seemd it was quite the fashion. And I agree with what you wrote. I think if it was today and with forensics...we would know who killed them and if it really was Lizzie. 3y
Sargar114 I think you‘re right @AmyG 3y
kspenmoll @AmyG I too have thoroughly enjoyed the photos of varied mustaches on the men. All the photos in the book add so much to the story. 3y
AmyG I like how the book would describe one of these men as “good looking” with a crazy mustache- and I would think...what? 😳🤣 3y
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TheBookHippie
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#SUNDAYBUDDYREAD Final thoughts

NOT GUILTY..
did you always think Lizzie was declared guilty ?
Do you think she was?

Bravo if you‘ve made it this far!

I feel like I‘ve been in class!

I plan to finish the last part today .

If you‘re still here thank you 🤍🤍🤯WHEW!

I learned a ton!

She chose to stay?!

Hooked_on_books I always assumed based on the rhyme that she‘d been found guilty and was guilty. After I read this book, I realized there was no physical evidence to tie her to the crime (forget the clothes, even, how would she have gotten all the blood out of her hair? That‘s really hard to do!), and therefore I believe her to be innocent. 3y
TheBookHippie @Hooked_on_books I feel exactly the same ! 3y
AmyG @Hooked_on_books Yes. Exactly. 3y
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Sargar114 I‘m like @Hooked_on_books based on the rhymes I had assumed she‘d been found guilty. After reading this I absolutely understand why she is not guilty and glad that was the verdict. However, with some of the circumstances I feel like there is some more involvement but no way to prove or know I guess. I‘m not surprised she stayed, that was her home and really all she knew 3y
Sargar114 Fascinating subject but wouldn‘t necessarily en “enjoyable” read 3y
mollyrotondo Well I knew she was found not guilty because I studied this case in college. But I still believe she is guilty but since the case was handled so badly there is no reason the jury should have come to any other conclusion. The prosecution put on a terrible case. 3y
mrp27 All very fascinating, just very dry and dense. I'll probably finish today too. I've always assumed she was guilty because of the notoriety of the murders. The book hasn't changed my mind but it has definitely made me think and question. 3y
mollyrotondo I also want to point out that the rumor I mentioned last week about some people theorizing that she performed the murders while naked was mentioned on page 243 of the paperback. It was dismissed as a “peculiarly French” theory 🤣 3y
TheBookHippie @mollyrotondo being part French I totally agree 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤷🏽‍♀️ 3y
mollyrotondo @TheBookHippie 😂 I find those little tidbits sooo wonderful! We will never know what happened but all these little things said and thought at the time are way more insightful 3y
TheBookHippie @mollyrotondo oh I so agree -it all fascinates me. 3y
GingerAntics I never thought she did it. They needed to find the killer. They didn‘t like Lizzie, so they took what they could. You already know who I think did it. 3y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics your theory is plausible too! I don‘t think it‘s Lizzie but I never did. 3y
GingerAntics @Hooked_on_books never thought of the HAIR!!! That would be a PAIN!!! And her hair would have been wet. No one mentioned her hair being wet. In fact, they mentioned Bridget having cleaned the windows half the morning and her hair was DRY?! Where was the sweat? I‘ve washed windows by hand and ended up with water all over me. Come on. 3y
vlwelser Thank you for doing all of this. 3y
Sargar114 @mollyrotondo “peculiarly French” made me giggle too 😂🤣😂🤣 3y
Hooked_on_books @GingerAntics Plus, with the gap in time between the two murders, the blood in her hair would have dried, then more blood would be layered on top of it! No way that‘s coming out easily. 3y
GingerAntics @Hooked_on_books EXACTLY!!! If (and I‘m saying if) she could have gotten it out of her hair before his blood stopped dripping, she would have been SOAKED!!! Her hair, especially, would have been drenched. No one said anything about her or her hair being wet, fresh from a bath, anything. There‘s just no way. Now, a butcher probably has some mad skills removing blood efficiently. Just saying. (edited) 3y
GingerAntics @Sargar114 this is a REALLY good point about her hair by @Hooked_on_books. There‘s no way she had time to get blood out of her hair (once after her father‘s death or twice after each death) and not having everyone notice she‘d just bathed. 3y
Hooked_on_books @GingerAntics Mad skills 😂 3y
GingerAntics @Hooked_on_books mad cleaver killer skills!!! 🤣😂🤣 3y
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