Welcome to our very first book club meeting! The meeting will officially begin on this post at 7pm EST, but I know that might not work with some of you. Please feel free to comment on here at ANY time! Here's most of what we'll be covering tonight & our next meeting will be Monday, June 27th!
Yossarian Are we only discussing the first half? Which chapters? 10y
giveitupforlentmom Jame's outcome totally was predictable. Their reaction was different. Her reaction was so calculated and ready. 10y
brittnaypozen @Yossarian through 14. Basically parts one & two! 10y
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brittnaypozen I just want to start off by thanking everyone who's apart of this tonight. The amount of love and support from you guys has been so overwhelming. I'm thrilled to be apart of this community with you all and look forward to reading with you 10y
brittnaypozen I completely agree! I genuinely feel bad for James though. Yes, he was disgusting & weird & a cheater, but I can't help but feel bad about the way he died(was murdered). 10y
brittnaypozen Judith really didn't show any remorse. To think nothing of just leaving his body there after all those weeks getting to know him and allowing him to buy you anything and everything was so cold. @giveitupforlentmom 10y
Beckys_Books I'm working midnight a this week and will miss the discussion! But, I have read the book and have mixed feelings about it. Judith's attitude towards sex and violence is unique for the typical female character. I did like that the author told the story with a female main character. 10y
Yossarian Chapter 9 starts, "It might sound funny, but I knew there was something wrong when James didn't appear for lunch." Not "funny"! He was obviously dead, and it is odd that she finds it surprising that you'd expect something wrong with an unhealthy guy who doesn't get up for lunch. 10y
Jessicav I think if Judith had been male, I would actually hate her more. I am cutting her a lot of slack and I think I'm judging her less than I would if she was some guy sleeping his way through Europe. Either way, I'm finding it hard to care too much about anything. 10y
catatonic1242 My first impression of Judith's character was that she was a commoner wrapped in pretension. She thinks herself above all of it, but really, she's deeper in the mire than anyone. 10y
brittnaypozen @Yossarian agreed, especially after slipping him God knows how many pills the night before 10y
Jessicav @Yossarian Haha there were so many things like this in the book that you captured over the last week or two. I think it's really taken away from the plot of the story for me - the writing has to be good. Period. And in this book, it's just not there. 10y
brittnaypozen I find Judith to be such an unlikable character. She's so conceited and vain; I can't see myself ever relating with her. 10y
catatonic1242 The sex scenes were, to my mind, the kind of creepy housewife porn that made 50 Shades to popular. I couldn't even figure out what she was describing in some of them, and I felt like she was using sex as a shortcut for characterization. 10y
Jessicav When I started this book, I didn't know it was the first in a planned series, so I was just hoping to finish it. Like I said, I don't really feel invested in the story at all, so for the second half, all I can hope for is a quick read. Because I will finish it. 10y
TheWellReadOwl I wanted this to be a feminist novel where the protagonist gets to behave as badly as male protagonists are allowed to behave (think American Psycho). But the author never rises above the bad behavior and she never upsets the existing power imbalance. So Judith is just a bad actor without depth. 10y
[DELETED] 3216391035 I think chapter 9 was when I bailed... Her sudden "take charge" attitude with respect to James' death & how they should proceed seemed at odds with how she conducted herself at the auction house, where she seemed afraid to assert herself. 10y
MyBookLife I'm only at chapter 12, so maybe this is explained later, but I don't get why they had to run and hide. Couldn't they just have said that he took the drugs on his own will? 10y
Jessicav @catatonic1242 YES. This is a thing that happens! I don't shy away from sex in books at all. It bothers me when the author doesn't go there when it's clear that they should. But I think in this book it's a writing cheat that is being used to develop character instead of actually developing it. 10y
Yossarian Is the Lone Ranger anti-racist because Tonto is a "good Indian"? (The other thousand over the ridge are still evil.) you can debate whether Judith is a feminist hero, but I think that either way, she's surrounded by sexist stereotypes of female social climbers, airheads, and "catty bitches." 10y
brittnaypozen I think the sex scenes are so random. Besides Hilton's need to point out how proficient she is when it comes to designer labels and famous artists, it seems as though she's also pushing this, "look at me, I'm so sexually open" agenda. The lady doth protest too much, methinks. 10y
catatonic1242 I wouldn't call this feminist by any stretch. Women can be sociopaths, too - we already knew that, both from life and through much better works of literature. Judith does what is expected of women - she chases the money, the lifestyle, and she lets her emotions (RAGE) guide her. 10y
[DELETED] 3216391035 @brittnaypozen agreed! 10y
Jessicav @MyBookLife @Basia I agree with both of your points. This all felt so contrived and just a way to get Judith on her own roaming Europe. 10y
brittnaypozen @Basia exactly! She was so invested in figuring out if a painting was real or not, because "it's the right thing to do" and than she goes and murders someone & leaves him in a hotel room for a maid to find 10y
MissSarahLou @TheWellReadOwl I agree with your analysis of Judith. She is unlikable, and not in the "love to hate her" way. I feel like so much more could have been done with the character and it all fell a little flat for me. 10y
catatonic1242 @Jessicav So much yes. I just wanted to hurry up and finish it so I could read something better. 10y
brittnaypozen @MyBookLife that's true, I don't think they're as smart as they think they are 10y
Jessicav I'm not sure where all the feminist support comes from. Judith feels uncomfortable in her own abilities and is constantly trying to embody the gold digger lifestyle. Having a lot of sex and murdering people doesn't make your character a feminist role model. 10y
catatonic1242 @brittnaypozen Yes! I agree - it's so forced that it comes off as fake - "Look at me, I wear designer labels but I'm so above it all. Look at me, I enjoy sex!" Women enjoying sex stopped being novel *way* before this book. It's not interesting, it's not new. 10y
MyBookLife @catatonic1242 Couldn't agree more!! What is feminist about Judith? All I know about her is that she thinks that brands and money are everything. I don't have any feelings invested in her. Or anyone else in the book for that matter... 10y
brittnaypozen I don't understand how this could be regarded as a feminist work either. All she's doing is pretending to be stupid and mooching off men left and right. What, you think you're a feminist because you're manipulating them? No honey, you basically need them for survival right now. 10y
Yossarian @catatonic1242 I think the sex scenes demonstrated the depth of her need and lack of fulfillment. She couldn't be satisfied by just one man, just lim she couldn't be satisfied with just a middle class life. 10y
brittnaypozen @catatonic1242 I think that's really what it boils down to!! She's acting like sex is this new thing 10y
brittnaypozen What was up with that party? I understand what Hilton is trying to do, I think. She's trying to say, "Hey, this would be ok if the main character was a male. You're only bothered by everything because it's a female.", but I really don't agree with that perspective 10y
brittnaypozen I still think I would find it unusual if a male character went to an orgy after a bad day at work. I would still be weirded out if a man had sex with a disgusting "sugar mama" and than slipped her pills and killed her. 10y
catatonic1242 @Yossarian It could be parsed that way. But the lesbian sex scene felt so tacky and random to me that I couldn't ascribe motive to it other than Hilton thinking, "This needs a sex scene right here!" It didn't feel organic or original - it felt like a response to an editor asking, "where's the sex?" 10y
Jessicav @catatonic1242 I think you've hit on something there. This is a summer bestseller. Publishers want fast paced sexy thrillers that they can sell as beach reads and this really fits the bill if you just read the blurb. But so much of the content just feels gratuitous. 10y
MyBookLife @Jessicav If anything I think this book is the opposite of feminism, I feel the book is actually stigmatizing the stereotypes. Judith is like 'every guy thinks girls like to shop' well, that is all that she thinks about!? 10y
Jessicav @MyBookLife Exactly. I completely agree. 10y
brittnaypozen Going into the second half, I'm not too enthusiastic. I feel like the book is dragging on and nothing is really going on. I mean yeah there's a murder and a mystery painting scandal etc, but most of her time is spent lounging around being taken care of 10y
brittnaypozen I don't know how they're making this into a trilogy 10y
Yossarian @catatonic1242 I agree that it was largely gratuitous. I was just trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. 10y
catatonic1242 @Jessicav It does feel gratuitous! And I also don't shy away from sex in literature; however, it really did just feel so... "Let's show them an empowered woman who is the master of her own destiny/sex life," when Judith is, in fact, nothing of the sort. 10y
MyBookLife @brittnaypozen I don't think I would have looked at that scene any differently if it was a man! It feels like the whole book is to prove that NOW you react BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN. No, now I react because this is bad writing.. 10y
catatonic1242 @Yossarian I'm just not that generous! 😉 10y
Demanda This is going outside the text, but has anyone looked up pics of L.S. Hilton? They are all silly and sexual. I usually don't give a damn about what an author looks like, but her photo on the dust jacket intrigued me. I can't help but wonder if she doesn't see herself as a bit of a Judith. Thoughts? 10y
brittnaypozen @MyBookLife lol yes exactly!! 10y
MyBookLife That painting thing. I mean. What's the scandal? That it is a fake or what? I need more! 10y
brittnaypozen @Demanda I 100% agree. I don't think Judith is just some character she made up. I think it's how she perceives herself. 10y
catatonic1242 @MyBookLife "...because this is bad writing." So. Much. Word. I almost kind of feel dared to criticize it, because doing so makes me a "bad feminist," but dude. So bad! One only needs to look at the documentation @Yossarian provided for proof of the writing quality. 10y
Jessicav @MyBookLife The painting was the biggest draw for me, and turns out that it doesn't even matter really. Such a disappointment. 10y
MyBookLife @Demanda Umpf, now I don't want to finish it.... 10y
brittnaypozen @MyBookLife I literally have no idea. It keeps going back and forth! One second it's fake the next it's real & now she's stealing it? It's just too much 10y
catatonic1242 @MyBookLife I finished the book this afternoon and I still have NO IDEA what the painting plot was about. 10y
brittnaypozen Did anyone else here actually read 50 shades of gray? 10y
MyBookLife @catatonic1242 Exactly!! I also have to say that if it weren't for @Yossarian s blurbs this week I would not have kept reading! 10y
Demanda @MyBookLife haha I know what you mean, but I gotta say that actually made the reading a bit more interesting for me! It's a story, but it's also an insight into a weirdo's fantasy life haha. 10y
Yossarian @MyBookLife I am also unclear whether the Stubbs was real or not, and how the "scam" was supposed to work. 10y
MyBookLife Just a little sidenote. When Jan asks her if she knows the difference between male and female sea urchins and it says "oddly, I didn't" OMG ?? 10y
MyBookLife This book and it's characters have no depth. The only explanation I have yet to why Judith is who she is is that her mother drank. It felt... cheap. Just a page. They took our fridge. Okay. So!? 10y
brittnaypozen @MyBookLife I laughed at that too! As if that was common knowledge 10y
TheWellReadOwl @sarahA She was so flat because, goodness, the writing was so bad. 😖 10y
MyBookLife @brittnaypozen As if she knows everything about anything, but oddly, she didn't know this. Sigh! 10y
brittnaypozen I started hating Judith when she said she liked to pour champagne into her Louboutins. As if a $1000 pair of shoes is nothing to her. So pretentious 10y
MyBookLife Are we supposed to like Judith? 10y
catatonic1242 @MyBookLife And it's such a cliche reason for Judith to be a social climber/gold digger. It was a cliche even when it was Scarlet O'Hara's motivation. "As God as my witness, my refrigerator will never be repoed again!" 10y
MyBookLife @brittnaypozen Was that meant to impress us as readers? 10y
brittnaypozen @MyBookLife exactly, it was so not relatable. I guess she thought that's the life her readers dream of 10y
MyBookLife @catatonic1242 Hahaha! Yes!! But with Scarlet O'Hara I at least cared. And knew where she came from. It was the moment she started controlling her own life. THAT is feminism!! 10y
brittnaypozen @catatonic1242 I totally agree! That whole one paragraph attempting to explain everything was so contrived 10y
Jessicav @brittnaypozen this was such a problem for me. If she had been the same character, but was focused solely on the painting and really making it in her profession, I might have been all over this book. But I just don't care about the things she cares about. 10y
brittnaypozen @TheWellReadOwl the writing seriously is so bad! 10y
brittnaypozen @Jessicav definitely. Hilton focused on all the wrong things 10y
[DELETED] 3216391035 @MyBookLife well said re:feminism! 10y
brittnaypozen @MyBookLife "she seems to be running out of positions" lol that was great. She should not be admitting that this is who she really is 10y
TheWellReadOwl @MyBookLife YES! Great point about Scarlett O'Hara. She took power back for herself, to make her own destiny. I don't think Judith is smart enough to even think in those terms. 10y
Yossarian @MyBookLife That article confirms many of the thoughts I've been having. 10y
MyBookLife @brittnaypozen Isn't it fantastic!? Also, how does James look? Besides that he is fat. How does anyone in this book look? All I know is what they're wearing. "Two pairs of chunky Nikes appeared, followed by Levi'd legs and garish Polo shirts with huge logos" 10y
sprainedbrain @MyBookLife I love that review! It seems an insult to feminism to apply the word to this book. Judith is disgusting and completely unsympathetic as a character, and the writing is just so bad. 10y
MyBookLife @Yossarian Me too!! I don't think I've ever read a review I could agree more on. 10y
Yossarian I was curious why she made Steve completely asexual. It was an odd choice in a sexually charged book. 10y
MyBookLife @TheWellReadOwl Thank you :) Well Scarlet wasn't wearing any designer clothes or hasn't been in any hello magazines lately, so Judith probably don't know who she is. 10y
MyBookLife @Yossarian Good question! And if there is a movie, will he be asexual in that? 10y
giveitupforlentmom I heard this was a series??? 10y
Demanda One thing I don't get is the title... Can anyone fill me in? 10y
giveitupforlentmom I just didn't understand the arc on the character. As the book goes on its completely confusing on how she becomes this force, very knowledgable about things she shouldn't know. Unbelievable 10y
Jessicav @Demanda I think it's meant to be a lady version of maestro. As in, she's controlling everything around her like a symphony orchestra. 10y
giveitupforlentmom Master? But feminine form? 10y
brittnaypozen @MyBookLife yes! It seems like everyone aside from her is overweight and disgusting 10y
brittnaypozen @Jessicav @Demanda I completely agree with that assessment. I think the U.S. cover is supposed to be a conductors baton 10y
brittnaypozen @Yossarian I thought that was an odd choice too. The movie will probably initiate sex between them though 10y
Yossarian @MyBookLife @brittnaypozen I think they would leave him asexual so there's an excuse for Jan. Everyone here is extreme -- not overweight but extremely obese. Not a low sex drive, but asexual. 10y
MyBookLife @Yossarian Does she need an excuse for Jan? You're right! Not rich, extremely rich. Nothing grey here.. 10y
brittnaypozen @Yossarian that's true, Jan is probably the sex scene people will want to see most. Hopefully they would add more depth to his character 10y
Yossarian @brittnaypozen Tactilely, the red line on my cover is an indention. I see it more as the slashing wound of a stiletto heal. 10y
Demanda @Jessicav @brittnaypozen aaahhh thanks guys 10y
[DELETED] 3558467437 Great discussion. I am sorry to have missed it. 10y
Reese_Pearly.Pages I don't care for Judith as a character- The sex scenes didn't bother me but they felt out of place. In fact, a lot of things feel out of place! The writing doesn't flow well for me. The events don't really have a connection. If Judith were a male I would probably abandon this book. 10y
steph_hashes_tags So late for book club (sorry, on vacation and Litsy wasn't working!) but I agree @catatonic1242 about Judith - pretentious commoner who is way too obsessed with status. The fact that she cares about status so much is the dead giveaway she doesn't belong. 10y
steph_hashes_tags @Reese_Pearly.Pages Agreed re: the sex scenes. It feels gratuitous and kind of pointless, like the book-sex version of the cutaways to random scenes that have nothing to do with the plot in Family Guy. 10y
QueenAnne You know, this had all the "ingredients" for a fantastic female serial killer book. Yet some people make a fantastic lasagna, and some turn those same ingredients into a mushy mess. Let's just say, Hilton could use some cooking lessons. I make a killer lasagna?? would've loved to tune this book! 10y
QueenAnne Also the only reason I almost finished this book was our bookclub, wrestled through the book because I was still love drunk from finding so many kindred spirits. Looking forward to next month's read 😍😍 10y
Reese_Pearly.Pages I actually saw this displayed on the New Science Fiction shelf at B&N... And then I said "?... But why?? What???? Who did this?!" 10y
MyBookLife @brittnaypozen Is there going to be a discussion about the second part of the book? When? 10y
jpmcwisemorgan Hi! I didn't read this one because not only was I busy packing, and then moving, but so many people seemed to think it was a stinker. I wanted to check on whether or not we were continuing with the next book? 9y
jlondon1963 I was glad I had my earbuds in when the very detailed sex scenes were read. I may have to change my review from so so to recommend for those who enjoyed Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. Not for the faint of heart. Judith begins to slide easily into control and no longer needing others for her outcome 9y
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